Cannot control puppy

[puppydisaster]

I've changed name for this, as I'm fully expecting to get my arse handed to me, but I'm completely miserable.

Some background:

Puppy is 6 months old, and a standard labra/goldendoodle, weighing 22kg already.

She is incredibly friendly - but massive. We have been working hard on keeping her paws on the floor at home to prevent jumping up (all bets are off with visitors).

She pulls on the lead massively if she sees small children or other dogs. Again, she's friendly, but obviously I don't want her going over to people/dogs we don't know.

She's much better off the lead when there are no people or dogs around, although recall appears to be getting worse, not better.

Yesterday we were out for a walk in a field, and she was off-lead as I had 100m of visibility in every direction and there were no people or dogs. Then suddenly, she just ran, and wouldn't recall. I chased after her, but she'd sprinted 100m to a path and knocked over two toddlers, and when I got there a few seconds later, she was still jumping up at the mum (who understandably was furious - I would have probably kicked her if I'd been the parent, so fair play to the woman who just shouted at me). I came home, shaky and tearful and could barely look at the dog.

So today I took her out and only allowed her on the long lead so we could do some recall practice (no off lead, as I can't trust her). I was picking up a poo, whilst holding the lead, and she suddenly started to run again, towards another dog. I stamped on the lead to stop her, but she pulled it out from under me, got away and jumped all over the dog. Thankfully the owner was fine about it (dog is very friendly - it would be a different story if she wasn't).

I've tried the Halti head collar and she just escapes from it almost immediately. I've tried double-leading her, which is fine for short walks but doesn't help me practise recall. (We have tried whistles, clickers, treats - it feels like everything.)

She is better with my husband who uses a much sterner tone than I do. But he can also physically control her - she can pull me off my feet.

I just feel I've bitten off a lot more dog than I can handle, especially as she's only going to get bigger, and I'm hoping someone can give me some advice other than "you shouldn't even have a dog", which is how I feel about myself right now.

I'm not an expert but is your dog getting enough exercise?

Please do get some help with this before it goes badly wrong.

Sorry OP but I don’t think 2 x 25 minute walks are enough for a dog of that size. We have a similar breed who is always bouncy and the vet said the whole “5 mins per month of age” is outdated, don’t run with them on concrete for hours at that age but a good run around a park is good.

Another tip - when ours was in a similar challenging phase we would walk her along woodland paths so she couldn’t ever see beyond 50-100 yards, it stopped her running off at anything and actually she got really interested in a ball.

Lastly, age massively helps, ours would go up to anything at all at that age but around a year we could walk past dogs, she’d say a polite hello then walk on

I would first and foremost contact a behaviourist. They will be able to help you. None of it sounds particularly dire. Just lack of training and motivation.
I put her on a harness. One with a Y shaped front so goes between their front legs and has a D ring on the chest. Like the perfect fit harnesses.
Then clip a double ended lead to it. So clip one on the back of the harness and one on the chest. This gives you so much more control!
I have two similar sized dogs and I use a dog walking belt from eBay and have both dogs attached to me. So no risk of dropping leads etc. I attach a short handle to the two rings on the lead about halfway along to hold onto.
with the long line. Tie knots in it at 1m intervals. That way when you stand on it when it hits a knot it won't continue to pull through.

High value treat on hand always. Cooked chicken, hot dogs, sausages, cooked liver etc. whatever might motivate them. Or squeaky toy. Lots of engagement from you to keep their attention on you.

If your in the south west I can recommend an excellent behaviourist

Some links I hope it helps

Harness

https://www.perfect-fit-dog-harness.com/perfect-fit-harness

Lead

ETACCU Hands Free Dog Lead, Dog Walking Waist Belt Dog Leash Belt Adjustable, 6.5 ft Dog Rope with Collars Training Leads Reflective Stitching Double Lead for Running Walking Hiking (Blue) https://amzn.eu/d/1eUNJo6

Handles

PLUTUS PET Strong Training Dog... https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B08KXZ49XX?ref=ppxpoppmobappshare

Walking belt

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/162636234355?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=yvNXSAWyR9q&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=hehsqegdsgm&var=464647243421&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Thanks for this - a lot of people have said this breed calms down a lot by a year - it's just making sure we are doing everything right in the meantime to get to this point.

2 x 25 mins is the minimum amount of walks she will get. Most days she gets 2 x 40 minutes, or 1 x 1.5 hours. She also has access to the garden for general pottering.

I don't get the sense she's under-exercised as her behaviour at home isn't bad (e.g. chewing, attention-seeking - usual things dogs do when bored). She mostly sleeps between walks.

Rubbish. That's plenty of exercise! Brain games and teaching them to settle are far more important than walking them for hours!
All walking does is increase their fitness and their need for more exercise. At six months old the puppy should be still doing no more than five minutes per month of life anyway!

Thank you so much for this - especially the links. She already has a Perfect Fit harness, which I currently attach two leads to (front and back), which definitely helps, but is a bit unwieldy. A double-ended lead will be a neater solution, for when she's on lead at least.

Thanks for the advice.

I mean, I literally just said that our vet told us that was outdated advice but whatever 🤷‍♀️

Use PACT or IMDT to search for a qualified, registered trainer. Even just a few teenager classes will help you.
The classes we took our puppy on were like therapy!

@ShirleyPhallus not according to the physiotherapist and hydrotherapists whom I work with with my dogs. They have studies dogs biomechanics in far greater detail than any vet ever would.
So I'm afraid I wouldn't be listening to your vet!

It is outdated advice as people take it to mean 25 minutes in total. But the puppy in the meantime will be tottering around the house, doing sniffy things, on their feet for FAR more than 25 minutes a day.
Yes no more than 25 minutes on pavement walking in one direction on a lead. However a 45 minute adventure which includes sniffing things out, lots of engagement, off lead time to potter around and chill out IS what they need.
Expecting them to settle in between is bonkers

Pottering about does not count! Do you count pottering about the garden or house during the day as part of your daily exercise?
Teaching a puppy or young dog to settle at home is the most important skill to teach them. So many people don't however and their dogs suffer for it.
My dogs have been taught to settle. They get walked daily but they have learnt that it's not always on their timescale. So when they are told to go to their beds and settle they do.
They have lots of sniffy enrichment games at home too. 10 minutes doing sniffy time is worth far more in terms of brain use than pavement pounding.
A gentle wander in the woods for ah hour would be great but so many people don't do this. The frogmarch their dogs around the pavements and park and think that constitutes a good walk for them!

She doesn't have a problem with settling. She's by my feet at the moment chewing a reindeer antler quite happily. She'll probably go to sleep in a bit. She occasionally has a crazy leaping about 5 minutes, but that's getting rarer as she gets older.

I genuinely don't think she's under-exercised.

Agreed! And that's what I took pp to mean. You can't expect a dog to settle after 2x25 minute walks. Enrichment is key. Some people do training and games. I prefer being outdoors longer because it's more fun for me than having to think up tricks!

Completely agree on the settle. It's probably the best thing we ever taught ours. He still wants to play at all times but that's the spaniel in him.

Sorry didn't see this before I posted.
It does sound like she just doesn't know what she's meant to do and gets wildly over excited. If you can afford it do find a trainer and some classes through PACT or IMDT
Failing that kikopup videos on YouTube are fantastic. Teaching a down stay is a good one.

Oh and just wanted to add you're not alone in finding it hard. Love him to pieces now but lots of 'what have I done' moments in the first year.

@justgettingthroughtheday the science behind the 5 minutes per month is very poor.
The current most comprehensive study looking at puppy exercise for that sticking to 5 minutes per month of age per day lead to more jumping leaping etc at home, which was found to be more damaging to joints than increasing exercise more rapidly in a steady low impact way.
Weight both as a puppy and as an adult is the single biggest factor that has an impact on joints after genetics. The taking part in high impact activity such as ball throwing are the next biggest impact or on joints.
Thiss* is an amazing article written by orthopaedic surgeon Mike Farrell about exercise and puppies it also covers why the science behind the original study is so poor.

Start now. Reward her frequently with kibble when walking well/by your side. Lots of vocal praise too.

As others have said you need different value rewards. My dog has sprats as high value and a broken up chewy thing as very high value (only used for recall).

Start at home/garden with recall and build up, stop letting off lead for now unless in enclosed space. If recall doesn't work in the garden then do it just before food time, the dog will come back then!

Do you have a friend with a dog that you can train with? Go to a field together, let them off to play, practice recall, put back on lead/high praise then let off again to play.

Frequently recall and reward when just walking the 2 of you. Don't keep saying dogs name it becomes background noise. Don't run towards dog when it runs off.

Have you tried a T Touch type of harness? Have you tried a whistle?

You say she's not food or toy motivated but have you tried super duper high value things like roast chicken, warmed up cocktail sausage or sprats? What about squeaky balls or rabbit skin rugs?

I think a 1-2-1 trainer is your best option here. Lots of young dogs struggle to learn in a group setting.

Do not get your dog a prong collar. They are bloody cruel!!!!

Prong collars are vile.

www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/dogs/training/prongcollars

Yes you need a trainer, classes, private field etc etc.

But what WE need, is a picture, she sounds fabulous, if a little 'high spirited!'

It'll get easier OP

Recall isn’t about calling a dog and them coming back. It’s about having a relationship with the dog that means it wants to be with you.
When dogs are puppies, walks should be all about interaction with you. Play, training, impulse control….. they need a certain amount of socialising with other dogs and exploring, but that should be at your control.
Dogs should not find their own fun, you give the fun to them. You are the keeper of the fun!
You need to start going to training classes and building a relationship with your dog.
If your husband is ‘stern’ with the dog, as the dog gets older and more confident he won’t listen to him either, if there’s no positive relationship.

Definitely recommend a 1-1 trainer but also the following tips;

• Find out what motivates her. There is something out there more exciting than a child or dog, you just haven't found it yet.
• Stimulate her mind. She's a mixture of highly intelligent breeds. If you don't keep her mind busy, she will. Try hunting/finding/puzzle games.
• Plan your walks. Avoid times and places with lots of stimuli so she's less distracted.
• Do NOT put your foot on or through the lead. If she goes, she will easily break your leg. Buy a bumbag or similar so you have everything you need to hand. Lead goes in one hand, bag goes over the other, pick up poo and tie.
• Don't just do training sessions. Every interaction with you teaches her something. Ten/fifteen/twenty minutes 2/3/4 times a day is nothing against the remaining 24hrs. When you open a door, she sits and waits to be called through. If she goes on furniture, she gets off. When you put food down she waits etc... All of these help to instil her trust in you as a leader and someone she wants to be around.

If your husband is ‘stern’ with the dog, as the dog gets older and more confident he won’t listen to him either, if there’s no positive relationship.

Hmm I'm not sure I agree with this. All the best behaved dogs I know have owners who don't tolerate nonsense.

That doesn't mean there's no love or fun, but dogs need boundaries.

I dog sit three different poodle crosses and none of them are hugely motivated by food. The least food bothered of all of them though will still do anything for a bit of roast chicken.
Is she interested in playing ball at all OP? If can be a good distraction and something to run after rather than people/dogs. Also if she wants you to throw it again then she has to come back.