Small or medium dog - mini/toy poodle, bichon, maltese or westie?

[icelolly12]

Hi,

Here to pick your brains please..

I'm looking to get a small/medium dog, but keep reading up on various breeds and struggling to make a decision. I am mainly looking at the breeds of mini/toy poodle, bichon, maltese or westie, but open to other breeds too. What I am looking for:

-A dog that doesn't bark much - this is where I'm struggling to get useful info, websites just say 'low/average/high barking' for example but what does this mean in reality for the above small breeds? I really really do not want a 'yappy' dog this would drive me mad as I have noise sensitivity.

-Able to socialise easily with other dogs when walking - I don't want to be that dog owner that everyone hates. What small dogs are less likely to suffer from little dog syndrome? I know a lot is down to socialisation, but some breeds are more prone to being happy around other dogs than others.

-Low shedding/hypoallergenic, low scent and low drool - I don't want a stinky dog like a beagle or a spaniel although I love these dogs, they're not for me.

-easy to housetrain - this is where I'm a bit concerned about a bichon as they're difficult to housetrain apparently?

-Happy to snuggle up on the sofa in peace and contentment while watching tv/reading/chilling - gentle, happy companion dog

-Very affectionate and loving. I want a dog that is owner focused not a cat like dog that doesn't really care that much.

-Happy to come out for both short and long walks - bit worried about some smaller breeds stamina for long hikes as I do like to go for long hikes at weekends etc and obviously want a dog to join me.

So in summary, a sweet, calm loving dog that doesn't bark a lot and will also be great to take across the moors/hills/beach for nice long country walks at weekends.

Any specific experience of breeds would be great in relation to the above points particularly relating to barking- 'yappiness', walk ability- stamina and companionship.

Thanks in advance :-)

Everything you've written screams miniature poodle to me.

I have a 1 year old. Obviously a lot of it will be down to how you train etc but my boy completely fits the bill.

He is just has happy with a 20 min blast around the field or a 3hr hike

@OohMrDarcy

Everything you've written screams miniature poodle to me.

I have a 1 year old. Obviously a lot of it will be down to how you train etc but my boy completely fits the bill.

He is just has happy with a 20 min blast around the field or a 3hr hike

Oh great!

Thanks for the info about being happy about a long hike as I don't want to cause any damage to their little legs and was feeling a bit concerned about this!

What about yappiness? Is he a barker?

Obviously you need to build up gradually to help their fitness, and it wouldn't be suitable for a little pup, but as long as you go at the dogs pace whilst developing I've not had an issue.

He isn't massively barky at all, some days nothing at all. He does have his moments when he is unsure of something, but he was a lockdown pup who was also unwell when he came home, he couldn't go for walks before 4.5 months so confidence is something we are still working on (plus he is now a teenager so back to basics) when we focus on his training he is good as gold so I have no doubts that this will settle down as he gets older.

We have a Westie.
He doesn't really shed,

he does bark if things invade his home ( including birds flying over the garden or animals on telly) .

He could walk quite far, but is wanting much less as he gets older.

He has skin/allergy issues (lots of Westies do) that cost about £100 a month to treat for his comfort.

He is a people dog, lots of snuggles, lapdog pretensions. Will socialise with other dogs, but most he simply tolerates.

Lovely dog, lovely temperament, don't think he would suit you now he is 10 as his favourite thing is to go lie alone in the sun waking occasionally to bark at the birds.

Thanks for the info about being happy about a long hike as I don't want to cause any damage to their little legs and was feeling a bit concerned about this!

Smaller breeds are generally better for long distance than large ones :) so you really don't need to worry as long as you build up to things properly.

@OohMrDarcy

Obviously you need to build up gradually to help their fitness, and it wouldn't be suitable for a little pup, but as long as you go at the dogs pace whilst developing I've not had an issue.

He isn't massively barky at all, some days nothing at all. He does have his moments when he is unsure of something, but he was a lockdown pup who was also unwell when he came home, he couldn't go for walks before 4.5 months so confidence is something we are still working on (plus he is now a teenager so back to basics) when we focus on his training he is good as gold so I have no doubts that this will settle down as he gets older.

Aww he sounds lovely!! Thanks for your advice, I'm definitely veering towards a minature poodle now!

Another breed you could consider is a cairn terrier.

Similar in size/shape/temperament to Westies but without the skin issues.

Thanks for this @BeyondMyWits. I think a minature poodle might be more suited to me, but your Westie sounds fab and I do love the look of them, I think it's their ears that make them look so adorable!

Are Cairn Terriers yappy? @icedcoffees I will do further research into these breed thank you.

More quick info for you-
Super intelligent so very easy to train, toilet training was a non issue. Tricks can be learned in minutes - downside, you need to be consistent!

Affection - he is currently laid across my lap looking adoringly at me 🤣 always over the moon to see anyone in his 'gang'!

Fur - doesn't shed, doesn't smell, doesn't drool. Downside - regular grooming needed. I've opted to clip mine myself as didn't want a traditional poodle clip, I just run the clippers over every couple of weeks

Definitely no little dog syndrome here

In my experience toy/mini poodles bark and whine all of the time. They are very vocal and yappy. They are also prone to separation anxiety.

Westies are very prone to skin issues and and can also be very fiesty! Very much a proper terrier.

@icelolly12

Are Cairn Terriers yappy? *@icedcoffees* I will do further research into these breed thank you.

They're no more yappy than any other terrier I don't think!

The one I walk is a fantastic little dog - will walk/run/swim for ages for hours, but is just as happy with a 20 minute walk around the block. She's very much a people dog, no health conditions except a fatty lump that was removed when she was two.

She needs grooming every 8-12 weeks or so but it would probably be possible to keep on top of it yourself if you had the patience!

@OohMrDarcy aww I love the sound of the looking at you adoringly. This is exactly what I want in a dog!

@Leonberger have you had poodles yourself?

Not a Maltese. Never in a million years get a Maltese. Get a mini poodle and do proper training to not end up with an under socialised nightmare.

Westies are definitely barky. They do fit the bill for you in all other regards though.

If you go for a reputable breeder who considers skin issues, you can avoid problems. Skin problems tend to affect white dogs for some reason, so bichons can also be affected. I don't know whether white poodles are affected though. It might just be breeds that only come in white.

My westie, who is 10, is still well able for long hikes of about 3 hours (we'd rarely go longer than that ourselves but I expect she'd be able for more). The major drawback with her is the barking. She barks at anything in the garden.

@icedcoffees I must admit I do love the look of the terriers. The grooming isn't a problem I live near to plenty of dog groomers and would also do daily brushing myself. I like the sound of their activity level too.

However, I do like/need a lot of quiet time, e/g. quiet reading, pottering around, so I'm concerned that a dog barking whenever there's a bird in the garden or a postman would drive me mad over time.

@OchonAgusOchonOh Ah..Barky is a big no no for me so I think I will have to discount the Westie unfortunately as adorable as they are!

That's interesting why definitely not a maltese @SunInFog

I have never owned any of the breeds listed so actual owners may come on with a very different viewpoint but it was my understanding that pretty much all of the toy breeds are renowned for yapping.

If you were specifically looking for a quiet breed and really couldn’t handle the idea of a dog ending up barking even after training, then none of the breeds listed would be ones I’d be looking for tbh.

Westies and cairns are terriers and terriers arent a group id assume to be particularly dog friendly either.

@icelolly12 I work with dogs so meet a lot of poodle and poodle crosses and in my experience the vast majority are very vocal.

My MIL also used to breed them but does not now. She still has 2 left and they bark all of the time, if someone passes the windows or knocks but more annoyingly if she moves around the house they tend to whine and yap and suffer from separation anxiety. One of them is less vocal than the other but both are very talkative!

My best friend also has a toy poodle, she is friendly, active and well trained but again is loud! She probably walks it more than I walk my large dogs and she still is bouncing off the ceilings

I think they can be lovely dogs but they really do need a lot of time, training and effort. More than people think!

[quote icelolly12]@icedcoffees I must admit I do love the look of the terriers. The grooming isn't a problem I live near to plenty of dog groomers and would also do daily brushing myself. I like the sound of their activity level too.

However, I do like/need a lot of quiet time, e/g. quiet reading, pottering around, so I'm concerned that a dog barking whenever there's a bird in the garden or a postman would drive me mad over time.[/quote]
You can get window film to put over your glass to stop them being able to see as much outside.

The one I walk only really barks at the postman or anyone who dresses in the same colour as the postman

All terriers are barky but it's certainly not constant. I have a breed known for being vocal (beagle) and at home he's honestly pretty quiet. He barks at the door and at his dinner time but otherwise not.

Most barking can be trained out of them - you train them to bark n command and then teach them the "quiet" command. There are some great videos for it online :)

That's interesting about white coats and skin problems, @OchonAgusOchonOh as I've heard white cats are prone to this too...

We have a chipoo (chihuahua, toy poodle cross - bit of a happy accident actually). She would tick all your boxes. Super cute, friendly, affectionate, clever and easy to train.

@Leonberger Thanks definitely food for thought. Do you have any ideas for suitable dogs? I don't really mind about the size itself, but it tends to be smaller dogs that are hypoallergenic and companion dogs.

Skin problems tend to affect white dogs for some reason, so bichons can also be affected. I don't know whether white poodles are affected though. It might just be breeds that only come in white
It’s all white dogs I believe, white dogs are genetically a different colour, the white spotting gene comes and removes the colour, like painting over a wall.
White spotting gene is linked to allergy and when it covers the head deafness aswell.
Dilute, like blue, lilac/Isabella, chocolate is also linked to allergy I believe

Aww @ggo2lightlyyour dog is absolutely gorgeous! I would definitely consider a cross breed, e.g. poodle mixed with a low barking breed...just need to figure out what these low barking breeds are that meet my other requirements...