Close to despair re separation anxiety

[GiantCheeseMonster]

Just that, really. Dog is 11 months old sprocker spaniel. We did everything by the book - not leaving him to cry as a puppy, micro-absences of a few seconds, room flitting etc. As he grew older it became increasingly obvious he couldn’t tolerate being alone at all. We have Julie Naismith’s book and use her sub-threshold training which got him to a minute alone but now he’s regressed again and I’m back to doing door is a bore and even that freaks him out. I can’t imagine ever being able to leave him for ten minutes, let alone pop to the supermarket. We haven’t been out as a family for months without paying for a dogsitter which is getting expensive and I want to be able to nip out spontaneously - just to go to the neighbour’s for a drink, FGS. We feel trapped in our home and it’s starting to affect our relationship with the dog as it’s so hard not to feel resentful. I’ve read so much online advice and we had a trainer (IMDT registered) who told us to use the sub-threshold method. I am happy to carry on but I just feel that after 5 months of it I should be seeing some progress and I’m not. DH would rehome the dog as he’s so fed up with not even being able to put the bins out without taking him with him on a lead. Any advice or stories of hope are most welcome but please be gentle, I feel at breaking point with it today.

We take him for long walks daily, play games with him (Absolute Dogs courses, that kind of thing) and do scent work and puzzle feeders, Kongs etc so he gets lots of enrichment, before anyone suggests that. We’re good dog owners I think, but this is something on a level I never anticipated.

It takes time but also he’s getting to the age all the hormones start to come into play so you will feel like 5 steps forward 10 steps back

keep building up the time, and find a good dog sitter for times you want to go out.

You have my sympathies and empathy. I think separation anxiety is one of the hardest behaviours to live with.

We should not judge by breed but spaniels have a huge genetic disposition to separation anxiety and this is nothing that you have caused, there is nothing you have done that has created the SA in your dog. It will be there in the genes.

People need to recognise how difficult it is living with a dog with SA and you have huge respect from me for all that you have done.

You are right that after 5 months you should be seeing some progress and if you are not then you do need help to tweak things.

Julie does have a lot of success with her programme but there is a more modern train of thought that finds with some dogs it can make them worse. Obviously a dog with SA will have general anxiety so the fliting from room to room and door is a bore can actually ramp up the anxiety in dogs.

It may be worth having a chat with a qualified behaviourist with vet backing who can help with medication and look at a different approach.

It is not as simple as this but the idea is that the dog has a clear indication when you are leaving. You have a physical object that shows you are leaving and this only comes out when you leave. This means that 98% of the time they are calm and not being hypervigilant to if you are leaving, then when you leave they are more emotionally able to cope. Loads of steps and things to do to help with this.

Thanks. We have a dogsitter but it’s expensive and she’s not always available. Tomorrow I have to leave him for two hours for a work meeting. I feel I should be able to leave him home for that (after a long walk and a play) but he will bark and howl the whole time and I live in a terraced house. Unfortunately she’s not available tomorrow, my parents aren’t available and the other sitters I’ve tried aren’t. I’m sitting here stressing as I don’t actually know what to do. It’s not a case of “should’ve thought of that before getting a dog” - I did. I largely WFH and when I go out it’s like this, maybe two hours at a time. I’d never get a dog and leave it alone all day but I assumed a couple of hours would be fine. My other dogs previously were always OK for that length of time and would just sleep. This one panics and howls the whole time.

Thank you. The problem is money is really tight at the moment (not helped by paying for a dogsitter a few times a week just to leave the house). I am willing to try anything but the thought of paying again for a help is daunting. Where would I look for someone who uses this method?

I understand the cost implications of having a dog with SA and also your reluctance to spend more when you have not seen any progress so far.

Many of the APBC Members will use this method. Do email quiz etc before commiting to more money. Zoom calls will work for this kind of issue so that does widen the area a bit more and may be cheaper than face to face meetings but eqaully as beneficial.

As you have done some Asolute dog course Tom at Behave Vet does group consutations that will be cheaper than 121.

Are you insured? If so most good insurance companies will pay for behaviour consultations.

I apologise if this is inappropriate but for some households a dog with SA is impossible to live with. For other homes it is not an issue eg retired people at home, even a working home where the dog will be with the handler a lot of the time. Sprockers are ace scent detection dogs.

I have wcs for work and I will study 5 generations of the breeding to ensure that there is no SA in the dogs genetics - this is not always easy for pet dog owners to do.

Thanks again. He came from a really good spaniel breeder with a national reputation for breeding cockers and Sprockers, parents health tested etc, but yes, no way of knowing about SA. A friend has two dogs from the same breeder with no issues at all. He loves scent work and I do try to “work” him as I know he needs it - when he’s a bit older I’d love to do agility with him as I think he’d love it. In every other way he’s a brilliant dog - great with our kids, training is coming on well, he’s good at recall etc. It’s just the SA is ruining our lives, bluntly.

He is insured so I’ll see if they cover consultations and I’ll look at your links - thank you.

My own dog has separation anxiety too OP - I have every sympathy as it's a really, really difficult condition to live with and lots of people don't understand it. Even seasoned dog owners don't "get it" most of the time and will tell you "oh, just leave them, they'll be fine" when you know full-well they won't be fine.

Flitting in and out is often recommended on these threads, but unfortunately it can make some anxious dogs even worse, as it means they're constantly on edge waiting for you to leave and come back again.

You say your dog howls and cries when you're out - have you actually recorded him to see whether it's constant? My own dog is prone to this but actually, he stops after a minute or two and only starts again when he hears my car. So, to me it seems like it's constant but actually, he's mostly quiet when I'm gone - though this has taken me four years to build to.

Yes, we have a camera and I’ve watched him - it’s constant. We’re back down to door is a bore now so he doesn’t get chance to cry at the moment but before we started the training (so going back a few months) we tried leaving him for up to an hour and he howled the whole time.

Does he have a calm doggy friend who doesn't have SA? Would you be able to have his doggy friend over to play a few times, and, once the doggy friend is used to your house and with its owner's permission, leave them together at your house for ten mins and see if your boy takes his cue from his friend and is a little more settled?

Disclaimer: I'm not a dog trainer and I haven't tried this myself, but I know that Many Tears etc often want a calm resident dog in situ before they will rehome anxious dogs, so maybe it would work for your boy too.

Is he overtired/overstimulated? They still need a lot of sleep at this age and often stressed behaviour can be due to build up to not enough sleep. Too many/too long walks, too much enrichment play can sometimes be counterproductive and you’d be better encouraging him to sleep more.

Its still really young to be left happily for a lot of dogs. Ours was over 2 before we left with no issues, I know it sounds ages away but it just suddenly got better and we could leave no problem at all for several hours. Nothing we did, just a maturity thing.

I wouldn’t be taking with you to put the bin out, just leave him. Same for popping to shop etc. Try not to stress as they pick up on your anxiety so much more than you think. If you get in the mindset of I’m going to the shop for 10 mins, he’ll be absolutely fine, he may pick up on your acceptance and be much better.

He gets lots of downtime (he’s asleep now as I’m writing this).

honestly, we have left him for 5 mins and he goes frantic. We stopped trying to just leave for small amounts as it was making him worse. I don’t think popping to the shops (which I can’t do in less than an hour anyway) would help him.

Where do you put him when you leave? I set up a pen attached to a crate for my boy eye when he was young - basically took up half my living room! So the crate door was open and he could go in and out of that or he could
sit in the pen area on a bed or on the floor. A behaviourist told me that would help to make him feel secure when I was out 🤷‍♀️ Might help

i would say that he is still young. My spaniel
was INSANE until he was about two and half and now he’s totally chilled

are you taking him out and about with you sometimes? Again my boy used to get over excited in pubs restaurants etc. but now I can take him anywhere which helps

i hope it gets better as he grows up

oh alosnrescue remedy plug in worked surprisingly well for me - didn’t solve the problem but def chilled him out A I had plugs in throughout my house 24/7!!!

We take him everywhere we can (trying to save on daycare and still have a life!). He’s great in pubs, public etc. In fact in pubs people are often surprised by his young age as he’s so chilled! If he’s with people he’s fine.

We’ve tried crating or not crating to leave him, makes no difference (he’s quite happy to be in his crate when we’re home).

plug-ins - yep, got those too, does nothing (the cat likes them though and rubs herself on them!). Have tried calming supplements which didn’t work but maybe he needs actual meds.

I really appreciate the replies and I know I sound negative. It’s just this has been taking over our lives for months and it feels we’ve tried everything.

What a nightmare will the breeder have him back?

I’m sure she would have him back. It would be devastating for the children though. I really want to get him through it if I can. I just feel totally stuck.

Sounds really hard. Is he neutered yet? That can help. Although I think you’re not meant to get it do me until at least 18 months for growth plates.

have you got a good vet? I used to give my boy Valium for car rides he used to freak out so much - but he’s good now. Were prescribed by the vet obvs.

Have you tried going out for five minutes at the exact same time every day to get him used to that and knowing exactly how long you'll be gone? and then build it up from there. Sorry if unhelpful, just brainstorming

I cannot tell you how much I feel for you because we are in a very similar position- did everything right as a puppy, but it just became clear that our dog was not happy to be left at all for any length of time. Also tried the Julie Naismith method, paid the £90 for the app etc, started with door is a bore. After weeks of literally thousands of trips from the living room to the front door, we never achieved more than a few seconds of quiet before the howling started. Getting to even 20 mins to let me dash to the corner shop felt like it would take years. And my experience tallies with yours- the howling does not stop. If I had a dog who howled for a little while but did settle, I would probably still leave them- but we have done the same as you by experimenting with a longer duration to see if it does eventually stop and no, it doesn't.
My thoughts on the Julie Naismith method are that in so, so, so many of the so-called 'success stories', the dog also started medication. So it is impossible to know whether it was the method that was successful, or the medication. We have approached our vet for medication, but they were not willing unless we completed a lengthy course of sessions with a behaviourist (£150/hour). And then the medication would cost upwards of £100/month.

Apologies that I am not being very useful, but I just wanted to say that you are not alone and it is not your fault. It is absolutely soul destroying and not what you signed up for when getting a dog, and I hope your situation improves!

He gets lots of downtime (he’s asleep now as I’m writing this).
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honestly, we have left him for 5 mins and he goes frantic. We stopped trying to just leave for small amounts as it was making him worse. I don’t think popping to the shops (which I can’t do in less than an hour anyway) would help him.

I meant more like the corner shop type thing for 5 mins/putting the bins out/sorting car or whatever.

I’m wondering if you are taking him everywhere you go - that’s a lot of stimulation/time not sleeping. Sleep can make a huge, huge difference and is often underestimated in the affect on behaviour. It’s more natural for us to think they need a walk/need playing with rather than settle them down to sleep. I’m sure it’s something like 18 hours sleep in a 24 hour period. Some need more, especially when younger.

Leaving him for an hour to do your shopping though honestly isn’t the end of the world. I know it’s hard to see him upset but at the end of the day, it is a dog and he’s left somewhere safe and familiar for a short period of time. It’s not like your leaving him in a kennel outside in the cold for 8 hours while you go to work.

Look up Herbal Pet Supplies ‘Chill drops’ they are an all natural company, chill drops have amazing reviews for helping to calm pets, great for fireworks too.

Where does he sleep at night? Is he in the crate then? I wonder if you could start covering the crate completely at night and then when he’s used to that, use the same technique during the day? Maybe with a sheet so some light filters through, but he can’t see where you are?

If I lived in a detached house I would leave him for a hour and let him cry. But I don’t, and it’s just not fair on my neighbours. The howling is constant, I’ve watched/listened on the camera.

He sleeps in his basket in our bedroom. We’ve tried in/out of crate and he has it (open, with a blanket over) as an option if he wants it.

I was going to ask the same - if he's ok at night being apart from you, could you get him used to being in a covered crate with music on at night then do that in the day when you need to leave him for a period of time?

It’s awful, isn’t it. I don’t think it’s comprehensible until you’ve got a dog with SA how nothing seems to work. It’s a total phobia of being alone.

Oops sorry cross posted, I still think it might be worth getting him used to sleeping in a covered crate, even if that crate is in your bedroom.