People walking cats and rabbits on leads in parks

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

Utter fools. Do they not like their pets?

I've come across this at least 4 times now - people (all different!) walking cats and, in one case, a rabbit, on a lead.

In all cases, these are parks where dogs are allowed off lead and the vast majority are off lead. Including everything from ex-racing greyhounds to terriers.

I spoke to rabbit woman and pointed out the dangers. She said she'd just pick the rabbit up - while seemingly failing to account for the fact greyhounds can travel at 40mph and jump higher than she could possibly lift the rabbit.

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly. They then decided to stop sitting down in the park and instead FOLLOW US through the park.

Presumably when it goes wrong they'll be whining that the dog was out of control - but presumably they'd also be whining if they wandered out blindfolded onto a 70mph road and got run over. It's asking for trouble.

I'm not convinced cats or rabbits enjoy being walked - and surely the much safer / more pragmatic option would be to walk them somewhere where dogs aren't allowed to be off lead?

Let's pray this doesn't catch on as a trend

LST
And that is fundamentally the problem, despite the fact that the law allows dogs to be exercised off lead, there are a loud minority of people who think that if they shout loud enough and tell people they should have their dog on a lead, that makes it so.

They've not worked out that public spaces are for everyone, including people using a public space in a way that doesn't suit their preferences

@LST yes I know
It doesn’t unfortunately. A law that I really hope
Will be changed in years to come for the vast majority of public spaces

@LolaSmiles

LST And that is fundamentally the problem, despite the fact that the law allows dogs to be exercised off lead, there are a loud minority of people who think that if they shout loud enough and tell people they should have their dog on a lead, that makes it so.

They've not worked out that public spaces are for everyone, including people using a public space in a way that doesn't suit their preferences

It’s there for everyone yes, but no people would come running up to you jumping on you or sniffing round your bum/ food/ bag. If you have your dog off the lead it better not come up to me or my kids within touching distance. Might spoil your day if it does

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages @Veterinari I know I was the one that brought up the law but I think arguing about the specifics of the law is a bit pointless because I imagine hardly anyone is prosecuted anyway-even when injuries occur. I know people who have been bitten by dogs on walks and there’s been no cctv so it’s hard to progress the case unless there is a serious injury. So I think it’s more just a case of being considerate and aware that people don’t always like dogs and keeping your dog under control, which a lot of people do. It’s just sad that people are scared of public spaces because of the risk of out of control dogs, and it’s hard to tell immediately if a dog is under control or not if it’s off lead. In a lot of places, if you want to enjoy a picnic/green space it’s hard to avoid off lead dogs so I do think “having a picnic somewhere else” is more challenging than keeping your dog on a lead when the park is busy such as sunny bank holidays.

I also think that it’s hard to determine what a “reasonable risk of injury” is. Should we expect people that have never been around dogs and children to be able to read dog body language/know what is aggressive behaviour and what is friendly? Friendly dogs sometimes jump up at people and this is a very scary prospect, and a very real risk of injury for elderly/frail people so I think it’s reasonable to be scared that any medium/large dog could injure you if it jumped up. I’m confident around dogs but have been worried I’ll be injured when off lead dogs approach my on lead reactive dog and I have to put myself in the middle of them or touch a strange dog to keep it away from my dog. I think that’s a reasonable risk of injury.

Ive seen people walking cats round the nature reserve i and hundreds of others walk their dogs. Fucking idiots. I was lucky we saw it and put my dog on a lead, and the other dog doesnt chase cats, but stil, it shows very little understanding of cats anyway. They have their territory and they are comfortable sticking to it. They dont tend to like new places, and also, the more their territory is expanded, the bigger the danger they are in.

[quote WiganNorthWest]**@AvocadosBeforeMortgages* @Veterinari* I know I was the one that brought up the law but I think arguing about the specifics of the law is a bit pointless because I imagine hardly anyone is prosecuted anyway-even when injuries occur. I know people who have been bitten by dogs on walks and there’s been no cctv so it’s hard to progress the case unless there is a serious injury. So I think it’s more just a case of being considerate and aware that people don’t always like dogs and keeping your dog under control, which a lot of people do. It’s just sad that people are scared of public spaces because of the risk of out of control dogs, and it’s hard to tell immediately if a dog is under control or not if it’s off lead. In a lot of places, if you want to enjoy a picnic/green space it’s hard to avoid off lead dogs so I do think “having a picnic somewhere else” is more challenging than keeping your dog on a lead when the park is busy such as sunny bank holidays.

I also think that it’s hard to determine what a “reasonable risk of injury” is. Should we expect people that have never been around dogs and children to be able to read dog body language/know what is aggressive behaviour and what is friendly? Friendly dogs sometimes jump up at people and this is a very scary prospect, and a very real risk of injury for elderly/frail people so I think it’s reasonable to be scared that any medium/large dog could injure you if it jumped up. I’m confident around dogs but have been worried I’ll be injured when off lead dogs approach my on lead reactive dog and I have to put myself in the middle of them or touch a strange dog to keep it away from my dog. I think that’s a reasonable risk of injury.[/quote]
Yep. I've said repeatedly that dog owners should be considerate. As should everyone.

But leash laws are poor for dog welfare and expecting every dog owner to drill their dog's recall in the offchance they see a rabbit in the park on the lead is unrealistic. Keeping dogs on leads wouldn't negate the risks to rabbits/cats either

It also entirely ignores the welfare and health risks for rabbits and cats on leads

Ah, ok Veterinari - I think you misunderstand me one way or the other, so will bow out of this sub-discussion with you now. No funny faces in response.

@steppemum

What is the difference between a cat and a small dog from a distance?

1. dogs rely on smell more than sight and can smell another animal from hundreds of feet away. Cats and dogs do not smell the same.
2. if you look at cat moving and a dog moving for 5 seconds you can see that they move very differently. Dogs, can see the same. A cat running across the road moves differently to a dog running across the road.

From a distance across a park I’m not sure you can see movement but I take the point about the smell. I’m just not clear why a dog would attack a cat and definitely not a small dog if it has such a high prey drive? Personally I don’t think it’s very appropriate for a pet to be attacking any animal in a public park whether it’s a pet or a wild animal. If you can’t guarantee recall then you need to use a lead.

It’s there for everyone yes, but no people would come running up to you jumping on you or sniffing round your bum/ food/ bag.
If you have your dog off the lead it better not come up to me or my kids within touching distance. Might spoil your day if it does
Here we go again, someone else confusing off lead with out of control, complete with silly threats to sound intimidating

It's really worrying how many people don't seem to grasp the difference between off lead and out of control feel inclined to dictate how other people use public spaces within the law.

From a distance across a park I’m not sure you can see movement

well, you may need glasses, but really, if you can see it, and it is moving, you can see if it is a squirrel, cat, rat or dog. Honestly, at the furthest limit of my sight (and dogs see further) you can see the flow, ripple of movement and they all move differently. Sometimes I see something and wonder - what's that. Then it moves, and you know.

You may not see it, especially if not familiar with different animlas, but the dog does. Onc eyou know it is obvious

@LolaSmiles

It’s there for everyone yes, but no people would come running up to you jumping on you or sniffing round your bum/ food/ bag. If you have your dog off the lead it better not come up to me or my kids within touching distance. Might spoil your day if it does Here we go again, someone else confusing off lead with out of control, complete with silly threats to sound intimidating

It's really worrying how many people don't seem to grasp the difference between off lead and out of control feel inclined to dictate how other people use public spaces within the law.

The trouble is that so many dog owners now don’t seem to know that difference. Everyone (including dogs) have the right to walk in a public space without another human or animal jumping up at them or coming too close. If your dog never goes up to anyone else then fair enough but you are in the minority. Why on earth should I put up with dogs jumping up at me and my kids? I don’t know that dog or owner. I hate dogs, don’t want them near me and I won’t be friendly to one if it comes within touching distance. Why should I?

I think the problem is that quite a sizeable minority of dogs are not trained adequately to be allowed off lead. I’m sure many dog owners feel the same as a lot of them are a nuisance to other dogs as well as people

Any if you mean I am dictating how others use the public space I.e. letting their dog jump at me then yes, I am bloody dictating it!
If I shout at your dog to go away or push it off me and it bites, who’s going to come off worse?

@Quit4me

Any if you mean I am dictating how others use the public space I.e. letting their dog jump at me then yes, I am bloody dictating it! If I shout at your dog to go away or push it off me and it bites, who’s going to come off worse?

What does this have to do with the OP? Or are we just anti-dog ranting now?

Well, this started as a thread about is it sensible to walk cats and rabbits on leads, and once again, as is so common on mn, it has disintegrated into a bun fight about whether or not dogs should be on the lead all the time or not.

Really, this is brought up 1,000 x per day.
It is almost as if people can't understand that there are different types of park, different areas where dogs are walked, different owners, and different types of dog!
Extraordinary isn't it?

@Veterinari I was replying to @LolaSmiles
My original point was that no dogs should be off lead anyway, so it wouldn’t matter is someone was walking their cat, rabbit, mouse or toddler. No one would have to put up with a dog too close to them

[quote Quit4me]**@Veterinari* I was replying to @LolaSmiles*
My original point was that no dogs should be off lead anyway, so it wouldn’t matter is someone was walking their cat, rabbit, mouse or toddler. No one would have to put up with a dog too close to them[/quote]
So yes then an anti-dog rant
There's no requirement for well trained dogs to be in lead all the time. Of course there is etiquette around managing your dog considerately, but being on lead all of the time is not part of that

@LolaSmiles

It’s there for everyone yes, but no people would come running up to you jumping on you or sniffing round your bum/ food/ bag. If you have your dog off the lead it better not come up to me or my kids within touching distance. Might spoil your day if it does Here we go again, someone else confusing off lead with out of control, complete with silly threats to sound intimidating

It's really worrying how many people don't seem to grasp the difference between off lead and out of control feel inclined to dictate how other people use public spaces within the law.

I agree that there is a big difference between out of control and off lead and under verbal control. The difficulty is being able to tell which off lead dogs are under control and which aren’t. You may know that your dog has good recall and is not a danger to anyone but other park users don’t know that, so I don’t blame anyone for being wary of all off lead dogs (which is a shame) as there are too many out of control dogs these days. I’m not sure if all dogs having to be on lead all the time is a fair solution though.

Quit4me
2 doggy rants within minutes of each other. Nice.

Anyway, as I was saying off lead does not equal out of control. Yet again, you are still struggling to tell the difference and have resorted to speaking in hyperbole to make your points. If the vast majority of dogs were as you say then the parks would be very different to how they are, and those of us who walk our dogs once or twice a day would be having endless issues with all these awful creatures.

Your dislike of off lead dogs has absolutely no impact on other people's ability to exercise their dogs appropriately.

As many of us have said on this thread, public spaces are for everyone. That means people can use it in ways you might not like, or ways you think are silly (which is what I think about walking a rabbit on a lead through a park). The bottom line is we don't get to dictate what others do.

My original point was that no dogs should be off lead anyway, so it wouldn’t matter is someone was walking their cat, rabbit, mouse or toddler. No one would have to put up with a dog too close to them
Yes, I know your original point.
And like I said you can 'should' all you like, but people are able to exercise their pets within the law and don't have to cater to your preferences.

[quote Quit4me]**@Veterinari* I was replying to @LolaSmiles*
My original point was that no dogs should be off lead anyway, so it wouldn’t matter is someone was walking their cat, rabbit, mouse or toddler. No one would have to put up with a dog too close to them[/quote]
but it would matter for the cat or the rabbit.
Because my extremely well behaved dog could walk past you on a lead, and ignore your rabbit/cat, and it would still massively stress out the rabbit especially and porbably the cat.

The owners of the rabbit and cat should not be putting them in that position. This is not really about how well behaved or otherwise the dog is, but about how what a bad thing it is for the rabbit and the cat.

Another thread in the doghouse section has turned into an anti dog one.

I could understand (maybe) if this was in AIBU, but it's irritating when non dog owners seek these out just to derail and repeat arguments.

I don't have a cat so I don't read/post in the litter tray section or whatever it's called.

“If you can’t guarantee recall then you need to use a lead.”

Yes... but...

Recall is different from different things, so I wouldn’t let a dog I can’t recall from a cat off lead anywhere I’d expect there to be a possibility of cats, but I might some other place.

Any dog I’ve had in the last 20 years wouldn’t hurt a cat intentionally - they’ve been living with at least one cat. But that doesn’t mean I could necessarily recall one from a cat in an unexpected place, because they’ve never practised that, they’ve had lots of practise with dogs and people, but cats they only ever meet mine or pass them while they’re already on lead.

There isn’t a huge difference from a cats point of view between a dog wanting to hunt it or a dog going, yay friend!!!

Some dogs need to be off lead to be adequately exercised. So PPs can say dogs should never be off lead as much as they want, it's not going to happen.
Off lead does not equal out of control, but yes some dog owners do spoil it for us all by not being in control of their dogs.
I have a dog and a cat. I wouldn't walk my cat, he's allowed out to roam though.

its never going to be law to keep dogs on lead whilst walking in countryside, so im not sure why people keep saying it.
Its neither necessary nor in best interests of most dogs who often need a decent run.
Most dogs would never catch anything even if they chased it, but a domestic cat in an unfamiliar environment, tetherered to a bloody human, is going to be terrified and in danger