People walking cats and rabbits on leads in parks

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

Utter fools. Do they not like their pets?

I've come across this at least 4 times now - people (all different!) walking cats and, in one case, a rabbit, on a lead.

In all cases, these are parks where dogs are allowed off lead and the vast majority are off lead. Including everything from ex-racing greyhounds to terriers.

I spoke to rabbit woman and pointed out the dangers. She said she'd just pick the rabbit up - while seemingly failing to account for the fact greyhounds can travel at 40mph and jump higher than she could possibly lift the rabbit.

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly. They then decided to stop sitting down in the park and instead FOLLOW US through the park.

Presumably when it goes wrong they'll be whining that the dog was out of control - but presumably they'd also be whining if they wandered out blindfolded onto a 70mph road and got run over. It's asking for trouble.

I'm not convinced cats or rabbits enjoy being walked - and surely the much safer / more pragmatic option would be to walk them somewhere where dogs aren't allowed to be off lead?

Let's pray this doesn't catch on as a trend

@Veterinari Honestly, I think ferrets make terrible pets for the majority as their needs are frequently misunderstood. There's a man I used to see walking his ferrets when I had mine and he always used to boast about how his ferrets could "take a dog". But then he was not someone I would say was a responsible ferret owner. They're not prey animals, and have been bred specifically for hunting, but putting your ferret in a position where it might have to try and "take a dog" is nonsensical. My ferrets used to sleep with my whippet during out of cage time but I'd never leave them unsupervised and never let them near strange dogs.

I suppose, whilst recognising someone's legal right to walk their cat and/or small furry in a park, I don't understand why you would take that risk if you loved your pet. There might be places safe for those animals, but I don't think a busy park with dogs and children is it.

Apologies all for seemingly restarting this contentious thread!

@bunniesanddaisies

That is ridiculous.

Someone walks up to me and says ‘are you aware of the dangers walking home alone?’ And you think they don’t mean ‘you should not be walking home alone’?

And no rabbits don’t tend to hang out in busy parks but are you denying that parks are filled with ducks (at this time of year) ducklings, birds, squirrels? Is it OK for them to be attacked? No. So dogs likely to do so should be on leads.

Strange inference considering I clearly said I'd agree that and dog likely to savage wildlife in public should be on a lead.

And added or savage wildlife at all really

Which part of that made you think I'm supporting dogs attacking wildlife.

Honestly this thread is like the twilight zone.

Or a test for people struggling with comprehension

@GoddessKali

You warned them your dog wasn’t cat friendly - rather than putting your dog back on a lead, having it fully under control and ensuring nothing happened??

If so, you’re the type of person that gives dog owners a bad reputation!

All of this!

Your dog is your responsibility and you don't own exclusive rights to the park for your precious little fur baby to run amok.

FFS

[quote Brewdoggydog]@Veterinari Honestly, I think ferrets make terrible pets for the majority as their needs are frequently misunderstood. There's a man I used to see walking his ferrets when I had mine and he always used to boast about how his ferrets could "take a dog". But then he was not someone I would say was a responsible ferret owner. They're not prey animals, and have been bred specifically for hunting, but putting your ferret in a position where it might have to try and "take a dog" is nonsensical. My ferrets used to sleep with my whippet during out of cage time but I'd never leave them unsupervised and never let them near strange dogs.

I suppose, whilst recognising someone's legal right to walk their cat and/or small furry in a park, I don't understand why you would take that risk if you loved your pet. There might be places safe for those animals, but I don't think a busy park with dogs and children is it.

Apologies all for seemingly restarting this contentious thread![/quote]
Not at all @Brewdoggydog

It's nice to hear from a responsible pet owner considering the welfare of their pet rather than posters ignoring animal welfare to focus on their 'rights'

I don’t think for a second you are supporting dogs attacking wildlife but I do think you are focusing on the perceived wrongs of the people walking the rabbit/cat. I am simply saying that dogs likely to attack other animals, whether they are someone’s beloved pet or not, should be on a lead.

My children are increasingly scared of dogs. I wish they would all be kept on leads in parks.
The amount of times my kids have come off their bikes (when they were learning) because a dog ran up to them or made them jump... and owners just looking but not doing anything. It's so selfish.

@FrangipaniBlue did you decide to ignore the post where the OP said I put my dog on a lead and walked away, in favour of putting the boot in for something she didn't do?

[quote Veterinari]**@FrangipaniBlue* did you decide to ignore the post where the OP said I put my dog on a lead and walked away,* in favour of putting the boot in for something she didn't do? [/quote]
Yes, because she's still ranting about people doing something that is perfectly acceptable!

@bunniesanddaisies

I don’t think for a second you are supporting dogs attacking wildlife but I do think you are focusing on the perceived wrongs of the people walking the rabbit/cat. I am simply saying that dogs likely to attack other animals, whether they are someone’s beloved pet or not, should be on a lead.

Literally no one has suggested otherwise And it is exactly what the OP did.

That doesn't negate from the fact that the cat owner was irresponsible in their selection of walking location

@FrangipaniBlue in what way is walking your cat in a location specifically recommended against by welfare organisations 'acceotable'?

The op has claimed that the vast majority of dogs are off lead including greyhounds. At no point has she indicated this is perhaps not a good idea.

@bunniesanddaisies

The op has claimed that the vast majority of dogs are off lead including greyhounds. At no point has she indicated this is perhaps not a good idea.

Well the greyhounds are likely to be chased by her dog in a public park so I'm not sure she's responsible for policing them as they don't impact her

I think these threads only serve to paint a lot of dog owners in a bad light. I have had dogs, I would not dream of assuming the park was mine and my area alone to walk my dog. If I saw others walking a cat, bunny, ferret or rhino, I wouldn’t presume to comment on it because it’s none of my business and I don’t know the circumstances behind why they feel the need to do it. I say that as a person who has worked closely with animal charities. I would keep my dog on a lead if I 100% wasn’t sure how my dog would react meeting unexpected animals. However, I was always painfully careful not to be that dog owner that allowed their dog to run up to anything, including other people and children and as parks are often full of other animals (squirrels and yes cats, on and off leads and occasionally bunnies) I would make sure my animal did not have the opportunity to greet anything unsolicited. This should be common dog owner etiquette.

Now I promise I am not being an arse vet but I honestly, genuinely, sincerely don’t understand that post! Early start! Try again?

@bunniesanddaisies

Now I promise I am not being an arse vet but I honestly, genuinely, sincerely don’t understand that post! Early start! Try again?

It's ok - there was a typo

Well the greyhounds are not likely to be chased or injured by her dog in a public park so I'm not sure she's responsible for policing them as they don't impact her

The point is the cat concerned her for the reasons she has clearly listed in this thread. Those concerns don't apply to greyhounds - so why should she be responsible for addressing them.

That doesn't negate the welfare issues for walking small animals in unsuitable environments though

But that leaves the question, where is a suitable environment? That would be an environment free of entitled arsehole dog owners doing the wrong thing? Where exactly is this suitable environment then?

In the example of my child walking the ferrets, where was the suitable environment suited to welfare if a small animal?
I completely agree it’s NOT in an off-leash dog area as that’s insane. But it’s not in an on-leash area either because dog owners believe the rule doesn’t apply to their particular dog or they have poor on-leash control and think that’s okay. It’s also not in an area where dogs are completely prohibited because again again, dog owners don’t believe that rule applies to their particular dog either and let them run riot off-leash. So, Veterinari where are the ‘suitable environments’ conducive to safety and welfare of small animals suited to be walked. You keep referencing welfare guidelines so I’m guessing the answers are in there, please communicate this so we all know where/what these areas would be as the welfare guidelines would cover the interests of ALL animals.

I’ve got you now!

I was really meaning greyhounds being known for having a high prey drive. I mean, if they are likely to attack and kill a rabbit on a leash then ducks, squirrels and so on are probably all fair game too.

I think we are all saying the same thing tbh. I don’t personally mind - - quite like it when - - friendly dogs wander to me for a sniff but I do know not everyone does. But a dog likely to cause harm to another living creature, whether it ‘should’ be there or not, should be on a lead IMO.

@HoppingPavlova

That doesn't negate the welfare issues for walking small animals in unsuitable environments though

But that leaves the question, where is a suitable environment? That would be an environment free of entitled arsehole dog owners doing the wrong thing? Where exactly is this suitable environment then?

In the example of my child walking the ferrets, where was the suitable environment suited to welfare if a small animal?
I completely agree it’s NOT in an off-leash dog area as that’s insane. But it’s not in an on-leash area either because dog owners believe the rule doesn’t apply to their particular dog or they have poor on-leash control and think that’s okay. It’s also not in an area where dogs are completely prohibited because again again, dog owners don’t believe that rule applies to their particular dog either and let them run riot off-leash. So, Veterinari where are the ‘suitable environments’ conducive to safety and welfare of small animals suited to be walked. You keep referencing welfare guidelines so I’m guessing the answers are in there, please communicate this so we all know where/what these areas would be as the welfare guidelines would cover the interests of ALL animals.

I posted guidelines earlier in the thread and also suggested that cemeteries are a useful spot as dogs aren't allowed. Some parks also have specific no-dog zones for picnickers etc.

This thread is a bit frustrating as I assume it's popping up in active so folk are just posting at the end in order to put the boot into the OP/complain about dogs in general without actually reading it. So the same points keep being raised. It's like Groundhog Day.

RSPCA guidance:

Although RSPCA policy is that a leash and harness may be used to walk cats outside the owner’s property under direct supervision and despite some owners successfully training their cat to walk on a lead, in general the RSPCA does not recommend it. This is because walking outdoors exposes cats to unfamiliar scents they may find threatening, and to potentially frightening experiences, including dogs, strange people, loud noises and cars. When alarmed, cats typically attempt to hide somewhere or to escape by climbing whatever is available, such as a tree or even up onto their owner. Most cats like to be in control – therefore, new environments can cause stress and agitation. Any cat who is easily stressed is best provided with other opportunities for outdoor exercise and enrichment, such as an escape-proof enclosure.
If you do decide to walk your cat on a lead, it is crucial that you attach this to a harness rather than a collar. Cats can easily slip out of collars or may choke if they escape and become entangled. Also, a proper cat harness rather than a dog harness should be used as these are more comfortable and secure. Ideally, training to walk on a lead and harness should start as a kitten. A good approach is to begin indoors and use treats and praise to slowly introduce the sensation of being restrained. Outdoor excursions should be limited to the safety of a back yard. Public parks are unsuitable for cats.
Before being walked outdoors, cats must be up to date with routine vaccinations against infectious diseases and with cat-specific treatments to prevent parasites such as fleas, ticks and worms. They must also be identified by a microchip, in case of escape.
Unlike dogs, cats do not have the same desire to socialise with others but they do enjoy smelling and exploring their surroundings. Also, cats do not behave the same as dogs on a lead. Rather than responding to cues such as sit or heel, you will tend to follow your cat’s lead as they wander around. Walks should be kept brief. Rather than using a harness and lead to provide access to the outdoors, the RSPCA recommends providing your cat with a cat-proof enclosure or enclosed yard with cat-proof fencing. This allows your cat to enjoy the outdoors in a safe and secure setting, without the risks involved with walking your cat on a lead.

@Poorlykitten

I think these threads only serve to paint a lot of dog owners in a bad light. I have had dogs, I would not dream of assuming the park was mine and my area alone to walk my dog. If I saw others walking a cat, bunny, ferret or rhino, I wouldn’t presume to comment on it because it’s none of my business and I don’t know the circumstances behind why they feel the need to do it. I say that as a person who has worked closely with animal charities. I would keep my dog on a lead if I 100% wasn’t sure how my dog would react meeting unexpected animals. However, I was always painfully careful not to be that dog owner that allowed their dog to run up to anything, including other people and children and as parks are often full of other animals (squirrels and yes cats, on and off leads and occasionally bunnies) I would make sure my animal did not have the opportunity to greet anything unsolicited. This should be common dog owner etiquette.

I agree. Also, I think regardless of your opinion on walking cats/rabbits/ferrets (I personally think it’s cruel and not appropriate in a park) even if you see someone doing it it is incredibly rude to approach them and share your opinion. Even if you think you are just “educating the owner of the risks” this is intrusive and patronising. It’s up to the animal’s owner to assess the risks and decide where to take their animal, and many owners make decisions others disapprove of. Going to share your opinion with the cat/ferret/rabbit owner does absolutely nothing to safeguard animal welfare as the chance of them changing their mind because a busybody in a park told them off is minuscule. So it’s just poor manners. Personally, I think that anyone that lets their dog off a lead with less than perfect recall is endangering animal welfare and putting their pet and other people’s pets in potentially dangerous situations. But I don’t go around accosting owners and telling them they are endangering their pets. Because I have manners (and I know they wouldn’t listen anyway). So I think the OP was unreasonable to interrupt a strangers day and try to tell them how to look after their pet. If you see someone doing something that you think is cruel report it to the relevant authorities, you don’t have the right to police others behaviour.

Not to derail the thread but I honestly don’t think the RSPCA can be held up as any bastion of exemplary advice. They really haven’t been the of best animal charities and are continually criticised for their f*ck ups.

@Iwouldbecomplex

If your dog is not 100% safe to be off lead in all circumstances (including when it is presented with an animal it would consider prey) and does not have prefect recall then it should not be off lead at all. It is an annoyance and sometimes a danger to others, not just those who might be walking cats and rabbits. You do not have an entitlement over other people in the park because you own a dog. Stop being so selfish.

No dog is 100% safe off lead. Rabbits, in particular, can disrupt the most obedient of dogs. They are not robots. And ideally, for mental health, they should have spaces to be walked off lead. Once again, they are not robots.

I posted guidelines earlier in the thread and also suggested that cemeteries are a useful spot as dogs aren't allowed. Some parks also have specific no-dog zones for picnickers etc.

But you are not addressing the fact that neither of these places are, in fact, dog free and generally have dogs off-leash because, even though it’s prohibited, many dog owners don’t believe it applies to their particular dog. Unless there is a Ranger standing there full time 99% of the time there are off-leash dogs in places where they are prohibited. So, where does that leave? You are not addressing this and I can’t see where those Guidelines address it. Where does this leave? Sure, maybe at midnight arsehole dog owners will be in bed but is that really reasonable for others to take that time slot? Understand you are frustrated. So am I as you are not providing any solutions and anything you cut and paste doesn’t seem to either.

Rabbits are not fair game just because they are rabbits.

@SelkieQualia I agree that dogs are not robots and you can’t 100% guarantee an animal will come every time you call it. However there are dogs (I’ve owned them and know others who do) who’s dogs can be called away from prey animals, people, food, dogs and recalled reliably all their lives. I think that these are the only dogs who should be off lead. To suggest that the most obedient dogs ignore recall around rabbits is naive-what about working dogs/guide dogs. I think what you mean is that there are many disobedient dogs around so it’s seen as normal for owners to lose control of off lead dogs when it shouldn’t be as it’s dangerous and antisocial and not fair on wildlife. If you know you can’t control your dog around animals, it shouldn’t be off lead outside of a secure dog exercise field and definitely not in a public park where it could scare people by killing an animal in public. It’s up to the owner to meet the animal’s mental health needs by finding a suitable, secure private place to exercise dogs off lead. Or alternatively choose a low prey drive breed and train it to be reliable off lead around all animals.

@HoppingPavlova

I posted guidelines earlier in the thread and also suggested that cemeteries are a useful spot as dogs aren't allowed. Some parks also have specific no-dog zones for picnickers etc.

But you are not addressing the fact that neither of these places are, in fact, dog free and generally have dogs off-leash because, even though it’s prohibited, many dog owners don’t believe it applies to their particular dog. Unless there is a Ranger standing there full time 99% of the time there are off-leash dogs in places where they are prohibited. So, where does that leave? You are not addressing this and I can’t see where those Guidelines address it. Where does this leave? Sure, maybe at midnight arsehole dog owners will be in bed but is that really reasonable for others to take that time slot? Understand you are frustrated. So am I as you are not providing any solutions and anything you cut and paste doesn’t seem to either.

Sorry I don't know which places you are referring to or why I am personally responsible for finding locations for folk to walk their cats?

Every environment is going to be different so it's up to individual pet owners to find a suitable safe and appropriate location for exercising their pets.