Unethical breeders?

[Explainthis]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but grateful to anyone who can enlighten me.

I am looking for a dog and it's a very unpleasant experience. The 'reputable breeder' of lores just seems to be a very elusive entity.
The search for one has taken me to sinister puppy farms, there are quite a few around where I live, I've discovered. Is it the same everywhere? Just one look at the 'father' or 'mother' makes you want to weep.They places are not difficult to find, can't they be regulated at all?
I am now hoping to adopt a KC registered older dog who's been used for breeding all his life and then taken to the vet by the breeder to be PD. This is standard practice with some breeders apparently. What's the point of the KC if all it does is add value for the breeder but no protection for the dog?
The internet is full of puppies that are obviously being bred for a quick buck in all impunity. Dogs are being imported from the continent, no question asked about the life that awaits them here.
Why is there so little control over unethical breeding practices?
Please tell me why nothing can be done, or how to do something about it.

There are NO ethical breeders.

People making money off the reproductive systems of animals are not ethical.

It’s not extreme to want and end to unethical animal exploitation

Once upon a time it was normal to test make up on animals. Now it’s normal not to.

The bold text doesn’t make you any more right.

The point of this conversation is how to move breeding to an ethical operation. There are multiple ways this could happen that would start to make a difference and remember, change has to come somewhere.

I find your views extreme. I’m sure you find mine unduly sympathetic to breeding. It’s ok that we disagree. But I do think that one of us, by kicking around potential solutions rather than condemnation and proclamations may have more of a chance of influencing the masses, and achieving what I suspect it both of our aims - removing animal suffering.

No, that might be your point but it isn’t mine. My point is all breeding is wrong. Any time I see a conversation on it I’m going to state my opinion. You’re not removing animal suffering my choosing a different line to me. My line is all breeding. You tolerate some breeding, some suffering and some exploitation. I don’t.

No, that might be your point but it isn’t mine. My point is all breeding is wrong. Any time I see a conversation on it I’m going to state my opinion. You’re not removing animal suffering my choosing a different line to me. My line is all breeding. You tolerate some breeding, some suffering and some exploitation. I don’t

all breeding of any animal?

should we stop completely and allow all domesticated animals to reach extinction?

genuine question btw, wondering how far you take the “all breeding is wrong” opinion.

is there any allowance for the natural drive to reproduce? Is it wrong to stop animals doing what comes naturally- for example leaving a ram in a field of ewes. Is it more a matter of breeding for profit?

where’s the line?

animals doing what comes naturally

That’s not breeding, is it.

'All breeding is wrong' is an opinion.
'People making money off the reproductive systems of animals are not ethical' is also an opinion.

It’s not extreme to want and end to unethical animal exploitation
It is very extreme if your definition of 'unethical animal exploitation' is the sort of lives my dogs' dams both enjoy. They are well cared for, fulfilled, happy and much loved.

I'm sorry, I am confused.
You tell us that breeding is wrong.

Yet your response to this causing domestic animals becoming extinct is to say that letting 'animals do what comes naturally' isn't breeding.

So, should I let my in-season bitch loose on the streets to get pregnant by whatever random intact male dog (health, temperament, drives, abilities all unknown)? And that wouldn't be breeding?

You've entirely lost me.

animals doing what comes naturally

That’s not breeding, is it

so if I have a bitch and take it somewhere where it happens to meet a dog and sneak off for a shag, that’s ok?

i just can’t introduce them with the intention of creating puppies?

No it’s not my point. It’s the absolute point of this thread.

Your opinion is valid. But it doesn’t actually offer any sensible and viable alternatives to the utopia you endorse.

It’s becoming clear that we won’t find any common ground due to absolutism, so probably best for me to disengage with you so that we don’t continue to go round in circles.

Which raises an interesting point. If there was a sensible cap on the amount you can sell a dog for, one would hope that the shit backyard breeders would lose interest.

Just come back to the thread to find I’m evil and immoral, lovely.
My breed is amazing, but it’s in danger of being ruined by crap breeders. I home board a few badly bred ones and the differences between them and mine are stark. Allergies, bad conformation, slightly neurotic, anxious.

People who have educated themselves and want a nice looking, well adjusted puppy to do a specific job are never ever going to rescue.
None of my puppies will end up in rescue, I speak to their owners regularly and see about half the litter in person, and if I was to die or be incapacitated (I’m 38, so I hope not in the next 15 years) my sister will take the puppy if something was to go wrong for their owners.

Incidentally, despite 18 years of continuous dog ownership from when I first moved out of home, NEVER have I been in a position where any rescue would have let me have a dog! Tiny rented house with an unfenced garden, living in a shared house also with an unfenced garden, working full time (the dogs came with me), and now 7 month old twins. All my dogs have lived long and happy lives. Should I not have had any dogs then?
Should I not have dogs now?

People who have educated themselves and want a nice looking, well adjusted puppy to do a specific job are never ever going to rescue

it’s not just that. I scoured every rescue and sent in applications nearly every week for two years.

even though I was a perfect candidate on paper, I found many rescues work on a first come first served basis. They don’t match the dog to the home. So i’d phone, book an appointment for the following day, only for a walk in to see the dog and reserve it that afternoon. I had countless appointments broken because I couldn’t get there immediately and someone else could.

We signed up to Champdogs for alerts of KC registered litters.

Yes the thread went somewhat off the rails sorry about that. You illustrate perfectly how the rescues rules, which are necessary, can sometimes be too rigid for everyone's good. What are your dogs @bollocksthemess? They are splendid but I can't find the breed.

@Reallyreallyborednow we had this too. Maybe try a smaller rescue?

@AlwaysLatte as I have now sadly realised, KC registration is no guarantee of good breeding, or good breeding practices.

@Explainthis they’re Hungarian Vizslas. Lovely kind dogs who will love you with a devotion that my previous terrier would have thought was completely beneath her, and also hunt, point and retrieve if required.
However, they’re quite intelligent and high energy and will run rings around an inexperienced or unprepared owner. My first one could open the front door, the fridge, and the oven!
They’re also quite full on as puppies and very very mouthy, so not suitable for people with very small children unless they’re prepared for the small children not to really like the dog and be separated for a while.
When I was breeding to get a daughter from my first one, after all the conformation and health tests and show results I also went to visit each potential stud dog and I chose the softest, most laid back one I could find.
As a result I ended up with a litter of beautiful dogs on the easier end of the Vizsla spectrum. The worst behaviour report I’ve had is that one liked to ask to play when the couple was trying to work from home, then immediately fell asleep at 5.30pm when they wanted to start doing training.

We wanted to rescue but ended up buying a pup because none of the local rescues cat tested. There was one rescue however who specialised in Romanian/Spanish street dogs that said they had cat tested a dog they were pushing the hard sell on us even though he had known food aggression with cats! There was alot of blaming of different fosters and them saying the other was a liar, and the one that talked to me on the phone was condescending and pushy. Naturally I said no and went with my instinces and got a good ol mutt from a council estate. Brought up with mum and another adult female dog in a clean house full of kids and normal house noise. Well socialised with all aged humans and not scared of men. The adult dogs were healthy. I don't care what their reasons were to breed, accident, otherwise, I just wanted the right healthy dog for our household. I'd got very bad vibesh looking at pups online bred in dirty looking kennels, no thank you!