Cannot control puppy

[puppydisaster]

I've changed name for this, as I'm fully expecting to get my arse handed to me, but I'm completely miserable.

Some background:

Puppy is 6 months old, and a standard labra/goldendoodle, weighing 22kg already.

She is incredibly friendly - but massive. We have been working hard on keeping her paws on the floor at home to prevent jumping up (all bets are off with visitors).

She pulls on the lead massively if she sees small children or other dogs. Again, she's friendly, but obviously I don't want her going over to people/dogs we don't know.

She's much better off the lead when there are no people or dogs around, although recall appears to be getting worse, not better.

Yesterday we were out for a walk in a field, and she was off-lead as I had 100m of visibility in every direction and there were no people or dogs. Then suddenly, she just ran, and wouldn't recall. I chased after her, but she'd sprinted 100m to a path and knocked over two toddlers, and when I got there a few seconds later, she was still jumping up at the mum (who understandably was furious - I would have probably kicked her if I'd been the parent, so fair play to the woman who just shouted at me). I came home, shaky and tearful and could barely look at the dog.

So today I took her out and only allowed her on the long lead so we could do some recall practice (no off lead, as I can't trust her). I was picking up a poo, whilst holding the lead, and she suddenly started to run again, towards another dog. I stamped on the lead to stop her, but she pulled it out from under me, got away and jumped all over the dog. Thankfully the owner was fine about it (dog is very friendly - it would be a different story if she wasn't).

I've tried the Halti head collar and she just escapes from it almost immediately. I've tried double-leading her, which is fine for short walks but doesn't help me practise recall. (We have tried whistles, clickers, treats - it feels like everything.)

She is better with my husband who uses a much sterner tone than I do. But he can also physically control her - she can pull me off my feet.

I just feel I've bitten off a lot more dog than I can handle, especially as she's only going to get bigger, and I'm hoping someone can give me some advice other than "you shouldn't even have a dog", which is how I feel about myself right now.

@puppydisaster this is my set up as linked before. Just been out so thought I'd take a photo.
Forgot I use strong locking carabiners to attach the lead to the belt. Secure and quick to undo if needed.

She will very happily eat roast chicken or cheese or sausage - and will come back to me for them when literally nothing else is happening. If she's halfway down a ditch, she'll just ignore me. It wouldn't even be worth trying if there were other dogs around.

When she's on lead I have some success with scattering treats and telling her to go find, whilst another dog walks past, though she'll still lunge hopefully at it once the treats have all been snaffled.

I have always put her on a lead as soon as we see the tiny dot of a person or dog in the distance because I know she goes loopy. But the running away from me and finding people I couldn't see/hear is new and she won't be off the lead again until we've sorted this out.

Very outing picture attached.

Sounds like a very intelligent dog to me. And also like my dog at the same age. She had me in tears several times. We did have a trainer and it did improve, but I think age and relationship building was the biggest factor. I also came to understand that the lunging and running after other dogs, was actually motivated partly by anxiety and overstimulation. She is now very submissive and will flatten if another dog approaches.

Also some dogs are absolutely not food motivated at all. Ours wasn't interested even in roast lamb or duck when out. We had more success with a rabbit skin tug toy but she quickly got bored of that too. The most success we had was bringing her back, making her wait, and then giving the release command so that the reward for recall became... Being let free again!

And some dogs can absolutely pick up on owner stress or anxiety. Ours will avoid me if I'm in a stew over something. She is also much more difficult to handle if I am ill. She just knows. Hard not to be anxious that they are going to flatten a toddler or an elderly person though! Fenced fields are great for this as you can relax.

If she goes to dog daycare or anything, make sure they aren't permitting the kind of behaviour you don't want to see, IE, jumping up. Also make sure they are not using your special commands (come, here, whatever) and making them redundant by repeating, repeating, repeating them when she ignores.

@puppydisaster have you got any secure dog fields near you. I have several round me and pay about £10 an hour for private use. It's excellent for proofing recall and letting them have an off lead blast without worrying about anyone else.

I use one about twice a week to allow my rescue off lead time.

Google Wylanbriar Gundogs. Site is focused on Labradors, but it offers much sensible advice about training dogs, and their humans.

You’ll get much more out of one to ones than puppy lessons... secure fields are good for off lead too.

But also... she’s 6 months old, they’re often twats at that age tbh.

OP, will she retrieve a ball? If so, a squeaky ball might be your best mate. Well worth a try.

Please don't use a prong collar

Slip leads are nasty

You seem to have glossed over any behaviourist suggestions, which is fundamentally what you need, not any gadgets. If she knocks over a child or elderly person or hurts a small dog you could find yourself in hot water

You’re beating yourself up too much. She’s just a puppy and she’ll calm down soon enough. Just keep her on a lead.

I’m not sure why you don’t let her say hello to other dogs though….that’s what most people do on walks. It’s always a miserable experience when dogs want to greet each other and one owner has a pole stuck up their bottom and pulls their dog away.

Then suddenly, she just ran, and wouldn't recall. I chased after her, but she'd sprinted 100m to a path and knocked over two toddlers, and when I got there a few seconds later, she was still jumping up

😁 I bet you were calling her in a high pich voice while running...
In her mind, you joined in the fun!
Call her back in a deep assertive voice, don't run walk briskly, if she's "safe" and running towards an other dog try calling her & don't follow her, if she looks at you, walk the other way, no eye contact!
She'll soon learn....🤞

What a daft comment.

I don't let my dog greet other dogs (unless he already knows them) because I don't trust other owners when they tell me their dog is friendly.

Dogs don't need to greet every single dog they meet.

You should never ever let dogs meet on the lead! Any responsible owner knows that. Recipe for disaster!
People who pull their dogs away (like me) don't have anything stuck up our backside thank you. We are just not irresponsible enough to put our dogs in difficult situations!!!

I’m not a good person but I’m surprised how little exercise some people on here say dogs need. Human toddlers need 3 hours a day.

Do tell my dogs that, then.
I hold the loop open, say 'lead on' and they stick their heads through.

Slips are 'aversive' in that, yes, you can give a dog a sharp yank with one that it really won't find terribly comfortable (you can yank a dog about on a flat collar, too...). But if you have a dog that walks fairly well to heel, as mine generally do, on or off lead, slip leads are ideal. Quick release, which is very convenient. Quick to put on, which is very helpful if you need to get two or three dogs back on the lead in a hurry, or its freezing cold and you've got gloves on. And you can use them without a collar, which is necessary when you are out working your dog and have taken the collar off for the dog's own safety.

A slip lead up under a dog's jaw will stop that dog hauling itself and its owner into traffic because it has seen a dog on the opposite pavement.

Dogs aren't human though.

I know. I finding it interesting that they need so little exercise.

I was always taught that if a dog pulls on the lead you turn around and go in the other for a few paces or till they start walking that way then if they pull on the lead again you turn around and do the same again.
I would also have a bag of treats and or sausage or chicken in your pocket and hold a treat in your hand whilst walking and if they walk looking at your hand and don’t pull you reward them every few yards with a treat and a stroke to begin with. Gradually going further and further before giving out the treat and stroke until you are going for a long walk with only a treat at the end.

My old girl was not too bad at recall or generally walking as I think as a puppy we walked with a group of larger older dogs and she learned her place in the pack and that if when we shouted them to come back to us then she would run back with them. Could this help if you kept him on a long lead and he was around older and bigger dogs who you knew were only going to tell him off without it getting into a fight if he started to throw his weight around.

I remember a puppy boxer coming into the group and thinking he was in charge and being put firmly in his place by the older and bigger dogs. If he overstepped the mark one of the larger dogs would put a paw on him and held him down till he had calmed down.
Maybe a trainer with a calm older and bigger dog would help him interact with other dogs.

She's a mix of intelligent working breeds. You need a trainer, that is very obvious I'm afraid. I'd be keeping her on the lead walking if her recall is that bad and hire a secure dog field if she needs a good run. Have a look into gundog training with her, she'll need something to occupy her brain.

Aren’t you teaching your dog that other dogs are not to be trusted if you yank them away as soon as they even start to get close to another dog

One-on-one training and absolutely no off lead in public spaces until her recall is solid. If you can’t commit to both of those things then you really shouldn’t have a dog. If she needs to burn some energy, take her to an off lead field. But be careful, at 6 months she still shouldn’t be covering long distances, it could seriously damage her joints.

These are highly intelligent, very curious, high energy dogs. All dogs need to be allocated a job to do and if they don't have one, they will find one of their own! You need to take control and everyone in the "pack" needs to be consistent with the dog. If you can't do that, you will be like a lot of people where the dog controls them.

I would start with the Dog Whisperer, Cesar Millan whose approach I have never seen fail. I have used it myself on completely out of control dogs, spoilt dogs, neglected dogs, babied dogs and abused dogs and aggressive dogs. Never fails. You need to find your inner strength as a leader and must want to do it.
He has made loads of TV programmes over the years and written books, all of which are great.
Golden rule: Exercise, discipline, affection - in that order. (Discipline does not mean hitting and screaming - it means "training" and learning.)
Good luck!

@Kennykenkencat no not at all. Learning to walk past dogs and not interact with them is really important. We don't stop and chat to everyone we meet so why are we expecting our dogs to? Or to want to?
Lots of dogs will be very uncomfortable meeting on the lead as they don't have space to get away or an escape route. So there is a far far greater chance of an unsuccessful meet.
My rescue loves playing with other dogs but is very uncomfortable being approached when she's on the lead. And that's fine she doesn't ever have to.

Why do people put harnesses on these dogs? Harnesses teach a dog to PULL. A lead teaches a dog to walk with you and be connected to you!