Shaken up by off lead dogs.

[itsmellslikepopcarn]

More of a moan than anything but WHY do people let their dogs off lead when they have no recall?

Thought we’d take 13 week old puppy on his first trip to a local country park to do some training and a nice walk, along with 4 year old dog.

Older dog has fantastic recall (too anxious to go too far from me!) but is reactive so doesn’t go off lead unless there is no-one around. The second I spot people he immediately goes back on, which happened today.

Two large chocolate labs off in the distance so back on the lead he goes. They’re easily 50 feet away if not more, but start to mosey on over, owners call them back but don’t put them on a lead. Again, they start coming over, bounding over at this point.

Ive got my dog as tight as possible at this point while he’s snapping and snarling at these two who will not respond to their owners. They eventually wander over, not quickly, and get them to come away. My partner says “they shouldn’t be off lead if you can’t control them” at which point the male owner shouts “shut the fuck up!” and turns back towards us, shouting that our dog should be muzzled. There would have been zero issue if his dogs weren’t off lead, my dog was walking along fine ages away until they bounded over, which I explained and he said they were puppies - again no excuse, our puppy isn’t off lead yet because he won’t come back! Also they looked pretty full grown to me.

I wish people would realise the impact things like this can have on anxious dogs. He’s generally pretty good at ignoring on lead dogs (I put him into a sit with chicken until they pass) but there’s nothing he or I can do in that situation. He’s been getting so much better with his reactivity in general and I fear this has set him back down 😔

And your understanding of dog behaviour is very limited @Leopardchange

I have a wall full of rosettes for winning dog shows and ring craft. So I don't think it is. My dogs behaviour is always exemplary because I understand and work with their natural behaviours.

I carry a spare slip lead. If I can lasso your dog, walk it though the woods to the playing field and meet the dog warden, you're in big shit.

Young dogs like to play mindlessly off lead, older dogs don't. Please learn to control your dog and the the odd occasion where it goes wrong, run after your dog and sort it plus excessive grovelling.

One day your dog will be mature and you will be peeved with inexperienced owners failing young dogs.

Don’t think anyone is excusing off lead, unruly dogs, myself included.

I rarely experience unruly off lead dogs, but I spend time talking to new dog owners before allowing interaction.

Reactivity as a rescue dog is sad and why I dislike owners not recognising this. Reactivity from not allowing your dog from a puppy to interact and learn body language isn’t helpful for anyone.

Well said @lightinthebox

@Leopardchange is there another word for cross packing? I’ve googled it, along with ‘cross packing training’ and ‘cross packing dog’ and nothing comes up apart from generic training companies, dog bags and travel advice!

Really? Because it feels like it.

It doesn't matter why a dog is on lead. If it is, your off lead dog shouldn't approach it.

End of discussion.

It's bizarre that anyone is arguing otherwise, especially someone who has lots of rosettes.

Dogs meeting should be consensual between both owners and both dogs.

Reactivity when dogs are owned from puppies is down to not allowing them to interact. We teach recall, obedience etc. Dogs need social interaction with other dogs to learn body language.

I'm not sure I agree with this from a reactivity point of view.. we've got three dogs, walk them all off lead in open spaces normally, all have great recall, friendly, happy dogs that keep themselves to our little pack. One of ours runs and runs for his ball, that's all he's interested in, will actively ignore all other dogs when out. We all have dogs in our wider family, never had any issues of aggression/dominance BUT around 2 years ago we had a spate of 'incidents' exactly as OP describes, the first of which we were minding our own business, walking along and a dog comes running over and starts jumping around and on my dog, mine's moving away from it trying to get back to me with his ball, but it was persistent and the owner was taking all the godamn day to get over to us, when the dog tried to mount mine, he went apeshit, dropped his ball and went for the other dog, no injuries but it was a severe enough telling off that the dog squealed and ran away.

It happens on average once every couple/three weeks now, I know exactly which dogs will do it from their body language and the way they run over, mine will only tolerate so much unwanted attention/domination while growling and moving away, then he'll snap so I had to start shouting to these types of owners "you better get your dog otherwise he'll have him". Most seem to take that warning very seriously and work to get their dog back, in which case I do everything I can to stop my dog losing his rag, which includes holding THEIR dog sometimes so mine can safely move away from it, the ones that don't give a shit I let nature take it's course, any owners that then challenge me over it get a round of fucks for not controlling their dogs better.

I've never had a problem with dogs approaching us off lead, but a lot of dogs now seem either stupid or not trained to the point where they will persistently chase, jump on or harass a dog that is actively moving away from them or even growling at them, they just don't seem to 'get' the body language at all?

I think there is purposeful misunderstanding of what I’m saying. Off lead dogs with no recall are dangerous as well as a nuisance.

Im talking about dog socialisation from a young age. I read on here that owners don’t allow interaction and also have reactive dogs. Where I am we don’t have reactive dogs, owners talk to each other, train and allow supervised interaction and play. There’s one dog owner everyone complains about as their dog has no recall.

Not allowing dogs to learn from a young age social interaction from older dogs is a sure way to have a reactive dog. They can’t learn this from us because, well, we’re not dogs!

Allowing your dog to have unlimited interactions with other dogs, regardless of the circumstances, is one sure way of getting a reactive dog too.

The key with socialisation is the dog has to learn social cues, and when it'd appropriate and when it's not, ie when it needs to focus on humans. You don't get this if your dog is used to running off to dogs in parks and having a play. And guess what, one day it will meet a dog that doesn't want to play.

That's because owners with off lead dogs don't have an aggressive dog like yours.
The owner was wrong to swear at you and I agree recall is important but you can't expect people to put their dogs on leads all the time just because you don't want to muzzle your dog.
For owners of friendly sociable dogs it's annoying to have to put them on a lead for snappy aggressive dogs who's owners won't muzzle them in public!

I keep getting harassed by off the lead dogs when I'm on my horse out hacking on bridlepaths. I think it's really irresponsible as it's so dangerous (horses are flight animals by nature) -dogs should not be off the lead when they might encounter other animals. The owners often say 'don't worry he likes horses' and I think 'that's not really the point!'

Mine wasn't socialised as a puppy. He had a shit start to life and I got him at approx 18 months old.

He can socialise with other dogs. He lives with other dogs. I've fostered other dogs since adopting him.

When I can control the introduction and keep things calm, he is fine. When a random dog runs up and starting jumping on his back, he doesn't like it.

Lately there has been teenagers walking massive breed dogs around here. Off lead even near the road.

So we just choose the easy life now and keep to quiet places and times when no one else is about.

@Hmmmbetterchangethis you're right. I had a search and can't find anything online either. It's basically how two packs of wolves would move through each others territory without getting in each others space. They would keep moving and basically weave past each other so they could pick up each others scent but still respect each others space.

One thing I notice owners with reactive dogs often do is stand rigid in one place, which really confuses both packs.

Standing rigid like that says to the reactive dog, my only course of action is to fight. For the inquisitive dog, it will be an invitation to come and investigate the odd rigid stance.

It's always been common dog walking etiquette that if you have your dog off lead, you don't let it approach dogs that are ON lead.

If your dog doesn't have good enough recall to not approach other dogs uninvited, fair enough, some don't, but then you should certainly be prepared put it on a lead when passing other on lead dogs, it's just common courtesy.

blaming the other owner for an interaction that you've caused through your own failings as a dog owner is ridiculous.

Your dog should never be near enough to another dog to know whether or not the other dog needs a muzzle.

Dogs are allowed to not consent to meeting your dog.

Reactive dogs should be muzzled and kept on a tight lead in public at all times. Wails of 'that's not fair! She's a gentle dog really! It's everyone else's fault!' means absolutely nothing.

Ideally reactive dogs wouldn't be a thing at all but people insist on keeping them at the detriment to everybody else. Miserable dogs on medication seem to be preferred than kindly putting a unfit for society dog down.

“For owners of friendly sociable dogs it's annoying to have to put them on a lead”

fine. Have them under control instead. Recall them and get them to walk to heel instead of putting them on the lead.

The law says you should have your dog under control. The owner with the dog on a lead (even if anxious or reactive) does have their dog under control.

Dogs should be under control ie on a lead or excellent recall always within sight. That is the law. Then the dog reactive dogs wouldn't react would they? Unless they are child reactive in which case pts immediately.

The law says you should have your dog under control. The owner with the dog on a lead (even if anxious or reactive) does have their dog under control.

Not always. My dog was attacked by a dog on a lead once as we walked past on a narrow path with her at my heel.

@Leopardchange thats great, thanks.

I’ve been standing still and treating my dog to keep him calm/create a positive association and to allow the other dog to pass, but often the dog approaches us, making my dog worse!
Owner twittering at me about how they are friendly, or ignoring their dog altogether!

I’ll try keeping moving in a wide arc around them when there’s space.

Yes agree any dog that can't be recalled is a danger to society and should be put down, as should any that has bitten or attacked another dog or person.

I’ve had mine on lead, walking near another on lead dog. Other dog has snarled and tried to bite mine. Being on lead doesn’t make you the responsible owner, muzzle training does.

Dogs need to be able to run especially large dogs I'm with the lab owner on this one.
You're also pouring your fears onto your puppy I know it's small but just let the pup be around other dogs without immediate pick up

Another thing please don't confront people like this you know how many people are crazy in this world. He told you to f off but what if he had a knife or something or wanted to beat your partner.