dog disappointment/impact on family - help me

[icechip]

Namechanged.

Feeling so upset and anxious right now. Have a 3 year old dog - getting her was totally driven by me, did my research, spent time considering breeds etc etc. A perfect litter came up just before we went into lockdown, so we went for it - and naively I thought this would be fine - but I do wonder if some of the issues we currently face are a result of lack of proper socialisation early on. 😞

Anyway, as ddog has matured, she has become increasingly nervy towards strangers. She is amazingly affectionate and loving towards us and people that she knows....when I talk to friends about this problem, they honestly don't believe me because they just know her as a hyper-friendly dog - she's always so happy and waggy around them.

But over the past year, she's become much more guardy at the door - growling at strangers and delivery men. She's also - on a couple of occasions over the past year - snapped at people who've taken her by surprise by stroking her...we were just out on a walk with her and she snapped at a waiter in a cafe - he was holding a big tray and I think it freaked her out as he reached for her head. There always seems to be some kind of 'reason' when she gets angsty - but I just feel absolutely distraught about this. Grew up with bomb-proof dogs so it's a total shock. She's not the dog I wanted or expected for our family - and the thought of another 10plus years being on edge on every walk or whenever people come to the door fills me with absolute dread, to be frank.

What's also challenging is that DH (who does the lion's share of walks) is absolutely in love with her and refuses to think she needs any kind of further training or help - and in a way, I'm not sure you can train out personality if this is just her. He thinks she's just a dog being a dog, and if she gets snappy or growly then there is a reason for that and I need to stop worrying and suck it up, essentially. It sounds ridiculous but it's actually affecting our marriage because I feel he totally dismisses my concerns and feelings, and he thinks I'm being an uptight killjoy who complains about the dog. Our kids love her.

If you've got this far, I'd appreciate any advice or thoughts. Either on accepting that dog you wanted isn't the dog you got (which is where I am I think) or indeed, stories of dogs that chilled out with age. I'm actually getting a bit tearful writing this as it just isn't how I thought it would be.

Yes we had a very nervous scared dog who was scared of everyone and everything and started attacking my DH. Before he died I got accused of having such a laid back dog I didn't understand what having a nervous dog was like. She was brilliant

Your dog is now 3 years old. Is it a lockdown dog where it hasn’t been adequately socialised within its environment OP?

This is covered in paragraph one of the OP.

Train your bloody dog!

I have a similar situation with rookiedog and DH OP.
It's primarily his dog, but of course I am involved in things and tend to sort holiday care as I'm the one booking them
Recently had reports from dog walker that he has been a bit barky with other dogs and people and experienced it myself on walks. DH totally dismissive - oh he's fine with me - until eventually I got fed up and reached out to a contact who I knew could recommend a good dog behaviourist.

Turns out she totally thinks it's because DH has been taking dog on runs too long for him and as a result dog has some muscle discomfort. She refused to come out and said we should try no running for a few weeks and see if it sorts it and lo and behold it does seem to be helping.

So it could be that your problem isn't as unique or different as you think. Behaviourists are expensive but if its £200-300 to actually enjoy being with your dog again, then that's money well spent.

Lockdown isn’t an excuse for lack of socialisation within the dogs environment. I was waiting for OP’s reasoning of what “socialisation” means. Many dog owners have no idea about what socialising their puppy means.

OP I know a good London behaviourist I’ll PM you

A good behaviourist/trainer will definitely be able to help you all. We have a rescue dog who is similar but has made so much progress. I know his triggers and this has helped so much. He’s very chilled now, it’s taken time and effort.
Stop putting her in situations she isn’t happy with now, don’t letting strangers stroke her at all! you are making it worse every time you do this. She needs to decompress then start training. With the right help I’m sure you can turn this around.

You need to build a better bond and ensure the dog has confidence in YOU to control the situation.

Agree with many PPs that you need a behaviourist pronto. Lots will do an online session with you before going out with you and making observations.
Also your DH needs to get his head out of his arse and acquaint himself with the Dangerous Dogs Act. It doesn't just apply to specific breeds, and if any dog is 'dangerously out of control' in a public place, it risks being put down. All that needs to happen is for your dog to nip a child & draw blood, the parent freaks out (understandably) and calls the cops.
I don't mean to panic you OP but your H needs to get on board with this to prevent something horrible happening. Not saying it will, but it might.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1991/65/section/3

You are unreasonable to allow your dog to go to the door.
You are unreasonable to allow people to touch her when you know she doesn’t like it.

You need to start advocating for her. Tell people not to touch her. If my dog looks uncomfortable I immediately remove him from the situation. You should not have taken her into that cafe and passively sat there while people touched her. She doesn’t trust you.

@icechip this behaviour is likely to escalate

please read about trigger stacking in dogs and keep her below threshold

please consult with an apbc/asab accredited behaviourist - she’s telling you she’s unhappy and she needs help

Go and see a proper behaviourist. Your dog is telling you she isn't comfortable in these situations and you are ignoring her. You are anxious and stressed in these situations and she knows it - it's a vicious circle. If this continues she may bite. If you want to take your dog to cafes and pubs you need to put in the work and training to get there. It is doable, but not if you ignore the clear behaviours she is displaying.

I understand the disappointment in not getting the dog you hoped for. We got our first dog and I was determined to make sure he would be bomb proof, spent loads of time socialising him and did everything possible to make him as well rounded as possible.

He had a couple of iffy interactions with other dogs and is now very hit and miss with other dogs.

We manage this by lots of focus on us training and getting him to ignore other dogs but it's frustrating not being able to trust him.

I have learnt to accept this and love the dog I have though.

Op your dog actually sounds basically okay, it sounds like you just need to do some stage management ie absolutely no strangers coming up to her and keeping her in a separate room if work men visit.

Can you do some building on your relationship with her? It might be that she's picking up on your anxiety which feeds her anxiety when you're out.

Also been there grieving not having the bomb proof dog I thought so sympathise with you. Have seen a behaviourist, learnt how to manage situations. He's definitely improved but most of all I'm trying really really hard not to compare him. That's the hard part. I'm hoping with consistency and age things improve.

I understand the disappointment in not getting the dog you hoped for. We got our first dog and I was determined to make sure he would be bomb proof, spent loads of time socialising him and did everything possible to make him as well rounded as possible.
He had a couple of iffy interactions with other dogs and is now very hit and miss with other dogs.
We manage this by lots of focus on us training and getting him to ignore other dogs but it's frustrating not being able to trust him.

I think new owners are sold a lie. There is no such thing as a bomb-proof or non-reactive dog. All dogs will potentially react aggressively if they feel threatened. Of course, some are more reactive than others, and I'm not minimising the stress of owning a highly reactive dog. But I also think it's totally unrealistic - and potentially dangerous - to believe that you can train a dog to be bomb-proof. You can't.

You should never wholly trust any dog around children or other animals. Even the best of sheepdogs occasionally go rogue and start attacking sheep. I have seen a lot of children bitten by the trusted family pet (HCP). I have heard "He never showed any aggression before" a thousand times. The commonest breed to bite in the UK is a Labrador and, while that's not surprising, as they are the commonest breed, they are almost all family pets, and they almost all bite family members - bites of strangers are relatively rare. .

This false division of dogs into reactive and non-reactive creates unrealistic expectations, and dangerous complacency.

Nothing there is insurmountable with good help. My last dog was a rescue and she had people issues. She lived a very full and happy life but we had to be her advocates which we learnt to do.

She’s young. You can help her but you also have to accept her for what she is. It’s not always down to socialisation or breeding. Some dogs like people are more sensitive (anxiety sufferer here!)

It is disappointing when you don't have an easy, take anywhere dog, I had a dog reactive boy who was just terrified by stranger dogs which made life more difficult but he also had a lot of great traits and after a while it's just your normal to go pubs/cafes without the dog. Remember things can also change over time, we can learn to understand our dogs and read the situation better which helps them build confidence knowing we will take care of it.

This will need a behavorist to see exactly what's going on and to train you to help your dog, if have pet insurance check if policy will cover cost.
I really think you should work on muzzle training in the meantime so she is relaxed about wearing one while out on walks, at the vets or even around strangers at home. This will reduce your anxiety as if she does communicate she isn't happy then nobody can get hurt as Its easy to get distracted or taken by suprise by other peoples behaviour.
People will often give a muzzled dog a wide berth as assume they bite (even though its now safer than all the unmuzzled dogs) and likely to ask if ok to stroke if aware is many other reasons for wearing one. While best to avoid places which will cause your dog undue anxiety due to proximity of strangers like cafes altogether for now, it may not be forever if get help in.

If not already you also need to manage situation at home too so that when answering the door or strangers come in she is unable to get to them by using a dog gate or crate she can still see if that helps. A behaviourist would give you more personalised plan but in meantime you & DH do need to avoid minimising to keep others and your lovely dog safe as possible, as you may fall foul of the dangerous dogs act (which also now covers people at your home) as it doesn't even need to be a bite and maybe on shakey ground with legal cover if they see with vet history that you were aware of a risk but didn't take prevention.

The muzzle shop are great at helping you find the best fitting muzzle and as a lucher you should easily find a pretty, colourful one that allows them to pant fully so doesn't add extra stress.

Our dog became anxious. We have an asd child who can be loud and boisterous. We got a behaviourist. She was amazing. Helped us look at the environment and triggers for our dog. He is far less anxious now

Thank you so much all. Some really brilliant advice on here - I am taking it all in and it’s really heartening to hear that people have experienced similar and things have been managed or improved. I definitely think we can manage it - since she’s been growling at delivery men I am working hard to teach her that answering the door is not her job, it’s ours, and I put her in another room when I answer the door. I am hoping in time she will learn it’s nothing to worry about. Equally she doesn’t HAVE to come to new environments where people might try to stroke her. It just seems a shame that hates new places (and in fact the times she has snapped have always been when we’ve been on holiday or in a place she’s never visited before - it’s never been in the house or a place that’s familiar). I just wonder if that’s how she’ll always be, and we have to avoid triggers, or if there is a way to actually teach her not to be so nervous if we are somewhere new?

@Disneygirl37 - what was your experience? Was it a case of management or did you actually manage to change the behaviour patterns?

@KathieFerrars - I think I might be you! Our dog is also very beautiful- people stop us constantly to ask what she is - and because she is pretty and cuddly looking (plus because we are often with kids so people think she’s gentle - I have to say, she’s never reacted to any child thank god), they presume she’s going to be super friendly…

(To the poster who simply wrote ‘train your bloody dog’ - seriously?!)

Sounds like reading up on dog body language and communication would help. IMDT do a great zoom seminar on it for starters. The triggers probably are predictable, you just need to spend some time observing her more subtle signals and the environments in which she's feeling less comfortable. I have a reactive rescue and after a couple of years I know exactly what triggers his anxiety, so as far as possible I can manage those situations. Once you understand what makes her uncomfortable and effective management so she doesn't go over threshold, you can work on counter conditioning if you really need to take the dog into these situations. It's not easy or quick but it'll build such a strong relationship between you!

We expect an awful lot of dogs these days, even ten years ago they wouldn't have been expected to be 'bombproof' in any human environment. Most dogs aren't totally comfortable in busy places if you observe closely.

I’ve had my dog since he was 12weeks old .. he’s always hated strangers, esp people in hats , bald men and will be very aggressive if anyone dare come to the door .. he’s chased postman down the drive had hold of the sky man’s trousers .. he’s a chihuahua so people tend not to be scared of him, long story short I tried dog trainers , groups and people coming to the house nothing worked so just made sure he was locked away if I had to open the door and was very careful if new people came into the house. He’s 16 now and deaf and much friendlier unless it’s the vet … he still hates him but doesn’t bite anymore. Sorry not advice but dogs are not perfect just like humans can react if scared or startled , if a trainer can’t fix it then adapt your behaviour and actions to minimise the risks.

Also one thing that’s genuinely confusing me, if we avoid her triggers (ie keep her away from unknown situations) doesn’t that risk making her WORSE in the long run? Ie if she never has to deal with new people and places, then surely she’ll never get used to them?

Also I am really baffled as to why this seems to be getting worse over time? She’s much much calmer and more well behaved on every other level than she was 18 months ago, what has caused her to become so wary? X

If you were scared of spiders, say, and people kept chucking spiders at you, would that make you better or worse?

You're in a negative feedback loop - she has started to feel anxious in certain situations, but you keep taking her into them, so every encounter is reinforcing her fear.

It's not about getting used to things - if she's reacting she's already at a very high stress level (as pps have mentioned, look up trigger stacking). Avoiding reaching that level in the first place is the key. Starting from a calm place, you can work on counter conditioning to a previously scary trigger - reintroducing it really slowly and gently with positive associations. But forcing the dog into a highly stressful situation will make things worse - the more she feels her low level warning signs are being ignored the more likely she'll jump straight to more extreme reactions.