dog disappointment/impact on family - help me

[icechip]

Namechanged.

Feeling so upset and anxious right now. Have a 3 year old dog - getting her was totally driven by me, did my research, spent time considering breeds etc etc. A perfect litter came up just before we went into lockdown, so we went for it - and naively I thought this would be fine - but I do wonder if some of the issues we currently face are a result of lack of proper socialisation early on. 😞

Anyway, as ddog has matured, she has become increasingly nervy towards strangers. She is amazingly affectionate and loving towards us and people that she knows....when I talk to friends about this problem, they honestly don't believe me because they just know her as a hyper-friendly dog - she's always so happy and waggy around them.

But over the past year, she's become much more guardy at the door - growling at strangers and delivery men. She's also - on a couple of occasions over the past year - snapped at people who've taken her by surprise by stroking her...we were just out on a walk with her and she snapped at a waiter in a cafe - he was holding a big tray and I think it freaked her out as he reached for her head. There always seems to be some kind of 'reason' when she gets angsty - but I just feel absolutely distraught about this. Grew up with bomb-proof dogs so it's a total shock. She's not the dog I wanted or expected for our family - and the thought of another 10plus years being on edge on every walk or whenever people come to the door fills me with absolute dread, to be frank.

What's also challenging is that DH (who does the lion's share of walks) is absolutely in love with her and refuses to think she needs any kind of further training or help - and in a way, I'm not sure you can train out personality if this is just her. He thinks she's just a dog being a dog, and if she gets snappy or growly then there is a reason for that and I need to stop worrying and suck it up, essentially. It sounds ridiculous but it's actually affecting our marriage because I feel he totally dismisses my concerns and feelings, and he thinks I'm being an uptight killjoy who complains about the dog. Our kids love her.

If you've got this far, I'd appreciate any advice or thoughts. Either on accepting that dog you wanted isn't the dog you got (which is where I am I think) or indeed, stories of dogs that chilled out with age. I'm actually getting a bit tearful writing this as it just isn't how I thought it would be.

I'd also recommend a good behaviourist: one that will work with you and her. It's not necessarily to change her personality, but more to give her coping mechanisms to help.

Also, if she is different with you, it could be that you are expecting problems so get anxious. She then picks up on the anxiety and reacts because you have shown her that there is something to be anxious of iyswim? A good behaviourist can help break that cycle.

I am definitely more anxious about the dog than DH. And she is more anxious when I am there. We’ve had and done training with her, and she is improving, but we do not try and push her over threshold, so only things that she can manage happily.

@Whattodo121 - thank you, it's actually great to hear we are not alone. Our ddog is also a joy at home - obedient, very calm and absolutely fine to be left alone. There are also people outside the family she loves and trusts, so it's not all bad I know. A lot of it is just getting past her not being the dog I wanted or expected.

@Newusernameaug - she's actually always been ok with other dogs, thankfully. And, I'm not dismissing it AT ALL, or I wouldn't be posting on here, but the snapping is sort of almost like a jerky air snap when it happens, not a lunge or snarl. I really couldn't see her biting someone but obviously it needs addressing.

To those who are saying 'dogs will behave differently with different people' - so interesting and yes, but one thing to say is that these episodes have occurred when DH is there too, not just me being alone with her. However, these episodes never seem to happen when I'm not around (apparently).

Sympathies OP as my dog is similar. She can growl when things make her on edge like if she sees somebody putting the bin out she is unsure of the bin.

We've just accepted that she is a nervous dog with very low confidence around strangers or in busy places (sadly she is ex- breeding so didn't get the best start). If people ask to stroke her we say 'sorry no, she's a nervous dog and takes a while to warm up to people'.

When I stopped comparing her to the idea of a 'perfect dog' I started to appreciate her more as she is. She's a sensitive soul (a bit like me really) and just gets scared more easily, doesn't mean she isn't a wonderful dog.

This reads that you are more open to putting her on medication than getting to the root of the problem. Medication won't help solve the issue.
Numerous OPs have tried to point out that you need to address the root causes of her issues but you appear highly resistant to that. You have to advocate for your dog and this would be through seeking professional help.
This will NOT resolve itself unless you get professional help from a clinical behaviourist
Or are you wanting someone to say put her up for adoption and then you can wash your hands of her?
If you wanted a different dog then probably not the best to get a breed crossed with a collie! They are amazing dogs in the right hands and when they have a job to but in the wrong/inexperienced hands + boredom I have seen many with anxiety related issues.

Remember growling is also their warning sign that they are wary about something and don't feel comfortable. It's not necessarily a sign they are being aggressive. That's why you should never tell a dog off for growling - it's their way of communicating they are not happy about a situation.

If anyone could recommend a brilliant London/Hertfordshire based behaviourist that does specialise in issues like this, that would be amazing. Long shot I know.

And if anyone has come up against their partners having differing concerns or perspectives on their dogs, I'd love to hear how you managed that. DH literally thinks she is perfect and has no issues, so it's hard to get him to address any of this. It may be one for the relationships board rather than here 😂

Look on the IMDT or ABTC websites for local behaviourists or ask your vet for a referral.
When it comes to dog training my DH does what he is told by me, it is too important to mess around with. You need to get tough with him.

I would recommend this lady, I have used her https://www.muddymutleys.com/

Just a thought is her vision ok?

I have a pug who is 5 and is quite a nervous timid dog . If something falls or a loud noise it scares him . Sometimes they say it can be a confidence thing which is why I think a behaviourist would help . He’s a lovely affectionate dog well behaved however when we had strangers in the house and he’s put out of the way of them , some ppl ask can I stroke him and we say no because he’s been know to snap at people he doesn’t know . Don’t let people stroke her she doesn’t know and try to keep to familiar places until you have sorted out the issue . Good luck OP

@suzie2023 - thank you. I do know that growling is their warning sign and doesn't necessarily indicate aggression. I never tell her off for it.

@twistyizzy - I don't think I'm being resistant tbh, I am just asking for help. It's difficult because DH and I have different views on what is normal and okay and he does most of her care. I am very open to help from a behaviourist, but those my friends have used have dealt with specific issues (such as separation anxiety or excessive barking) whereas this seems more wide-ranging - she sometimes doesn't like new people or situations. I'd guess the root cause of that is fear of the unknown, probably caused by lack of socialisation over lockdown. The simple answer to this anxiety is 'keep her away from new situations' - which I can do, but we live in London and have a busy family life so it's really not ideal. Equally I asked about medication not for a quick fix but because it might help her - just as if a human has anxiety or depression they might take medication for it. Of course I'm not wanting people to tell me to rehome her!

OK but you are spending a lot of time saying why you don't think a behaviourist would be suitable when in fact this is exactly one of the things they are trained to help with ie fear/anxiety/reactivity.
At the end of the day you will do what you want but don't ignore the many, many PPs who have advised that you need a behaviourist.
The answer isn't to keep her away from new situations as that isn't realistic and anyway she will eventually start becoming reactive in familiar places if you don't treat the root cause.
Either get help for your dog or don't 🤷‍♀️

@minsmum - thank you, I will look at that. Were they good on complex needs like this?

@StrongTea - her vision seems fine. She catches balls no problem, and is still very young, so....

@Chocolatesandroses - we are always careful when people come into the house and actually she might bark a little at new guests, but generally as soon as she understands they're not a 'threat' she is absolutely friendly and lovely. Problems seem to occur more when we are out.

I have a dog reactive dog and it’s quite frankly awful. I thought dog ownership was going to be nice peaceful walks in the park but in reality I have to be hyper vigilant of where dogs are, or might be etc. It’s stressful. It’s not what I wanted.

I love him to pieces, he is my absolute everything but my life is going to be a lot easier once he has gone.

It’s a long road ahead.

@twistyizzy - I'm definitely not dismissing a behaviourist. I just want to make sure I absolutely find the right one. I also imagine that it's going to be quite a tough case to work on, because her behaviour is so unpredictable (ie I might not be able to demonstrate her snapping or how she reacts to strangers - I might only be able to explain!)

They will have seen it all before but yes 100% do your research. Like I said, vets often work with clinical behaviourists so worth asking there or the IMDT or ABTC websites.

@twistyizzy - very good advice, thank you. And if anyone on here does have recommendations of behaviourists that have helped with similar issues, that would be great!

TBH your DH and you are both correct. Your dog is just doing normal dog behaviour but you are finding it an issue as you should do.

If you could find a good collie trainer you probably dont need a behaviourist.

Collies do not like a lot of interaction from people they dont know

They like life to be in order and can be stressed if it is not

A collie will nip and lunge very quickly at movement or situations that they feel uncomfortable in.

Initially I would avoid taking to areas that you know your dog finds challenging.

Do not let people stroke her. Many dogs do not liked being touched on their heads they tend to just tolerate it. Collies dont do tolerance that well

When the door bell rings put her in a room away from the front door.

Preventing putting her in situations she finds difficult will help her to be less hypervigilant and will make her less stressed and more able to cope with the situations.

I have owned collies for many years and they are fab dogs but often have their "special" requirements

The good news is that when you have worked out triggers and how to avoid them you will have a happy dog without the need for medication.

I've experienced similar with having an autistic child that I can't take anywhere. It's a grief process. It's not the experience I wanted or imagined. But you accept, deal with and count the blessings you do have.

These really are not complex needs OP

They are scary and do need addressing but the solution will not be complex

I've got an incredibly nervy sprocker, which was a massive shock after a very sociable and easy going cocker. She really struggles with new places, hates busy environments and we have to walk off the beaten track so she's not overstimulated by meeting too many other dogs.

Our Vet recommended medication (Prozac), and a behaviourist (can be done via insurance). I'm reluctant to try the medication as she's so young (4) but we are waiting for an appointment with someone. In the meantime, we're using Yucalm supplements which seems to help somewhat.

She's a darling soul, and it's just her personality - she likes calm, and quiet and we live life around it if that makes sense. It is limiting at times though if I'm really honest.

This is a very good place to start

Sarah a collie behaviourist at Dingbat Dog

@icechip I am wondering if you are me. I love my dog but like yours she is reactive to strangers. Not all the time, in fact she's 80% fine but we have to be really cautious as there are times she will be fine with people stroking her and other times when she gets explosive. She is very very beautiful and people do walk past her and stare. She is also very floofy so people think she's harmless and huggy. We've worked out that it is when she is startled or when someone is staring at her. We've bought a yellow lead for her. She's good in cafes snd pubs and my husband sat outside a cafe with her at school time with small children whizzing by on bikes and scooters past her nose and she didn't turn a hair. Unlike the bloke who was unexpectedly and randomly was sat on the path in the field. She barked at him because it was so unexpected. I'm doing lots of 'watch' and treats.
I would like to get a behaviourist in to tackle her problem with people coming to the house. Husband is more resistant to this.

I too get far more anxious about the dog than anything else.