Cannot control puppy

[puppydisaster]

I've changed name for this, as I'm fully expecting to get my arse handed to me, but I'm completely miserable.

Some background:

Puppy is 6 months old, and a standard labra/goldendoodle, weighing 22kg already.

She is incredibly friendly - but massive. We have been working hard on keeping her paws on the floor at home to prevent jumping up (all bets are off with visitors).

She pulls on the lead massively if she sees small children or other dogs. Again, she's friendly, but obviously I don't want her going over to people/dogs we don't know.

She's much better off the lead when there are no people or dogs around, although recall appears to be getting worse, not better.

Yesterday we were out for a walk in a field, and she was off-lead as I had 100m of visibility in every direction and there were no people or dogs. Then suddenly, she just ran, and wouldn't recall. I chased after her, but she'd sprinted 100m to a path and knocked over two toddlers, and when I got there a few seconds later, she was still jumping up at the mum (who understandably was furious - I would have probably kicked her if I'd been the parent, so fair play to the woman who just shouted at me). I came home, shaky and tearful and could barely look at the dog.

So today I took her out and only allowed her on the long lead so we could do some recall practice (no off lead, as I can't trust her). I was picking up a poo, whilst holding the lead, and she suddenly started to run again, towards another dog. I stamped on the lead to stop her, but she pulled it out from under me, got away and jumped all over the dog. Thankfully the owner was fine about it (dog is very friendly - it would be a different story if she wasn't).

I've tried the Halti head collar and she just escapes from it almost immediately. I've tried double-leading her, which is fine for short walks but doesn't help me practise recall. (We have tried whistles, clickers, treats - it feels like everything.)

She is better with my husband who uses a much sterner tone than I do. But he can also physically control her - she can pull me off my feet.

I just feel I've bitten off a lot more dog than I can handle, especially as she's only going to get bigger, and I'm hoping someone can give me some advice other than "you shouldn't even have a dog", which is how I feel about myself right now.

Please please do not follow this advice!!! Caesar Milan is vile. Pack theory was disproved years ago and anyone using it shouldn't have dogs!

It's the poodle in her that's wilful. They're highly intelligent (more so than others) and can be very independently minded.

She's also hit the adolescent phase where previous training goes out the window.

Keep her on the lead, keep consistent and recognise you might be in for long term training. Poodles need a lot of mental stimulation so if you can provide more of this at home, she may be less inclined to dash towards other people.

Definitely enlist a professional trainer, one that's experienced with high energy, high intelligence, reactive dogs.

You're not a bad owner, op, you just need help. People think training dogs is simple and for many it is, but dogs are as much their own creatures as children are and if it were that easy raising children then this website wouldn't exist.

Whether or not you let a dog greet another on lead will be the result of the specific dog you have, where you are, what you are doing, what the other owner/dog looks like, how you want your dog to behave in the future and probably a dozen other things.

It's neither true that an owner who moves their dog on/away has anything up their arse nor that you should 'never' allow on lead dogs to meet.

Long distances are unlikely to damage any joints unless those distances are extreme and enforced. Joint weakness is multifactorial and there has been no link found to exercise levels as a young dog. However, asking any dog to perform physical movements for which they are not yet fit enough to perform safely. An example might be twisting to catch balls.

OP: brace yourself. The next few months are the hardest. Stay calm, try to find the humour in the testing times ahead, have some faith that as your dog matures, she is very likely to become a much adored family member.

And remember, you still have time. It's OK she doesn't walk nicely on the lead yet: it's early days and if you perservere you will get there. It's OK if she doesn't have great recall yet: most young dogs forget their recall at about this age , anyway. Coming back for high value treats only if there is nothing else going on, is pretty normal. Just focus on managing the situation to reduce her chances of finding out how easy and fun it is to run off. She will improve as she gets older, with practice in low distracting ans safe areas.

A one-to-one trainer is always going to be more useful than a class. Not least, because they can give YOU one-to-one support. Having someone knowledgeable with you for the journey can make all the difference.

In short: she sounds totally normal 😊. Take heart, have patience, persist with training and have faith. If you have the dog you want by the time she is 2 years old, you're doing a-ok.

Wait, what? I thought harnesses were super important for keeping their muscles and bones healthy and reducing neck pain?

And to a PP, no I'm not glossing over behaviour suggestions or buying lots of gadgets! I'm literally researching local 121 trainers right now.

Dog won't return balls - squeaky ones are very slightly more interesting. Her favourite sort of toy is a plush one that ideally she can pull apart...

Please don't take advice from anyone recommending Cesar Millan.

It all sounds within the realms of normal puppy behaviour to me, so a decent trainer should be able to help. I don't think you need a behaviourist for this.

Our pup wasn't interested in food outside the house at all so it was all about finding out what motivated her (and it wasn't just higher value treats, I could have a whole roast chicken and she wouldn't be interested). Rabbit balls were the key for us. But this is where a decent trainer will help.

This is really kind, thank you.

With her mix, a pet gundog trainer might be worth a look.

I would always choose a harness over a lead that attaches to a collar. And have always had less pulling with them.

Much safer for the dog too.

Gundog training might be helpful but really look into how they train them, you don't want to find she gets trained with techniques of negative reinforcement. Mind you, that applies to all training.

Do you have any secure fields near you that can be rented by the hour? They were a lifesaver for us when we were practising recall but also enabled puppy to have a good run to get rid of some energy!

Also look into enrichment activities, you have an intelligent breed so it’s so important to tire them out mentally as well as physically. I do sniffer dog training with my dog which is fantastic for wearing him out.

Definitely get some one to one training too, we have done group sessions but had a 2 hour session with a gun dog trainer when he was about 6 months. He gave us a lot of good advice and also reassurance we were on the right track too.

And also remember she’s still only very young and is nowhere near fully trained yet. Get some advice, make a training plan that everyone is in agreement with and then it’s just practise practise practise, there’s no magic trick to make it work instantly unfortunately…….

My puppy is turning 1 next week and we still go to training and most of the time he’s great but there’s still areas for improvement needed!

Not read the full thread, OP, but this group is really helpful, and you can sign up for a donation to a more intensive group with behaviourists on call:

www.facebook.com/groups/374160792599484

You've received a lot of good advice on this thread, as well as some advice I wouldn't touch with a barge pole (e.g., prong collars which are horrible things). I don't think you need a behaviourist. Nothing in your description indicates that your puppy is experiencing fear, stress, anxiety, etc. A good trainer could be reassuring for you as well as offering useful advice and tips. But a professional trainer may not be necessary either TBH.

It sounds to me as though your puppy is overly friendly, excitable, and lacking in impulse control. All of those things are completely normal for her age. I don't wish to be the bearer of bad news, but I would expect that her behaviour will become even more challenging over the next few months as she enters the worst of the teenage phase. Repetition and consistency will definitely help and in all likelihood her impulsiveness will decrease as she matures.

I agree with PPs to continue working on your relationship with her so that she wants to be with you which will translate into being eager to please. I'm sure her bond with you is already strong so build on that with more games and interaction. She is absolutely adorable and you sound like an excellent dog owner. Enjoy her, keep plugging away at the training, and remember that this too will pass.

Because if a dog pulls on a collar, they can cause irreparable damage to their necks and tracheas.

Also to PPs, yes, there is a secure field locally that we can hire, but very honestly it still doesn't have the distractions that a real-world location would have (i.e. other dogs, people), so other than having a bigger space to run around, it's not that much different from our garden. And I definitely couldn't afford to hire it twice a day for exercise purposes!

I have contacted a local trainer and am waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime she will stay on the lead with me, and I will work on playing even more games with her too.

I'd highly recommend a good trainer. do your research though we've got some dreadful ones near us. The one we used had qualifications, was entirely force free, the dog loved her. She was very keen on high value treats (stilton). You have to be consistent though and all the family follow the advice.

We used sausages with our dog from a very young age for recall. You will get there.

You don't want those distractions to start with though. What you want is a safe space to allow them to run and have fun and get that energy out safely.
It's then a fab space to start proofing the recall. For reliable recall you need to make it so the dog doesn't even question doing anything but coming back. So they need to get it right 100% of the time. So the first step is to get it right in a secure space without distractions, once they are reliable then you slowly start building in distractions, new locations etc. but it has to be done in baby steps

One of the most reassuring things about our pet gundog classes was at the beginning we had a little 'therapy session' of what had gone well or not so well the previous week. :-)

We met one of our litter mates at a training class and the first thing the owner said to me is 'is she a dickhead too?!'

We have a non food motivated lab and all the advice about high value treats and scattering food as distraction drove me crazy. Pup kindly demonstrated to the trainer how that wasn't going to work. She found her love for balls at around 6 months (she wasn't very interested prior to this) which made things much easier.

Although perhaps not hugely reassuring, I guess what I'm saying is that with these sorts of breeds it all sounds like fairly normal behaviour.

A figure of eight lead was a game changer for our 40kg lab. He doesn’t like it but it works beautifully, he pulls me over on a normal lead.

I tried it too with out daughters skitzy lab when she came the other week and it was as equally good and she walked beautifully after a couple of minutes.

Please ignore this advice. Prong collars are
cruel and unnecessary. Awful

Don't worry, I won't be using a prong collar! I couldn't even bear watching her wear the Halti face collar (until she worked out how to get it off) as it looked so uncomfortable for her.

It's reassuring to hear that others with similar breeds have had similar woes - though it's still a worry to me that she's so big, and keeping us all safe in the meantime until the training starts to pay off is a worry still.

What a strange species we are: to choose to take in an animal, to love it and then to use pain to force it to do what we want.

All the while using euphemistic words to prevent us having to face what we're really doing.

Good for you, OP.

Firstly, don't watch Dogs Behaving Badly, don't watch Cesar Milan and don't listen to anything @JCoverdale said....

Also, don't panic, it is completely normal!

I think someone else recommended the Facebook group Dog Training Advice and Support, they are fantastic. They also have private groups that you can join for a small monthly fee, that give you one to one advice. For example, there is an Adolescent Puppy group, you can get loads of help and also learn by reading other peoples struggles too.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but Total Recall by Pippa Mattinson is a brilliant book to work through.

I feel your pain with the longline, it's a tricky to manage with a big, strong dog. However, whilst you're working on recall it's really important to prevent the dog practicing unwanted behaviour. You will get there though, but it does take time!

I have a similarly yobby seven month old lab who had impeccable recall but now seemingly has none. Also is jumping up like a berk. It’s the dreaded teens, there’s a good meme featuring a gorgeous tiny puppy, Godzilla, then a lovely adult dog.

So with recall I run the other way if she doesn’t come back and she comes running, it’s ridiculous but it works. I’m having to put her on with people coming along as she’s also jumping up, but we’re working on that at home (turning back on her unless she’s on all four feet).

We will both get there! Hang in and don’t give up hope, we all suffer it.

I have a 10 month old lab/pointer cross who sounds the same. She is so friendly, nosy inquisitive and has pulled both me and DH off our feet, she so strong its unreal.
We went to a trainer and only needed one session, we've had dogs before, mainly lab crosses and none were as 'bad' as this one.
We now carry high end treats, I cut up the cooked cocktail sausges and use them. It doesn't always work, sometimes she chooses chaos over treats. DD took her out this morning and she was awful. I'm just back from a walk and she was a dream I've found consistency to be crucial, I talk to her constantly using the same phrases.
Good luck, I know how soul destrying it can be, I've been in tears with my pup before, I just want both of us to enjoy a nice long walk 💐

Oh and when she pulls, you stop until the lead is slack, only then do you move forward. I’ve read that harnesses can be dodgy for their shoulders, so a traditional lead/collar combo is best, and this is the way to train them.

Oh and lots of treats, if some aren’t working up the ante to something yet more delicious apparently!

Interesting about actually meaning what you say. I can 100% get pup back with Response to Name... unless I know someone is watching... then even I can hear it in my voice that I don't really mean it! Result - pup ignores me 🙄