Small or medium dog - mini/toy poodle, bichon, maltese or westie?

[icelolly12]

Hi,

Here to pick your brains please..

I'm looking to get a small/medium dog, but keep reading up on various breeds and struggling to make a decision. I am mainly looking at the breeds of mini/toy poodle, bichon, maltese or westie, but open to other breeds too. What I am looking for:

-A dog that doesn't bark much - this is where I'm struggling to get useful info, websites just say 'low/average/high barking' for example but what does this mean in reality for the above small breeds? I really really do not want a 'yappy' dog this would drive me mad as I have noise sensitivity.

-Able to socialise easily with other dogs when walking - I don't want to be that dog owner that everyone hates. What small dogs are less likely to suffer from little dog syndrome? I know a lot is down to socialisation, but some breeds are more prone to being happy around other dogs than others.

-Low shedding/hypoallergenic, low scent and low drool - I don't want a stinky dog like a beagle or a spaniel although I love these dogs, they're not for me.

-easy to housetrain - this is where I'm a bit concerned about a bichon as they're difficult to housetrain apparently?

-Happy to snuggle up on the sofa in peace and contentment while watching tv/reading/chilling - gentle, happy companion dog

-Very affectionate and loving. I want a dog that is owner focused not a cat like dog that doesn't really care that much.

-Happy to come out for both short and long walks - bit worried about some smaller breeds stamina for long hikes as I do like to go for long hikes at weekends etc and obviously want a dog to join me.

So in summary, a sweet, calm loving dog that doesn't bark a lot and will also be great to take across the moors/hills/beach for nice long country walks at weekends.

Any specific experience of breeds would be great in relation to the above points particularly relating to barking- 'yappiness', walk ability- stamina and companionship.

Thanks in advance :-)

Have you thought about a whippet? Sounds like the characteristics you want.
I’d suggest a greyhound would suit- but they definitely aren’t small or even medium sized dogs.

@QueenofLouisiana I don't think they are hypoallergenic though... which is a key requirement for me. But yes otherwise they sound very loving and gentle.

I don't think they are hypoallergenic though... which is a key requirement for me. But yes otherwise they sound very loving and gentle
No dog is hypoallergenic but given that whippets and greys have no undercoat and very short, fine hair I would expect them to be more allergy friendly than most.

@icelolly12 smaller breeds are not really my thing but with your list for myself I would choose a whippet.
Clean, quiet, don’t need mountains of exercise, very little in terms of health or genetic disease, never really met one with aggression or serious issues.

My other choice would be a cavi. They are generally very happy lovely little souls that don’t bark. You would have a dodge a lot of dodgy breeders and health issues to get a nice one though which is a huge shame.

I also quite like Tibetan terriers, very much less of a ‘terrier’ than most and the ones I have met haven’t been vocal at all but you might be better off asking breeders directly if they did interest you!

I think if you want to avoid vocal you would be better off avoiding lots of the tiny toys and terriers. Poodles/spaniels are working dogs and need a lot of stimulation and exercise.
I wouldn’t touch anything brachycephalic either due to preferring my dogs to breathe nicely.

My list is generally small though as working with dogs does make you see lots of the bad- especially bits owners tend to gloss over!!

[quote icelolly12]@OchonAgusOchonOh Ah..Barky is a big no no for me so I think I will have to discount the Westie unfortunately as adorable as they are!

That's interesting why definitely not a maltese @SunInFog[/quote]
They are generally a crazy breed. Notoriously so. They were breed to sit on laps so they struggle with being alone, other dogs, can be aggressive, known for being barkers.

Also the breeding lines are throughly messed up in trying to get "tea cup" sized dogs.

I have one (adopted before I knew better!) I know lots of them.

To be honest op, I think your requirements might be a bit unrealistic. I don't think you'll get everything you want in one dog. However, as pp said, training, which requires a lot of time and effort, can be done to improve behaviours.

I would also be wary about going for a cross breed with the expectation that you will get the characteristics you want. You may end up with the best of both or the worst of both. Most likely, you will end up somewhere in between but no way to predict which traits you get.

@OchonAgusOchonOh. Well my key requirements are hypoallergenic and low barking and good companions... I don't mind investing a lot of time in training but obviously some breeds you can't fully train instinct out of them...

I am thinking a poodle is maybe my best bet, or a carefully chosen poodle cross with a good breeder. Will look into a cavi @Leonberger

We rehomed a miniature poodle a couple of years ago. She came to us as a bit of a barker around bigger dogs, but we have trained her out of that and now she's very happy to meet other dogs on walks. She has a small bark when the post man walks up the drive, but stops when we reassure her.

She is a lovely dog and wouldn't be without her now

[quote icelolly12]@QueenofLouisiana I don't think they are hypoallergenic though... which is a key requirement for me. But yes otherwise they sound very loving and gentle.[/quote]
There's no such thing as a truly hypoallergenic dog.

Some shed less than others but it's the saliva/dander that people are often allergic to, and all dogs have both.

I am happy to exercise a lot like I say I enjoy long hikes etc so that aspect isn't an issue.

The breeder I went through had 3 poodles themselves, they barked a couple of times when I knocked the door and that is the only time I heard them bark (weekly visits from before birth until collection)

Mine has no issues with separation anxiety either... I make sure he has had a walk before leaving him for more than half an hour but other than that it is a non issue. He sleeps in his crate downstairs too. Being a people oriented breed it is definitely possibly for it to happen but also possible to avoid.

All the things like barking and being left will depend massively on how you train

I think training is really important. There are no guarantees to avoid barking but you can start on day one by rewarding your pup for not barking in key situations (doorbell, people coming into the house, other dogs barking, waiting for food etc). Obviously a dog may bark when unsure or scared but I think lots of barking may be avoided with training early on.

@icelolly12 - Well my key requirements are hypoallergenic and low barking and good companions... I don't mind investing a lot of time in training but obviously some breeds you can't fully train instinct out of them...

I think you probably need to prioritise then. Less allergenic is the most predictable of your requirements so it should be easy to do a list of those breeds. Most of those are good companions too. However, most of them also tend to be barky so that is probably what you will need to compromise on. Given you're willing to put the effort into training, I would go for one that tends to be easy to train. You also need to look at the potential health issues of the breed and see how best to avoid those issues.

Cairn terriers are brilliant little dogs I've had them all my life. They do bark but not yapok, current one will bark at the Sainsbury's delivery van, thunder and and bird that dares to fly over our garden.

@idontlikealdi

Cairn terriers are brilliant little dogs I've had them all my life. They do bark but not yapok, current one will bark at the Sainsbury's delivery van, thunder and and bird that dares to fly over our garden.

How very dare the bird do that!

[quote OchonAgusOchonOh]**@icelolly12* - Well my key requirements are hypoallergenic and low barking and good companions... I don't mind investing a lot of time in training but obviously some breeds you can't fully train instinct out of them...*

I think you probably need to prioritise then. Less allergenic is the most predictable of your requirements so it should be easy to do a list of those breeds. Most of those are good companions too. However, most of them also tend to be barky so that is probably what you will need to compromise on. Given you're willing to put the effort into training, I would go for one that tends to be easy to train. You also need to look at the potential health issues of the breed and see how best to avoid those issues.[/quote]
Good advice thank you. I am veering towards a poodle or poodle cross, but its obviously a minefield at the minute with the popularity of these breeds and dodgy breeders as a result.

If you need "hypoallergenic" then the worst thing you can do is go for a poodle cross!

@icedcoffees poodles can be crossed with other hypoallergenic breeds...

I think @icedcoffees point of view is that there really is so such thing as hypoallergenic breeds. Plus cross breeds can go either way, and spaniels shed like craaaazy

I grew up with Westies and I wouldn't recommend for the reasons you have specified. Too intelligent for their own good, they are very difficult to train and ideally require experienced owners imo.

'-Low shedding/hypoallergenic'
They shed all the time

'-easy to housetrain'
They are very intelligent and will understand what you want them to do very quickly. However they also figure out very quickly that there is no need to do what you would like them to do, unless there is something in it for them.

'-Very affectionate and loving.'
They are very affectionate, but are very demanding. They will not leave you alone until you snuggle, pick them up, stroke them etc.

'-Happy to come out for both short and long walks'
They have an exceptional amount of energy for small dogs and one short walk a day is not enough for a Wesite. They had far more energy than my rottie x.

It's also worth noting, they do tend to be yappy.

Goodluck with your search! I'd like to say; Westies are wonderful and I love them as a breed, but perhaps are not what you are looking for.

[quote icelolly12]@icedcoffees poodles can be crossed with other hypoallergenic breeds...[/quote]
My point is, there's no such thing as a hypoallergenic dog....

Yes, some dogs (poodles, bichons, Yorkies) won't shed but that doesn't mean they're hyopallergenic.

www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care-of-your-pet/looking-after-your-pet/all-pets/hypoallergenic-pets

"Fact: Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but, technically, hypoallergenic dogs (and cats) don’t exist. You can get some breeds that shed less and some people find that less shedding means they have less of a reaction, but you’re very unlikely to find a dog that that leaves you 100% allergy-free!"

People tend to be allergic to the saliva and dander, and you're never going to find a saliva and dander-free dog!

Yes true I guess what I mean is low shedding breeds. A poodle will probably be my best bet as long as I can get one that is fully health tested and well socialised from a puppy in a good caring family home. Then I can train at home to reduce anxiety and barking.

I would just go for a pure-bred, non-shedding breed. There are plenty of breeds out there that don't shed - there's really no need at all to cross them.

We got a Yorkie pup in Feb and he is the sweetest, quietest, most loving, cuddly friendly chap you could ever wish for.
Very submissive but friendly with other dogs.

Can walk for miles as proven on recent holidays but equally happy with tiny walks.

Hypoallergenic fur.

He's brilliant.

Tibetan Terrier (not a Terrier but an all round utility dog!)