Close to despair re separation anxiety

[GiantCheeseMonster]

Just that, really. Dog is 11 months old sprocker spaniel. We did everything by the book - not leaving him to cry as a puppy, micro-absences of a few seconds, room flitting etc. As he grew older it became increasingly obvious he couldn’t tolerate being alone at all. We have Julie Naismith’s book and use her sub-threshold training which got him to a minute alone but now he’s regressed again and I’m back to doing door is a bore and even that freaks him out. I can’t imagine ever being able to leave him for ten minutes, let alone pop to the supermarket. We haven’t been out as a family for months without paying for a dogsitter which is getting expensive and I want to be able to nip out spontaneously - just to go to the neighbour’s for a drink, FGS. We feel trapped in our home and it’s starting to affect our relationship with the dog as it’s so hard not to feel resentful. I’ve read so much online advice and we had a trainer (IMDT registered) who told us to use the sub-threshold method. I am happy to carry on but I just feel that after 5 months of it I should be seeing some progress and I’m not. DH would rehome the dog as he’s so fed up with not even being able to put the bins out without taking him with him on a lead. Any advice or stories of hope are most welcome but please be gentle, I feel at breaking point with it today.

We take him for long walks daily, play games with him (Absolute Dogs courses, that kind of thing) and do scent work and puzzle feeders, Kongs etc so he gets lots of enrichment, before anyone suggests that. We’re good dog owners I think, but this is something on a level I never anticipated.

No advice just solidarity - it’s very hard. Our cocker is 13 now and we can’t leave her alone at all as stress brings on a pancreatitis attack. She’s always had acute separation anxiety - wants to be in physical contact with you the whole time, and barks and howls the entire time if left. I used to leave her for a couple of hours to go to work meetings, but she’d still be barking when I got back. We tried lots of things, nothing ever made any difference.

The breeder said ‘she’ll be your little shadow’ after I’d met three generations of her line - I wish I’d known how very literally she meant that!

He will sleep happily in a crate and has done so in holiday cottages etc. He’s no better being left in one though, we’ve tried it both ways. He adores his car crate so we’ve tried that and it doesn’t help either.

Get another dog to keep him company?

Have you tried a thunder vest? My labrador is anxious, though no SA. It works wonders for her.

If I lived in a detached house I would leave him for a hour and let him cry. But I don’t, and it’s just not fair on my neighbours. The howling is constant, I’ve watched/listened on the camera.

Totally understand re: neighbours, lovely and considerate of you.

Can you leave him for 5/10 mins at a time rather than an hour. Not at a time when neighbours in bed in morning/putting kids to bed. Knock and explain your really sorry about the howling, you’re trying to work on it.
I would definitely not be taking him with you on a lead to put bins out and similar. That won’t have any impact on your neighbours for a couple of minutes and will help to reaffirm to him you come back.

Have you tried going in/out house several times in a row and totally ignoring him? Out front door, wait 2 mins back in - ignore, pretend to be busy, get bin, out front door, back in, ignore. Pretend to be busy in diffident room—get car key, out again drive round block, back in ignore, etc.

Feel your pain. We have a whippet with bad SA...

Will have to sort it for family reasons but really no clue.

Please don’t consider neutering at this stage- testosterone is a confidence giver and if your dog is nervous the removal can make problems worse

what about a high value treat like an ostrich bone (or whatever works for your dog) tied securely to the back of a crate or similar so they can have it IF they choose to be in a separate room to you think reverse flitting - dog is choosing to be away from you and not looking for when you leave and getting into the habit of monitoring your movements.

your at a tough age when it is typical to see regressions. Good luck

Just a supportive post to say I understand a bit of your despair.
I posted the other day about my friend who is actually consideri f give up her cavapoo who sounds exactly the same as your spaniel in terms of SA but he can't even be with someone else happily.
He is only happy with her in particular. She is now ill so can't care for him properly. Shems completely distraught but has tried everything, including working with a behaviourist etc.
It's such a tricky thing to deal with. So sending big understanding hugs.

If he's anything like my friend's dog, a huge part of the problem is he is not food motivated AT ALL - you could dangle a roast chicken in front of him and he couldn't care less which is what makes trying to train him so hard.

Our dog used to cry when left but this was solved by accident when we realised that if she could see out of the window she was happy to sit and watch until we return. She now happily stays on her own for up to a couple of hours. Is this something you could try if you're happy for your dog not to be crated?

Do you know , as hard as it is, some dogs and owners are a bad match. Neither one is at fault..it's really just the way it is. Maybe consider talking to the breeder about trying to rehome him with people who are there 24/7 and few commitments ..worth a thought.

I just knew you'd get lots of well-meaning posts saying "leave him in a crate" or "just leave him for an hour even if he cries".

If you've never had a dog with separation anxiety, you really don't understand how soul-destroying it can be. No, you can't just leave them in a crate because when they're that anxious, they will hurt themselves trying to escape, or make themselves vomit with anxiety. They'll pee and poo and end up rolling around in their own mess.

Or if you leave them loose, they will howl and cry which is 100% unfair on them and the neighbours, or they'll become destructive and you'll return home to no sofa, or ripped up carpets or worse, destroyed walls and doors. There was a dog on one of Victoria Stilwell's programmes who ate his way through window frames and leapt out of a second floor window as he was so scared to be alone.

They won't just "be okay".

I largely WFH. I’m talking about wanting to leave him for a couple of hours a couple of times a week. It’s literally no more than that.

This is basically the method we’ve been trying 😞

I feel for you OP, and you sound like a lovely dog mum.

my friend acquired a 13 year old Yorkie after her partners mum passed away. She had severe anxiety and stayed indoors with the dog pretty much constantly. Unsurprisingly the dog is a ball of anxiety bless her, and they can’t leave her at all, particularly her partner who can’t even pop to the loo without her freaking out.

the vet didn’t want to prescribe anything but said she can zylkene when they take her somewhere new like camping which she doesn’t cope well with.

tbh I wonder if they’d be better off putting her to sleep, I know that sounds harsh but I wonder how much quality of life she has the poor thing. And Yorkies tend to go on and on I believe.

This is 100% it. I’ve had dogs all my life and they’ve all been fine being left. I had no idea what SA was like and how badly it affects the dog until we got this one.

I don’t want to give up on him. In every other way he’s lovely. Great with everyone, great with other dogs, so affectionate and wants to please. If I could just leave him for an hour and know he would sleep life would be perfect. It just feels completely unrealistic that I’ll ever be able to do that though. I shit you not, I’ve considered moving to a detached house except I can’t afford one!

Here’s the little horror pretending butter wouldn’t melt.

Oh I just remembered that a fiend who had this problem with a little bichin has a reasonable degree of success with the pet remedy collar

This is basically the method we’ve been trying 😞

I really feel for you, it’s so hard but a lot does come to maturity, it will get so much easier when he’s a bit older. Persevere with leaving him as much for your mental health as anything.

They really do pick up on your stress. Once I’d resigned myself completely to saying fuck it, it’s a dog at the end of the day and he’ll have to be left cos that’s life, it got so much better. I was less stressed as I stopped putting all my mental energy into fixing it. I accepted the alternative would be to re-home which I felt was curler and I couldn’t do to kids.
I decided I’d still work on it but he’d just have to be left sometimes whether he cried or not. It was like he’d picked up on my acceptance and lack of stress and was much happier to be left. I know it’s easier said than done but something inside me just went one day ‘ I can’t put this amount of mental energy into a dog, I’m going the fucking shops’😆

It’s just the impact on the neighbours. Honestly, in a detached house I would be leaving him (not all day obviously but for an hour or two) and letting him cry. But they could definitely hear him if we left him, it’s just not fair.

It’s just the impact on the neighbours. Honestly, in a detached house I would be leaving him (not all day obviously but for an hour or two) and letting him cry. But they could definitely hear him if we left him, it’s just not fair.

I complexly get where you are coming from. I’d at least speak to the neighbours and explain/apologise to help take your stress away when you do leave him for short periods or the odd time you have no option but to leave him for an hour or two. At least they’ll know you are aware and are only leaving when there is no other choice.

I honestly never thought we could go out without the dog at all but we go out very frequently for hours with no issue at all. I really couldn’t have imagined it was possible. Like with babies/toddlers it gets so much easier as they get older.

If you've never had a dog with separation anxiety, you really don't understand how soul-destroying it can be. No, you can't just leave them in a crate because when they're that anxious, they will hurt themselves trying to escape, or make themselves vomit with anxiety. They'll pee and poo and end up rolling around in their own mess.

Yes, I have a couple of friends with dogs where this is the case, both spaniels. And they've done everything 'right' from the beginning. Both now working with behaviorists.

It does seem that nature has a bigger part to play than nurture for the cases I know. We did everything 'wrong' with our dog in terms of being left alone. Before 8/9 months was probably only left alone for max 15 mins a couple of times, but she can be left with no issues at all now.

Hmm my SA dog was a spaniel too.

have you had his eyes tested?

He's absolutely gorgeous xx

i hope you can get this sorted, if you're near me in, I'd happily take him for a walk, come for a play/company when you go out. I'll PM you my post code. I know it doesn't solve the actual issue, but if it worked out it might help until you get his SA sorted!

I feel your pain! Our dog is the same, she's nearly 3. I WFH 3 days, DH 1 day and she's at daycare the other day. Before we got her, we assumed, like most dogs we know, that she'd be fine with the occasional few hours on her own at home. She's not - she howls and cries and barks the place down.

Sometimes I have to attend work meetings for a couple of hours and so far have managed to get someone to cover each time. I stress constantly that a long meeting will come and no one will be able to have her. Daycare is fully booked up, and it's too infrequent and expensive to have another dog sitter - she'd have to go regularly to get used to them, and not many I've found will accept ad hoc bookings.
We've only been out once as a family since she arrived, and a family member she trusts had her for a few hours

We too have found that the Julie method makes her more on edge. I also find it really difficult to do as my work needs proper hours of concentration and regular meetings, so it's hard to be consistent with that training.

A few times recently I've had to leave for 30 mins or so before someone can get to the house to be with her, and I've have had success with a kong filled with peanut butter, frozen. That takes her a good 20-25 mins to get through. I try to make sure she's walked before hand, and shut in a room with her comfy donut bed. I watch her on the camera and if she starts whining I speak a bit, so hopefully she thinks I'm still in the house.
When we first tied this, she wouldn't even look at the kong, she'd go straight to howling, so her response is much better now

She's got better with age. And me leaving her with my husband and daughter more, as my social life gets better after Covid. She sleeps in her crate in the utility at night, so we're too scared to leave her in her crate when we leave in case she then associates it with being left and stops sleeping so well at night 😂

So you're not alone. I have no answers. But sending you hugs x

Oh meant to add - our vet wouldn't prescribe meds (and I wouldn't want her spaced out all the time and with the side effects they have tbh) but did advise a behaviourist. Behaviourist recommended the Julie method basically. So that hasn't had any impact.

I do find that Zyklene tablets do seem to lessen the anxiety in her though