Cannot control puppy

[puppydisaster]

I've changed name for this, as I'm fully expecting to get my arse handed to me, but I'm completely miserable.

Some background:

Puppy is 6 months old, and a standard labra/goldendoodle, weighing 22kg already.

She is incredibly friendly - but massive. We have been working hard on keeping her paws on the floor at home to prevent jumping up (all bets are off with visitors).

She pulls on the lead massively if she sees small children or other dogs. Again, she's friendly, but obviously I don't want her going over to people/dogs we don't know.

She's much better off the lead when there are no people or dogs around, although recall appears to be getting worse, not better.

Yesterday we were out for a walk in a field, and she was off-lead as I had 100m of visibility in every direction and there were no people or dogs. Then suddenly, she just ran, and wouldn't recall. I chased after her, but she'd sprinted 100m to a path and knocked over two toddlers, and when I got there a few seconds later, she was still jumping up at the mum (who understandably was furious - I would have probably kicked her if I'd been the parent, so fair play to the woman who just shouted at me). I came home, shaky and tearful and could barely look at the dog.

So today I took her out and only allowed her on the long lead so we could do some recall practice (no off lead, as I can't trust her). I was picking up a poo, whilst holding the lead, and she suddenly started to run again, towards another dog. I stamped on the lead to stop her, but she pulled it out from under me, got away and jumped all over the dog. Thankfully the owner was fine about it (dog is very friendly - it would be a different story if she wasn't).

I've tried the Halti head collar and she just escapes from it almost immediately. I've tried double-leading her, which is fine for short walks but doesn't help me practise recall. (We have tried whistles, clickers, treats - it feels like everything.)

She is better with my husband who uses a much sterner tone than I do. But he can also physically control her - she can pull me off my feet.

I just feel I've bitten off a lot more dog than I can handle, especially as she's only going to get bigger, and I'm hoping someone can give me some advice other than "you shouldn't even have a dog", which is how I feel about myself right now.

What have you been doing to train her? Have you got experience training dogs or been to classes with her? Have you sought expert advice?

You need professional help. A trainer or behaviourist. She's out of control and you need to sort it out now before it gets worse/ your resentment of her gets worse.

Yep. You need professional help before she hurts someone.

How exactly are you teaching recall ?

You need a professional trainer, obviously. You have no idea what you're doing or how to handle a dog. I'm not saying that to be mean, it's just a fact. You must pay for a trainer. If you don't, these behaviours are going to get worse and will be much harder to undo.

What formal training have you done with her? Has she been to classes or seen a trainer?

You have a mix of three big, strong, intelligent, energetic and friendly breeds that all take a good couple of years to reach maturity. You're also just about to hit the nightmare that is the teenage years - hence her recall going totally out of the window.

If you can't hold her back on a long line then she will just have to be kept on the lead for now. The incident with the toddlers could have ended up with her under a dog control order for life. A dog doesn't need to bite someone to be considered out of control or dangerous.

If you want to practise recall you'll need to look for an enclosed field (normally about £10/hour) so that you can let her off without needing to worry.

You're in the hardest time as she's got the size and strength of an adult but the mind and attitude of a teenager. It really is just a case of practise and repetition, but I would highly recommend some 1-2-1 training if you're struggling.

uses a much sterner tone than I do.

Not an expert but I would say this is important. I can stop dogs in their tracks when their owners can't. The difference, the dog believes me when I say no. I don't want them jumping on me and my (non friendly) tone & body language reflects this. Commanding, single word etc

Suggest you get a trainer in.

Carry around small treats or bits of kibble. My lab always comes back for that. Failing that, get a prong collar. It makes it very uncomfortable for the dog to pull on the leash. This is all while waiting for a professional thought of course.

While you wait to get her to a trainer, work on getting her to focus on you. Play some games with her (even though you don't feel inclined to just now). Just something simple where you throw a ball or toy indoors and she brings it to you, and you throw it again, will help to develop a relationship where she looks to you as the source of good things.

And don't panic. If we're being honest, most of us on this board have had puppies who have done stupid things, and come out the other side.

You should not let her off the lead until recall is established. I was told that recall gets worse around 5-6 months but you have to keep working on them. My 6 month old Cockapoo has never been off lead in public, we are still teaching her to walk properly and practising her recall skills.

You were very lucky that the incident with the two toddlers didn't escalate, they could have been really hurt/traumatised.

I think you need to invest time and energy into teaching your dog properly and consistently. Are there any local classes? Watch 'Dogs behaving very badly' on channel 5 for hints on how to control your dog.

Good luck.

I second a trainer and a private field

Absolutely horrendous advice - OP, please never even consider a prong collar. They are cruel and not the right way to teach a dog anything.

The other option is a slip lead up under her jaw. Perfectly comfortable, unless she pulls.

You need both you and her to be safe, as a priority.

All good advice on here. Obviously we don't know if you have done any puppy training at all. I think it's essential, otherwise you are letting a 17 year old, with a provisional driving license,loose on the road with a Ferrari. Good luck.

^^ This.

Do get in a 121 trainer who should be showing you how to work in low threshold environments and then when it is ready to move to higher )meeting other dogs and people) environments.

It is a learning curve and things will get better.

Remember if you dog can not do the behaviour eg recall in your garden they will not do it out and about.

In the meantime do not worry about keeping your dog on a short lead, you can give more fun and games at home which will also improve the focus on you an use up some of your puppies energy.

A 121 trainer will really quickly get you on the right track.

Also to help you get through this tricky period.

Echo that you should go to classes/ get a trainer
Practice walking on lead and recall in the garden
She may be entering the teenage phase of rebellion, which should pass
Initially have high value treats, fresh meat etc and hold some in your hand when on lead, hold lead with both hands, have a word/command that means to walk closely to your side and when she does so, give treats
Same with recall, call her and reward with treat
At home practice treats when she comes when you call her name
Don't use an extendable lead
She is still a puppy and needs training

My dog was a bugger for doing this when picking up a poo so I had a lead around my waist I attached her to for when I pick up poop then back to the extending lead for rest of walk.

I understand where you're coming from, we have a Lab and he is strong. He could pull me off my feet if he really tries. He's nearly two now and 32kg.

Compared to where we were a year ago, he's improved (grown up) massively. We've had to do a lot of work with him especially with the jumping up. He gets a firm "down" and if he persists, we were taught at puppy class to fold our arms and turn our backs to him. He's learnt that this means stop. We had to run a lot of interference when people came round to the house.

For walking, we use a harness - it's a Halti but it's never come off him (a previous different brand did): bestpetstore.co.uk/halti-no-pull-dog-harness-padded-walking-training-pet-vest-small-medium-large/?sku=886284153201&srsltid=AYJSbAegiudsZcHEv4OzYfLSmvag8oLubneRrB8YrrSo4iAT3PlpdPUsE-4. You can attach the lead the the front section to which effectively puts them off balance if they pull too much.

However, the best way of getting him to recall, walk next to us, is treats. Being a Lab he is very food motivated. I always have a stash in the jacket of my walking coat and he's knows it. He's not perfect and he's still learning, but he's so much better then he used to be.

I agree with previous posters that you need a trainer and will need to practice with her everyday, even if you're just walking in circles in the garden with her on a lead. She will learn and she will get better, just perserve with the training and hang on.

Omg no, please don’t do this

Two other things you can try:

1. When practicing recall around the house every 1/10 times, have a jackpot level of treats (ie give them loads), this works well for teaching any trick cos the dog wonders if this will be the time they hit the jackpot!
2. Find their highest value treat (ours loves liver cake), then treat them with that word. Never give it to them apart from when training on that word. Then keep it for when you’re out and something dangerous / silly is about to happen, ie if the dog slipped their lead and starts running off towards toddlers you have this very high value recall word

When picking up poo I used to put my foot through the loop of the lead and make sure my weight was very firmly on that leg.

I was told if they won’t come back for treats, the treats aren’t tasty enough.
I was recommended garlic sausage.

until you can get a good behaviourist, check puppy books etc.

Maybe practice in the garden with the tasty treats and lots of recall. Practice a bellowing voice. When walking on a long lead, keep calling them back for a treat. You may have to start going somewhere where there are unlikely to be distractions until recall is better.

My DDs golden is a bugger for picking up plants in plastic pots and just thinks it’s a game and runs off. One time I managed such a stern command, he dropped immediately.

Dropping the lead shouldn't mean anything. If that's how you release her to run, stop. Teach her she only goes on a command release word.
If she runs again (and there's no danger of children or dogs obviously) chasing her will likely teach her it's a game.
Make yourself the most exciting thing in the park making lots of noise and run in the opposite direction, she'll chase you.
Or, hide from her (again only when you know for sure its safe) Running away is fun to her because it's safe and you chase her. She knows you'll always be there. When you hide she'll learn that isn't always the case. That momentary panic can teach them a lot.

I've tried the Halti head collar and she just escapes from it almost immediately.

Have you checked you have the correct size? Halti was brilliant for our lab, work so well that even if lead she trots beside us to heel unless we tell her to go and play.

How are you training her and how much time each day are you doing training with her?

The problem is you can't chop and change with the training, a bit of this and a bit of that etc. it needs to be consistent and you need guidance which is fine.

You have to figure out what motivates her to stay focussed on you (probably food), plus taking into account her age and therefore setting realistic expectations of what she is capable of.

I'd advise going to a training class where they teach you how to keep her focus on you in the presence of other dogs and distractions. Don't go to one of this pointless classes in a village hall - you need a big area to work in and someone who really knows what they're doing. A gun dog trainer perhaps.

Also highly recommend going to a private dog walking field where you can practice all of these skills and give her a blast off the lead without fear of her running off.

Thanks all for advice and for those who have been kind.

To answer some questions, yes she went to puppy training as soon as she was old enough. It was of limited use for her, because she spent the entire session lunging, trying to get towards other dogs. It was useful for us though, as we got some tips about high value / low value treats, dog body language and so on.

I also took her to two "puppy playtime" sessions (run by a dog trainer) where we worked on being in the same space but NOT interacting with a dog close by.

The problem is she's not massively food motivated (though PP's suggestion that maybe the treats aren't good enough is possible - and I liked the jackpot suggestion too). Literally NOTHING is as exciting to her as another dog or small child. If I ran in the other direction, she wouldn't follow if there was another dog.

She's not that bothered by balls / toys. She enjoys games of tug, but I think I'm just helping her build her muscles!

In terms of training, I do about 10 minutes twice a day in the garden, plus training on 2 x 25 minute walks each day too (obviously not continuously), but e.g. rewarding her for coming back when she hears a whistle, asking her to sit etc.

The Halti she just spent the entire time pawing at her mouth, and then worked out that if she relaxed, and opened her mouth, it would loosen - then she slipped it off with her paws (she's bright - just... willful)

Perhaps a one-to-one trainer is the next step.

My daughter was in a similar situation..like many people and I mean no offence, she bought the dog she wanted with no thought as to the best dog for her family situation.

She went through a few trainers before finding the right one and both she and the dog are now being trained together. It's going to be a long haul for them both but she's happy to do it. I think you need to decide whether the time and trouble and expense is what you want in the long run. The wrong dog in the wrong home can do untold damage in so many respects.