dog disappointment/impact on family - help me

[icechip]

Namechanged.

Feeling so upset and anxious right now. Have a 3 year old dog - getting her was totally driven by me, did my research, spent time considering breeds etc etc. A perfect litter came up just before we went into lockdown, so we went for it - and naively I thought this would be fine - but I do wonder if some of the issues we currently face are a result of lack of proper socialisation early on. 😞

Anyway, as ddog has matured, she has become increasingly nervy towards strangers. She is amazingly affectionate and loving towards us and people that she knows....when I talk to friends about this problem, they honestly don't believe me because they just know her as a hyper-friendly dog - she's always so happy and waggy around them.

But over the past year, she's become much more guardy at the door - growling at strangers and delivery men. She's also - on a couple of occasions over the past year - snapped at people who've taken her by surprise by stroking her...we were just out on a walk with her and she snapped at a waiter in a cafe - he was holding a big tray and I think it freaked her out as he reached for her head. There always seems to be some kind of 'reason' when she gets angsty - but I just feel absolutely distraught about this. Grew up with bomb-proof dogs so it's a total shock. She's not the dog I wanted or expected for our family - and the thought of another 10plus years being on edge on every walk or whenever people come to the door fills me with absolute dread, to be frank.

What's also challenging is that DH (who does the lion's share of walks) is absolutely in love with her and refuses to think she needs any kind of further training or help - and in a way, I'm not sure you can train out personality if this is just her. He thinks she's just a dog being a dog, and if she gets snappy or growly then there is a reason for that and I need to stop worrying and suck it up, essentially. It sounds ridiculous but it's actually affecting our marriage because I feel he totally dismisses my concerns and feelings, and he thinks I'm being an uptight killjoy who complains about the dog. Our kids love her.

If you've got this far, I'd appreciate any advice or thoughts. Either on accepting that dog you wanted isn't the dog you got (which is where I am I think) or indeed, stories of dogs that chilled out with age. I'm actually getting a bit tearful writing this as it just isn't how I thought it would be.

firstly I’d stop taking her to cafes, a lot of “dog friendly” cafes/pubs are completely overstimulating for dogs. If she’s nervous of strangers she’s probably so over threshold there it’s a disaster waiting to happen.

Secondly, sod what your DH says and get a behaviourist. You have a serious bite risk on your hands

Also go to the vet and get an MOT. It may be pain related

My first thought was she needs to be checked by the vet.

Then you could either train her yourself or hire a trainer. Finally if you are scared she will snap while out you could put a muzzle on her.

Not a dog owner, but isn't it like this with children too? None of mine are the perfect personalities I expected to have ( but then neither am I!) and I still love them regardless and appreciate their different qualities. Appreciate there's some work to do over your dog's anxiety, but she's an established member of the family now and would possibly be freeing to to work with and appreciate her good points, instead of grieving for a phantom.perfect dog

I think you need to see her anxiety as a “condition” rather than a flaw in her personality. I assume you would automatically seek help for medical conditions and behavioural problems are no different. You do need to put the work in with a behaviourist though, there are rarely quick fixes.

You need to avoid anxiety triggers (such as cafes, places where random people may try to stroke her, delivery people etc) until you have done this, both for her benefit and to keep others safe.

Anxiety is stressful for the dog too so I don’t think it’s the right thing just to accept this is life for her now without doing something about it.

First get her vet checked and then secondly she needs professional help ie a behaviourist but this will require daily training and work by the whole family. Make sure any behaviourist is ABTC or IMDT qualified as anyone cam do an online course and call themselves a behaviourist! This won't get better on its own/with time.

@Lastqueenofscotland2 and @Nousernamesleftatall - Yes. Weirdly she seems totally fine with places that she 'knows' - there's a pub that DH takes her to regularly and she always seems totally happy there. It's almost like people or places that she KNOWS are a breeze to her, but anything unfamiliar is a risk.

Behaviourist/trainer - I am open to this but just not sure how much they would be able to help, given the issue is with unfamiliar people and places. Is it just we shouldn't ever risk the unfamiliar and accept that?

Vet - I am not sure she's in pain as she has been at the vet for a couple of different things over this period of time. Sadly (and perhaps unsurprisingly given how she's turning out to be) she was always ok with the vet UNTIL she had her anal glands drained 😖and hated it. Next time we went she got nervous as soon as we saw the outside of the building and they had to muzzle her. It's like she has this SUPER memory. She is half collie and learns things very fast.

Collies/part bred are prone to this and ideally need a job to do. They are a working breed and therefore need breed appropriate outlets for their natural instincts otherwise you get unwanted behaviour issues.
As another PP says, you need to treat this as a condition and get professional help otherwise it will gradually get worse. You owe it to your dog to help her.
Vet should always be first port of calleigh changes in behaviour and they usually can link you up with a clinical behaviourist

@SpringSummerDreamer - in some ways I totally agree with you, we don't expect our kids to be perfectly behaved all the time and why should it be the same with pets? But if this is just her, and we manage it, I feel like I need help in moving past the sorrow that we just don't have the dog I THOUGHT we would have, if that makes sense. I stupidly thought because I grew up with dogs, I knew how to train them and that it was all fairly straightforward.

has anyone experienced similar?

Although not a biter my SIL has a harness that says 'nervous' this is a good indicator for people when out and about not to touch.

It's absolutely not too late to change a dogs behaviour. I would absolutely go down this route even if others don't think it's a problem. We would all like to think our dogs wouldn't bite anyone but look how many times we see things go so wrong and that's the ones that you hear about.

Do it for the sake of your family and your lovely dog 🐕

Stop people touching her. She is telling you she hates it. You can get yellow bibs and leads saying nervous.

Contact this fb group they are really helpful
Dog Training Advice and Support | Facebook

I’d stop people touching her while she’s out and about. Why should she have to put up with that? I’m not surprised she’s getting snappy. Taker her to the vet for a check up to make sure she’s not in pain anywhere. If she doesn’t like being in busy places with lots of people then you’ll have to stop taking her for the meantime.

have a look on dog training advice and support Facebook group for ways to manage the behaviour. Ultimately as disappointing as it is for you, you may have to work around the dog rather than expecting her to fit in with you

Ah so you have a part collie, and the behaviour you describe is exactly what my full collie boy is like. The park bench had been moved at the weekend and he went into full on stalking mode - how dare someone move the bench! Routine is key for him, hes really anxious when meeting new people or going to new places...unless its a beach and then hes all in. I have noticed that sniffing is his thing to calm him down....I would love to take him to a cafe or pub but its just too far out of his comfort zone. As for the vets, can you do baby steps ie go to the vets, offer treats and walk away....build a positive association?. We take copious amounts of cheese with us when we go. Also, hes much more responsive to DH than me and 100% he treats us differently.

@twistyizzy - re vet. I am pretty confident that she's not in pain - however, I do wonder if anti-anxiety medication could help her? has anyone faced similar?

In terms of her breeding she is a lurcher - half bearded collie and half greyhound - so not as highly strung as a border collies tend to be. She definitely has some herding tendencies but I'm not sure if her getting snappy is anything to do with not having the right stimulation.

I would be on board with a behaviourist but I have two concerns - one, it seems like quite a broad and complex issue - how to make an anxious dog less anxious - whereas any friends of mine who HAVE used behaviourists have done so to address specific problems (with varying degrees of success). Two, my DH simply doesn't think there is a problem at all. He DOES do the vast majority of her care and thinks she is completely fine. I don't know if he is bullshitting me as it seems utterly peculiar that the isolated incidents of the dog getting reactive happen whilst I'm around 🙄...but apparently that is the case.

@icechip Two, my DH simply doesn't think there is a problem at all. He DOES do the vast majority of her care and thinks she is completely fine. I don't know if he is bullshitting me as it seems utterly peculiar that the isolated incidents of the dog getting reactive happen whilst I'm around 🙄...but apparently that is the case.

I can believe this though, our ddog is totally different with me and DH. Ddog will be dog reactive with me, yet if DH walks him he strolls past....wouldnt believe it until I saw it with my own eyes!. But I get nervous because I know im anticipating him reacting, so he does. Whereas DH just gets a firm grip of the lead and walks straight past, no stopping, crossing the road etc just 'lets go'.

I don't know if he is bullshitting me as it seems utterly peculiar that the isolated incidents of the dog getting reactive happen whilst I'm around 🙄...but apparently that is the case.

It's not unusual for dogs to behave differently with different family members. She may be more protective towards you, or she may feel more secure - so less reactive - when in public with your DH, because she spends more time with him.

The dog breeds you've mentioned she's mixed with are anxiety prone breeds, so some of it will be her personality.

Equally though, you can train coping mechanisms to help her in these situations so she's not as worked up/ knows how to handle it better. She'll need reassurance in new or unfamiliar places, simple things like angling your hips and feet away from a person coming at you, allows your dog to realise it's not a threat etc. A decent trainer or behaviourist will be able to help specifically.

You could also do mat work and build it up in the house where she's comfortable, then take that with you to new places and then she'll have the familiarity of being on her same mat and knowing the routine.

@mrsbitaly @Theskyoutsideisblue - I have considered one of those yellow leads and I think I might use it when me or the teenage kids walk her alone - I know DH would refuse to.

@Ilikewinter - I have considered this for the vet and may look into it. We are in a busy city though and not sure they would necessarily have time for an anxious dog coming into the surgery as part of their training, if you see what i mean?

Also, I worry a little that the 'just stop taking her to busy places' advice is tricky, because if she's so rarely exposed to new situations and people then surely she will just get worse over time?! Obviously I'm not suggesting that we throw her in at the deep end and constantly put her in unknown situations where people touch her, but it's difficult because once she gets to 'know' a person or a place, she couldn't be more calm and affectionate - she does learn quickly...

@sixswans - am not on facebook, is there any other way into that group?

Not meaning to be rude, OP, you're seeing problems with everything anyone suggests. Which rather suggests you are feeling overwhelmed, negative and anxious about all this and it's starting to blinker you a bit.

That's how a behaviourist can really help. The behaviourist is not to fix your dog. It's to fix you - in the nicest possible way. This is especially true if the dog is different with you than with your DH. A behaviourist will be able to tell you what behaviour is normal and suggest ways you can change what you do, to get the best from the dog.

They may even be able to help you open up a bit to possible ways this can be helped, rather than second guessing nothing will work, iyswim?

@Bridgingthefeckingmassivegap - I actually thought lurchers were meant to be quite calm and made really good family dogs? Aware collies are so smart and that in itself can lead to issues if not properly managed, and we have that in the mix (though beardie not border).

We have a collie who sounds similar. She is an obedient delight at home, recall 100% and generally a joy. Doesn’t like new people, hates being told off, ball and routine obsessed. We don’t take her to cafes or pubs, she finds new places overwhelming and stressful. Thankfully she has a dog Walker, a kennel and a doggy daycare that she loves, as well as my in laws, so there are people that she trusts outside the immediate family. She also doesn’t suffer from separation anxiety and quite likes the peace and quiet so we can leave her for a few hours to socialise. At home we have stair gates to keep her separate from visitors she doesn’t know. She will not allow anyone she doesn’t know to touch her!

@FoulFeetSmellSomethingHorrible - sorry, yes I probably am coming across as negative but I just feel so lost with this. It's a struggle because my DH simply refuses to see problems and I know would think a behaviourist would be a nonsensical expense.

How you've put it is a really helpful way of looking at it though, and I will really try to make him get on board with it.

Firstly you have to stop denying you have a problem, a dog that snaps at people, is a scared dog that’s going to bite sooner later.

You need to 100% step up and protect your ddog. Do not let anyone approach her. Do not let other dogs approach her if it disturbs her, it’s up to you to look after her.

you MUST get some sort of professional support with this, or else it will gradually become worse. The sooner the better.

I hear you - about the dog you thought you’d have. Sorry but that’s just life!

I know would think a behaviourist would be a nonsensical expense.

Your insurance may cover part or all of the cost - it's worth checking?