Small or medium dog - mini/toy poodle, bichon, maltese or westie?

[icelolly12]

Hi,

Here to pick your brains please..

I'm looking to get a small/medium dog, but keep reading up on various breeds and struggling to make a decision. I am mainly looking at the breeds of mini/toy poodle, bichon, maltese or westie, but open to other breeds too. What I am looking for:

-A dog that doesn't bark much - this is where I'm struggling to get useful info, websites just say 'low/average/high barking' for example but what does this mean in reality for the above small breeds? I really really do not want a 'yappy' dog this would drive me mad as I have noise sensitivity.

-Able to socialise easily with other dogs when walking - I don't want to be that dog owner that everyone hates. What small dogs are less likely to suffer from little dog syndrome? I know a lot is down to socialisation, but some breeds are more prone to being happy around other dogs than others.

-Low shedding/hypoallergenic, low scent and low drool - I don't want a stinky dog like a beagle or a spaniel although I love these dogs, they're not for me.

-easy to housetrain - this is where I'm a bit concerned about a bichon as they're difficult to housetrain apparently?

-Happy to snuggle up on the sofa in peace and contentment while watching tv/reading/chilling - gentle, happy companion dog

-Very affectionate and loving. I want a dog that is owner focused not a cat like dog that doesn't really care that much.

-Happy to come out for both short and long walks - bit worried about some smaller breeds stamina for long hikes as I do like to go for long hikes at weekends etc and obviously want a dog to join me.

So in summary, a sweet, calm loving dog that doesn't bark a lot and will also be great to take across the moors/hills/beach for nice long country walks at weekends.

Any specific experience of breeds would be great in relation to the above points particularly relating to barking- 'yappiness', walk ability- stamina and companionship.

Thanks in advance :-)

I know the KC and the miniature poodle club/society or whatever they are called only recognise solid colours. Many backyard breeders of all breeds make colour e.g. blue merle a priority over health/temperament and a big selling point with a matching price tag. Just beware; knowledgable reputable breeders are likely to only have poodles of solid clouds
Unless there are health problems associated with the colour eg dilute, Merle, white I really don’t think breeding ‘non standard’ colours is an issue tbh.

Especially when the KC themselves permits problematic colour genes in certain breeds, for example allowing Merle in Border Collies but not Chihuahuas, allowing white in German Shepherds, sorry, Swiss Shepherds but not in German Shepherds despite white cropping up in GSD since forever....

Our Havanese is OUR best friend. He adores us but is relatively indifferent to strangers.

See, our Havanese loooves other people. He loves us obviously but if we have guests over he would much rather play and cuddle with them than us! He loves meeting (human) strangers out and about too but he is a bit more cautious around other dogs. He’ll say hello and play if he has a moment to warm up to them but he gets put off if they’re too much in his face to start with. Every dog really is different though, so best not to pin too much on particular characteristics of particular breeds.

Agreed re woofing rather than yapping. It sounds like the bark of a much bigger dog. Mine rarely barks but if he does, it’s one or two warning barks at a passing pigeon, rather than the incessant non-stop barking of our neighbour’s Jack Russell! Even ‘barky’ dogs can to some extent be trained to be quieter though, and no matter what breed you get you need to be prepared for some work in training good habits/ignoring and not reinforcing bad habits!

OP, I wonder if you would consider a standard poodle? They have all the brilliant aspects of miniatures but tend to be a lot less barky/yappy. I think they are the perfect breed for most people tbh. They do require daily exercise but they don’t need to go for miles each day - it’s more important to exercise their brains and give them regular training/game time, but that applies to the smaller poodles just as much.

These all sound like requests for a specific dog, not a breed, but in my experience, most of the small dogs youve mentioned here are very often yappy and neurotic. Possibly not the poodles. Ive heard good things about poodles

What about a Bolognese?
Similar to a Bichon or Havanese.

I think i'd love one
Or a Maltese
Or a Yorkie
Or a Long haired Chihuahua.

Thank you all for your knowledge and experience you've certainly given me plenty of food for thought!

I think I will now have to spend time researching specific breeders - I think either a minature poodle or a bichon would be a good choice for me or a cross of the two. Also love the sound of your lovely schnoodle @adoreyou!

Hopefully I won't have to wait years for a puppy @poodlefan although I appreciate good breeders won't have puppies on tap and will have a high demand.

I really want a puppy rather than an older rescue @ItsDinah as I want to train the dog myself and have had experience with rescue dogs that had behavioural problems, plus at the minute with the high dog demand even rescues have waiting lists. Plus I don't want to get a dog in it's latter years when they have health issues etc, as I want a healthy dog to come and join me on long hikes etc.

Not sure about a standard poodle @GiantCheeseMonster they are huge!

Thank you to everyone who has shared pictures and stories of your lovely dogs. If there's something that's guaranteed to make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside it's a dog and their antics!!

Now for more research...

@Powertothepetal

I know the KC and the miniature poodle club/society or whatever they are called only recognise solid colours. Many backyard breeders of all breeds make colour e.g. blue merle a priority over health/temperament and a big selling point with a matching price tag. Just beware; knowledgable reputable breeders are likely to only have poodles of solid clouds Unless there are health problems associated with the colour eg dilute, Merle, white I really don’t think breeding ‘non standard’ colours is an issue tbh.

Especially when the KC themselves permits problematic colour genes in certain breeds, for example allowing Merle in Border Collies but not Chihuahuas, allowing white in German Shepherds, sorry, Swiss Shepherds but not in German Shepherds despite white cropping up in GSD since forever....

I sort of agree but dedicated knowledgable breeders who know all about a particular breed what health checks are essential and what line breeds well with another etc tend to breed to the standard set out by the breed club especially as they are likely to want to show there dogs as part of proving that Thor dogs conforms to the requirement said down by that breed. Miniature poodles are known to be extremely healthy and long lived.

I sort of agree but dedicated knowledgable breeders who know all about a particular breed what health checks are essential and what line breeds well with another etc tend to breed to the standard set out by the breed club especially as they are likely to want to show there dogs as part of proving that Thor dogs conforms to the requirement said down by that breed
True, but equally, the KC is essentially just a registry and the breed standards make me uncomfortable as there are a good percentage of breeds where the breed standard is not compatible with optimum health.

I have bought a chihuahua puppy and I feel they are a relevant breed here with regards to the breed standard not supporting optimal health in some breeds.

Initially I was looking at a KC breeder but the Apple head shape described in the breed standard makes the chihuahua classed as a brachycephalic breed and at risk of BOAS, the dome shape as with Cavaliers is linked to Chiari malformation/Syringomyelia and hydrocephalus.

The pup I’ve bought is not KC registered and is out of two poor quality/less extreme apple heads.
They arent quite deer head but nor are they the breed standard ‘Apple’ shape, I believe some people refer to them as pear heads.

I wanted a health tested puppy but not a single KC breeder I contacted did anything other than a patella score despite chihuahuas being prone to a number of (testable) diseases.

Ultimately, my puppy wouldn’t get far in a show even if he was registered, but the parents of my puppy have a healthier conformation than the ‘breed standard’, they have lovely temperaments, I have visited multiple times and very confident they aren’t a puppy farm/dealers so I am very happy with my choice I’ve made.

The only thing I would say to the OP is if going for a poodle cross is be wary as they are very, very popular for puppy farms.

Miniature poodles are known to be extremely healthy and long lived
They are, as are mongrels and working breeds bred for working not show.

Standards are bigger than the other breeds, yes, but they’re not huge - Labrador size but not as stocky. If you’ve got your heart set on a small dog they don’t fit the bill, but on the other hand it seems very important to you not to have a highly strung or yappy dog and that’s always more likely with smaller ones.

Obviously some of the standards laid out by the KC I suspect in conjunction with the individual breed society’s are ridiculous I find nothing more abhorrent that a squashed face bulgy eyes dog that clearly can hardly breath.
But I’m writing about miniature poodles who are known to be exceedingly healthy and long lived who don’t suffer from any ridiculous deformities. Dedicated breed knowledge breeders of them are committed to breeding healthy dogs and it’s highly likely that those dedicated knowledgable breeders will be members of the breed club and also show and therefore know that only solid colours are acceptable. So I was warning the OP that if someone is selling a poodle that is not a solid colour then she needs to approach the breeder with caution. We all know that there are plenty of back yard breeders around who are purely breeding for monetary gain and we all know that unusual colours can command higher prices.