Our dog bit ds in the face and drew blood

[Differentusernametoday]

please be kind, I am really shaken and need some support.

We have an 11 month old springer. We have a few issues with him, mostly anxiety related, and are waiting to see a behaviourist. I don’t trust him because he has growled at us before, and has bitten my hand and snapped at me, although to be fair both times I feel we’re partly my fault. This afternoon, he was on the sofa bed put down for guests - ds2saw him and told him to get off, apparently dog growled at him, ds tried to move him and dog bit his face and has drawn blood. Currently waiting in a&e now. Ds2 is devastated and knows he should not have tried to move him when he had already growled, and blames himself. I feel like I have reached the end of the road and I can’t live with a dog I don’t trust, but it will break ds3’s heart if we rehome him, but in some ways it will be a huge weight lifted. What would you do?

read the thread @HotWashCycle no toddlers involved, the child who was bitten is 13.

@Mum070322 I’m not a dog expert

This is very obvious, your posts aren't very well-
informed.

OP, I'm glad you've decided to return the dog to the breeder. It sounds like the right decision. This could be turned around but it would take the right owner with absolute dedication to their dog. Spaniels aren't easy breeds.

@HotWashCycle

An idiot (sorry) who thought it was a good idea to bring a new dog into the home of a one year old, and then leave the child with the dog when it had already bitten someone!

The dog is 11 months.

The kids are oldest 13 and youngest 10.

"Cuddling and bending over a dog isn’t a weird thing to do it’s perfectly normal

as someone who’s had 4 dogs throughout my life I’ve never had an issue regardless of the dog was sleeping or eating. None of my dogs were trained to act in any way other than to sit and come.

I’m not a dog expert but personally just think some dogs have issues people aren’t always at fault"

I agree. Our last spaniel also came from a gamekeeper. The children were young when we got her. Although I took certain precautions around feeding time and meal times, shutting her away, it's fair to say the children would share biscuits etc with her and cuddle her and generally play with her. She was a lovely dog who was perfectly behaved around children.

Years ago I had a Rhodesian Ridgeback. I was cautious about training as I read up about the need to assert pack leader position. From being a puppy I would sometimes give him his dinner and then remove it before rewarding him and giving it back. On the one hand I think a dog should be left in peace to eat its dinner. On the other hand if I want to remove food from a dog for some reason I should be able to do so without fear that I may be bitten.
I don't really think I can take credit for training though, he wasn't a particularly food orientated dog and it was never a problem.
In fact I have no memory of training him around things like walking to heel. He just liked to be close to me and walked beautifully to heel on and off the lead as well as coming when he was called.
He wasn't allowed on the sofa but I doubt he would have wanted to, he preferred to be left in peace on his bed and I respected that. But when he had difficult ear surgery (Ridgebacks are prone to certain ear problems I discovered) he was such a big dog I couldn't put a lampshade thing on him he was crashing about with it. So I left it off and reminded him not to scratch his dressings whenever he did. And at night I put a blanket in the bed and he slept on my bed. Guess what. I cuddled him in the night. He may have been in pain or asleep or confused but HE DID NOT JUMP AND BITE ME!

Oh and why did I give the dog a chew? Because as a busy young dog he would spend the evenings roaming around looking for something to chew. If he had a chew he would generally lie peacefully on his bed enjoying his chew and we could have a quiet evening. The same as lots of owners and dogs do. And young dogs need something to chew - teething and entertainment.

I don't think it matters whether the dog is in "attack mode" or not. The issue is it reacted to the OP's son and bit him. That is one bite too many for a family pet and he bit the OP as well.

I am glad you are returning the dog to the breeder, hopefully they will find a more suitable home for it. Maybe it's just too many people in the house for it.

@BlackEyeSusan please stop posting. You're woefully uninformed to the point of being dangerous. NEVER remove the food bowl from a dog. It's much more effective to train them to accept human intervention by placing a treat in their bowl while they're eating. As I said earlier, pack theory has been debunked. And you're basically defending your poor decisions by saying it was for an easy life? Well that's obvious. But irresponsible.

Sounds like the Breeder is doing the right thing, which is good.

Hope your DS isn't in too much pain.

@Differentusernametoday
At least the breeder is able to take the dog back, as any responsible breeder should, at any age or stage of the dog’s life, no matter what the reason.
Below is a contract that came with one of our dogs-
The person who bred her has taken two dogs back that she bred, an 11 yr old when the owner went to a Nursing home, and a 2 yr old when the owner got promoted overseas.
If someone breeds, they owe a duty of care to that dog for life.
A working Spaniel isn’t ideal for kids in my opinion- but at least she’s taking him back.
A good outcome for all.
He may get a good working home with zero kids.

NO - it couldn't be simpler.

Edit: Dog contract here:

On the other hand if I want to remove food from a dog for some reason I should be able to do so without fear that I may be bitten.

Yeah, you teach a solid leave it. You can also teach give, swap, drop and back up.

And you never remove a dogs food while they are eating. Ever. I use the above commands only when the dog has something they are not allowed and it is taught with a low value treats not their fucking meal fgs.

Removing a dogs meal while they are enjoying it is a surefire way to create a nervous, reactive dog with a guarding issue. I normally use swap and swap for something of equal or higher value. I would only use drop and back up if I had no treats to hand and the dog had something dangerous.

It's posts like this that make me wish people had to sit an exam before being allowed a dog.

I grew up with a dog of this breed. Years ago, my parents knew nothing about proper training and didn’t do much. The dog was quite spoiled, had a playful character and was a friend number one to me and my siblings. Absolutely amazing dog it was. I sometimes cry because I miss my dog even though I’m nearly 40. The dog was somewhat scared of my dad, maybe thought he was a leader or something… could do naughty things being with us children ant home, but once my dad was back from work, the dog’s behaviour used to change momentarily lol.
Our dog bit me once. I don’t remember the circumstances, maybe I accidentally hurt it somehow by stepping on its paw. There was no blood but there was a bruise on my leg. I never told my parents and it never happened again. The dog looked so guilty, was hiding under the bed for ages. It was clearly a one off.
What I’m trying to say…. I love dogs so much but I wouldn’t dare to have one until I’m ready, maybe when children grow up. I’m so sorry my children are missing out on having such a great pet but I will have to do what you have to do now OP. The line’s crossed. The dog can’t stay after harming your child. Hopefully new owner will be a better fit. Saying that, maybe we were lucky but back then our dog did so well without a proper training. Maybe some dogs have temperament/issues that can’t be fixed in the long run and sometimes they are won’t a great fit for the children. I know knowledgeable people will offer better advice, but I feel for you.

This is very upsetting for you all but you must rehome the dog. You now know the dog will bite, so if it does it again (only worse), what's your defense?

My mother had an aggressive rescue border collie. It went for my face once while I was sat chatting, but it was my fault because I looked at it! I had to stop taking my children to my mother's, even if she put the dog in a different room (after 20 mins she'd always ask if the dog could come in with us - NO!). If the dog had bitten one of my children, when I knew it was unpredictable and potentially aggressive, how could I have lived with that? I love dogs btw and have one of my own.

Totally agree, I hate those "my kids can do anything with the dog" attitudes. It's setting dogs up to fail and be labelled dangerous as a result, when usually it's humans not understanding dog behaviour then ignoring their clear signs asking them to sod off. It it's eating, leave it alone. If it's sleeping, leave it alone. If it's chilling out in its bed, leave it alone. Don't try and ride it like a horse, blow in its face for a laugh, or get it in a headlock cuddle it. Just leave the poor things alone.

This.

Either re-home and make it VERY CLEAR that the dog can't be trusted with children, or have him euthanised.

I know that's a horrible suggestion regarding a young, healthy dog, but if you think he might bite other people - adults as well as children - that's the kindest thing to do. Otherwise he will either bite someone and be euthanised anyway, or will end up being passed from home to home until he doesn't know whether he is coming or going.

The suggestion of a breed rescue is the best one - they will know what can be done with him and will have people who know the breed who may take him on.

Also - they will ensure he's castrated if he isn't already. This dog must NOT be bred from, even by accident. This could be a fault in temperament, rather than just over-excitability, and you don't want to risk propagating it.

W have a springer who is very anxious and can't be trusted with other dogs because she snaps out of fear. She's never even growled at a person, but I never let children approach her, or anyone she seems shy of. As I say, she hasn't ever bitten, but I wouldn't take the risk. I do regret getting her, but we love her, and as we are an adult household, and she is very affectionate with family we can manage her. We don't let visitors pet her though - always let her see who's in the house, but then keep us by our side.

Please take it to be put to sleep, and please don’t get another dog. You have allowed it to attack your child, you should not be allowed pets.

This sort of situtaion is why i believe (and really wish) that anyone wanting to have a dog should have to go through some training themselves, and be tested on that training before they get to own the dog. After passsing the test they should apply for a licence, that license should then have to be shown to a breeder or rescuee centre. I'm so fed up of animals having to pay the price for human's ignorance and stupidity.

Don't bloody buy puppies becsue they look cute and you have some wistful dream of how you think owning a dog will be!

Thundercloudsarecoming and others:
The reason I thought the DC was one when OP got the dog was that the dog was 11 months old then, and she refers to DS2, which I took to mean that he is two years of age now.

It was done out of nervousness/anxiety/fear. So you don't have a dangerous, aggressive dog, you have a dog with some issues that can be worked on

I disagree. Biting from fear/anxiety is worse IMO because you can't always predict what will trigger it.

Dog can be fine for months, and you relax your guard - then apparently out of the blue it will launch an attack. You may never find out what has prompted it. It might be just a warning snap, or it might not - but it's very anxiety-making to live with, and if the owner's nerves are on edge, that will be picked up by the dog and will make it more nervous.

Your husband and you let a dog get its jaws around a baby’s head?

Or you could just work with the dog to build their confidence so they are no longer anxious...

Time to get rid OP, though I’m not sure how keen anyone will be to rehome a dog who has growled at and bitten both adults & children
You may need to prepare yourself for the possibility of dog needing to be pts

"This was a single, light, bite as a warning" from JenGin makes me aghast.

Me, too.

The first bite a dog makes is a barrier crossed. When they've done it once, it is increasingly likely that they will do it again - and there will be an escalation in severity. A dog doesn't become a sever biter in a flash - it builds up gradually as the dog gets confident in its own power.

Just like abusive men, actually. A push, a slap, a punch, a hammering.

Where the fuck do people get this bollocks from? Can we start adding canine behaviour to the national curriculum please because some of this rubbish is actually terrifying.

It’s great news that the breeder is taking him @Differentusernametoday