People walking cats and rabbits on leads in parks

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

Utter fools. Do they not like their pets?

I've come across this at least 4 times now - people (all different!) walking cats and, in one case, a rabbit, on a lead.

In all cases, these are parks where dogs are allowed off lead and the vast majority are off lead. Including everything from ex-racing greyhounds to terriers.

I spoke to rabbit woman and pointed out the dangers. She said she'd just pick the rabbit up - while seemingly failing to account for the fact greyhounds can travel at 40mph and jump higher than she could possibly lift the rabbit.

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly. They then decided to stop sitting down in the park and instead FOLLOW US through the park.

Presumably when it goes wrong they'll be whining that the dog was out of control - but presumably they'd also be whining if they wandered out blindfolded onto a 70mph road and got run over. It's asking for trouble.

I'm not convinced cats or rabbits enjoy being walked - and surely the much safer / more pragmatic option would be to walk them somewhere where dogs aren't allowed to be off lead?

Let's pray this doesn't catch on as a trend

In terms of a prey drive what’s the difference between a rabbit, a cat, a small dog and a baby? They’re all a similar size

I completely agree that a dog who is known to be a threat to prey animals should certainly be muzzled in public. The problem is that if you do take your rabbit/cat out on a lead then you are relying on dog owners doing that and let’s be honest, more than a few can’t even keep their pet from jumping all over small children let alone anything else. All it takes is for one owner not to think or care and it’s game over for your small furry. Not an acceptable risk in my opinion and one of the reasons why when my kids were small I would only let them wander in dog free areas. You just never know.

@m0therofdragons

It’s a new trend - RSPCA are very clear it’s cruel to put a cat on a lead.

The RSPCA don't always get it right unless the cameras are rolling

It depends on the cat, the training and socialisation. It is not something we do - cats and other animals here as well as hounds - but I have seen it used very positively with cats.

@BungleandGeorge

In terms of a prey drive what’s the difference between a rabbit, a cat, a small dog and a baby? They’re all a similar size

Oh, here we go.

Dogs know the difference between a baby and a rabbit.

@BungleandGeorge that is a clear attempt at derailing this thread and not what OP was discussing.

Dogs do know the difference and it's only the few, known breeds that can be an issue.

RSPCA are very clear it’s cruel to put a cat on a lead.

They don't say that at all. The RSPCA's stance is that it is not best practice and shouldn't be done under normal circumstances, but even they recognise that some individual circumstances have to be approached with a different mindset.

RSPCA morally isn't the best authority though, imo.

Put your bloody dog on a lead around people at ALL TIMES. No dogs should even be off lead where there are people esp children around ever

@Quit4me

Put your bloody dog on a lead around people at ALL TIMES. No dogs should even be off lead where there are people esp children around ever

The law doesn't back you up there. Unless you are in a place that actually says dogs need to be on a lead.

@BungleandGeorge

In terms of a prey drive what’s the difference between a rabbit, a cat, a small dog and a baby? They’re all a similar size

Can you tell the difference?

@BungleandGeorge

In terms of a prey drive what’s the difference between a rabbit, a cat, a small dog and a baby? They’re all a similar size

well, dogs aren't stupid. My dog chases birds and squirrels. He doesn't chase cats, or small foxes, or babies/toddlers. In fact with babies toddlers, he would lie down and be very quiet/let them manhandle him, while looking for the first opportunity to leave. He doesn't chase small dogs, and recognises dogs as being dogs like him. He even doesn't chase our chickens at home in the same way that he chases pigeons/crows. Nevertheless I would not trust him round rabbits, cats or birds. I wouldn't worry about him around small dogs or young children (but obviously closely supervised as children should always be with dogs.)

Dogs, as I said are not stupid. Mine is a springer spaniel and he particularly goes for birds as that is the inbred instinct. we are always very careful when out walking near farms (free range chickens) or certain woods (pheasants)

@MiddlesexGirl

A greyhound that is likely to kill its prey should be muzzled. There are several locally that are always muzzled when out. Common sense surely?

But all dogs have the ability to kill a prey animal.

Should they all be muzzled just in case they happen to come across someone daft enough to walk a rabbit on a lead?

I think it’s cruel to walk cats and rabbits, they clearly don’t enjoy it much. Far better to make a large pen in your garden if you want indoor pets.

@BurbageBrook

I think it’s cruel to walk cats and rabbits, they clearly don’t enjoy it much. Far better to make a large pen in your garden if you want indoor pets.

Cats aren't 'indoor' pets. I dont keash my cat but he comes for a walk with me and my dog at least twice a week. Its his own choice. If he's about, he comes. I dont make him or even encourage him.

[quote Stellaris22]@BungleandGeorge that is a clear attempt at derailing this thread and not what OP was discussing.

Dogs do know the difference and it's only the few, known breeds that can be an issue.[/quote]
No it’s not. What is the difference between a cat and a small dog from a distance? You could say that dogs have been bred specifically to catch rabbits but the same isn’t true for cats in general, so surely the ‘prey instinct’ is towards any small fluffy?
If your dog is in a public recreational park and won’t return to you on demand it should be on a lead. When dogs worry horses is that also ok because it’s the fault of the rider?

Although we have a dog, I am really a cat person.
I think cats on leads are cruel, and I think rabbits on leads are a disaster.

I used to have a rabbit who was very tame, and free ranged in our garden. To put him on a lead and take him to a new place would have been unbleievably stressful for him, and a really really cruel thing to do.

If you walk your rabbit out and about on a lead, in an area with dogs, cats and strange people, you are subjecting that rabbit to high, high stress levels. Doesn't matter if the dogs are on lead or not, it is the smell of a strange dog close to them.

I honestly think people who walk rabbits on leads are committing animal cruelty, and should be banned from keeping rabbits.

Cats aren't quite as bad, as you can train cats to do many things, but still, it is not a lovely walk in the park that the owners seem to think it is.

I know a couple of adults and several children, some of whom have ASD, who are scared of all dogs and worry that any off lead dog will attack them. It’s quite a common fear/phobia I believe. If they are approached by any dog, they (maybe irrationally) worry that the dog will injure them. So technically the owners of these dogs are breaking the law.

I'm really not sure the Dangerous Dogs Act was intended to cover such a scenario. It was a fairly rushed, kneejerk bit of legislation, rushed through after some high profile incidents, and as a result was poorly drafted.

I suspect it was intended to cover a scenario where the dog runs at them snarling, but stops short of actually sinking its teeth in, or bites but not so hard as to leave a mark, making it hard to prosecute otherwise.

I think a better drafted bit of legislation would have talked about reasonable fear the dog will attack - so much of English law is based on what a reasonable person would do in that scenario.

That's not to say anyone is unreasonable to have autism or be affected by it - just that you could never prosecute someone for a scenario where a well behaved dog happens to wander past someone with a dog phobia.

I think anyone walking an animal like a rabbit on a lead is hugely irresponsible and needs to think about their animals needs and stop blaming dog owners for their poor judgement.

My dog is fine with my guinea pigs, but that doesn't mean I'd put them in a situation where they'd be together. When they have outside time in the run, I keep my dog strictly inside. Putting animals in a stressful situation is not ok.

Well if I was walking a rabbit(not that I would) and an off lead dog came running towards me and my pet I would be very worried it would injure me as I would instinctively pick up my pet or try to get the dog off which would put me at risk of being bitten. So I struggle to see how that situation would be legal.

Because it's based on a lot of assumption and an absence of case law.

What is the difference between a cat and a small dog from a distance?

1. dogs rely on smell more than sight and can smell another animal from hundreds of feet away. Cats and dogs do not smell the same.
2. if you look at cat moving and a dog moving for 5 seconds you can see that they move very differently. Dogs, can see the same. A cat running across the road moves differently to a dog running across the road.

@AvocadosBeforeMortgages

I know a couple of adults and several children, some of whom have ASD, who are scared of all dogs and worry that any off lead dog will attack them. It’s quite a common fear/phobia I believe. If they are approached by any dog, they (maybe irrationally) worry that the dog will injure them. So technically the owners of these dogs are breaking the law.

I'm really not sure the Dangerous Dogs Act was intended to cover such a scenario. It was a fairly rushed, kneejerk bit of legislation, rushed through after some high profile incidents, and as a result was poorly drafted.

I suspect it was intended to cover a scenario where the dog runs at them snarling, but stops short of actually sinking its teeth in, or bites but not so hard as to leave a mark, making it hard to prosecute otherwise.

I think a better drafted bit of legislation would have talked about reasonable fear the dog will attack - so much of English law is based on what a reasonable person would do in that scenario.

That's not to say anyone is unreasonable to have autism or be affected by it - just that you could never prosecute someone for a scenario where a well behaved dog happens to wander past someone with a dog phobia.

The wording is that

Under section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act an owner, or a person in charge of a dog, commits an offence if the dog causes reasonable apprehension to a person that they will be injured

So yes there is an element of reasonableness and generaliseability in there but it won't necessarily accommodate individual fears/phobias or provocation

We have on lead parks and off lead parks - if you want to walk a pet which is not a dog, just choose on lead parks! And do not walk your miniature horse because most park bylaws ban farm animals (if you do bring a bloody bucket!)

I do get what you are saying @AvocadosBeforeMortgages my dog is fine with cats and rabbits but has an issue with horses (goodness knows why)

I try to remember it is usually my opinion, not always fact. I try to stick to the discussion not diminish the person I disagree with. I try to avoid using - or ignoring - loaded negative words. I try to avoid putting down someone else's intellect and the need to seem intellectually superior. I try to remember that everyone has a contribution to make. I don't always succeed, Veterinari but it is important to try. I'm too long in the tooth to be labelled a 'snowflake', by the way, should anyone be tempted. It is my life and professional experience and personal beliefs that make me try, not any kind of sudden 'wokeness'.

Peace and love to all owned by dogs, cats and - of course - rabbits.

No it’s not. What is the difference between a cat and a small dog from a distance?

• Smell. Cats and dogs smell very different.
• Movement. Cats and dogs move very differently.
• General appearance. Dogs aren't daft. They know what other dogs look like, even if they're a different breed. Dogs don't look anything like cats.

@MrsMackesy

I try to remember it is usually my opinion, not always fact. I try to stick to the discussion not diminish the person I disagree with. I try to avoid using - or ignoring - loaded negative words. I try to avoid putting down someone else's intellect and the need to seem intellectually superior. I try to remember that everyone has a contribution to make. I don't always succeed, Veterinari but it is important to try. I'm too long in the tooth to be labelled a 'snowflake', by the way, should anyone be tempted. It is my life and professional experience and personal beliefs that make me try, not any kind of sudden 'wokeness'.

Peace and love to all owned by dogs, cats and - of course - rabbits.

Ah ok. So Just personal opinion and judgements about our characters based on a couple of internet posts. Doesn't sound terribly peace and love to me

but still, it is not a lovely walk in the park that the owners seem to think it is.

You're right, it's not. If anyone on here is thinking of walking their cat you really do need to be aware that it should be nothing like walking a dog. You go where your cat takes you, they lead the way and you go at their pace. If you do have to let them off lead for their safety they must be able to find their way home and they can only do that if they've learnt it the same way a free roaming cat does.