People walking cats and rabbits on leads in parks

[AvocadosBeforeMortgages]

Utter fools. Do they not like their pets?

I've come across this at least 4 times now - people (all different!) walking cats and, in one case, a rabbit, on a lead.

In all cases, these are parks where dogs are allowed off lead and the vast majority are off lead. Including everything from ex-racing greyhounds to terriers.

I spoke to rabbit woman and pointed out the dangers. She said she'd just pick the rabbit up - while seemingly failing to account for the fact greyhounds can travel at 40mph and jump higher than she could possibly lift the rabbit.

Yesterday I saw this on-lead cat before my own dog did (a small miracle - from a distance I thought it was a puppy), and warned them my dog wasn't cat friendly. They then decided to stop sitting down in the park and instead FOLLOW US through the park.

Presumably when it goes wrong they'll be whining that the dog was out of control - but presumably they'd also be whining if they wandered out blindfolded onto a 70mph road and got run over. It's asking for trouble.

I'm not convinced cats or rabbits enjoy being walked - and surely the much safer / more pragmatic option would be to walk them somewhere where dogs aren't allowed to be off lead?

Let's pray this doesn't catch on as a trend

@Stellaris22

Another thread in the doghouse section has turned into an anti dog one.

I could understand (maybe) if this was in AIBU, but it's irritating when non dog owners seek these out just to derail and repeat arguments.

I don't have a cat so I don't read/post in the litter tray section or whatever it's called.

I’m a dog owner. I’m not anti-dog and I use this forum because I love dogs. I am opposed to out of control dogs partly because I love dogs. Out of control dogs affect my reactive, on lead dog’s welfare by running up to him and scaring him, and their owners risk their dogs welfare by allowing them to pester my aggressive on lead dog when I’ve asked them to call their dog away. I am also opposed to out of control dogs attacking prey animals and approaching people that may not like dogs because, whilst I care about dogs, I also care about wildlife and can empathise with people who don’t like dogs. I think the issue of whether dogs are kept under control (on a lead in cases where dogs can’t be called away from people and animals) is relevant when the OP was about the risks of dogs attacking cats/rabbits. Whilst I think it’s stupid and cruel to walk a cat or rabbit in a park with dogs because it will be stressful whether dogs are on lead or not, it is still not acceptable for a dog to attack a cat or rabbit on a lead.

The bottom line is we don't get to dictate what others do.

I agree with this but surely it extends to cat and rabbit owners too. Is it ok for the op to tell the other owner that she thinks it’s inappropriate or does she just have to accept that everyone can use a public space so she’ll either have to use a lead or work on recalling a public park? Presumably any cat or rabbit would be at risk from this dog in a park even without a lead, they just may or may not be able to escape a bit easier

Stellaris22
It's always the way. Some people are so wrapped up in their dislike of dogs and think the world should operate accordingly, and the result is a refusal to consider that an issue is never as black and white as they claim.

On dog threads you'll regularly see dog owners challenging irresponsible ownership, promoting the importance of training, discussing long lines and leads and off lead exercise, the challenges of training, as well as posters who are all too aware that under appropriate control does not equal on a lead. There's a range of experiences with a range of dogs and dog dispositions, and the consensus is that dogs shouldn't be jumping all over people.

Then there's some of those who don't like dogs and will default to "waaaahhh but why should I be jumped at!!! All dogs should be on a lead at all times. Why do you put humans second to dogs? I can't believe you think I should have my walk ruined by feral out of control predators who will trash my picnic, shake mud all over me and jump on my head. If your dog comes anywhere near me they'll be sorry".

To take the thread back to cats and rabbits on leads in parks, they would not be at risk from our dogs who would not see these small pets as prey because they - the cats and rabbits - are on leads and being kept close to their people, not running free. This wouldn't change if our dogs were on lead or off.

We would avoid such a busy place though or if we couldn't then the dogs would be on leads. We know that our dogs would not hurt anyone, (except in defense of the family or themselves), but other people don't know that and our other concerns would be them being attacked by - usually smaller - off lead dogs or stolen.

If it’s an area where dogs are allowed off lead then yes it’s insane for people to have cats or rabbits there, but also for those who moan about dogs ruining their picnics or walks etc. It’s simple, Don’t walk in an off lead dog area if you don’t like dogs.
For example near us we walk our dogs on a lead on the road and in the sections of the park where we are requested to keep dogs on leads. In the off-lead area they are off lead! Dogs need this. Having said that, we are responsible dog owners and we didn’t do that until we knew that they were harmless, wouldn’t jump up at anyone and will always respond to their names and return to us. Some dog owners ARE irresponsible, but not all.
Even with well behaved dogs it’s amazing the number of people who make it their business to tell us off for walking our dogs in an off lead area. 🤷‍♀️ Some people expect everyone else to be just like them and make no allowances for pets or hobbies... I’m guessing these types also tell kids off for riding bikes in park spaces and get angry when young lovers are making out in the sunshine.

@Branleuse

its never going to be law to keep dogs on lead whilst walking in countryside, so im not sure why people keep saying it. Its neither necessary nor in best interests of most dogs who often need a decent run. Most dogs would never catch anything even if they chased it, but a domestic cat in an unfamiliar environment, tetherered to a bloody human, is going to be terrified and in danger

This isn’t about the countryside, this is about a busy park filled with many picnic goers which is a completely different environment to the countryside, and I think given that there are more people in parks it’s less appropriate to let dogs have a decent run when it’s busy unless they really don’t approach/bother other park users. I agree though, the law probably won’t change but I think a law stating dogs should be on lead in parks is more likely than one saying dogs must be on lead in the countryside. This is already the case in many countries/areas-that there are on lead and off lead areas of parks. This is a change I would welcome. I agree that dogs should be allowed to run around in the countryside. I think if you live somewhere where the only place you can exercise a dog is a busy park you should think carefully about which breed to get and make sure it’s one that is either ok with on lead exercise or is known to have good recall. I don’t really agree with people walking huskies and similar breeds known to have poor recall and need a lot of exercise in city parks-it seems unsafe for the dog and unfair on other park users.

@LittleTiger007

If it’s an area where dogs are allowed off lead then yes it’s insane for people to have cats or rabbits there, but also for those who moan about dogs ruining their picnics or walks etc. It’s simple, Don’t walk in an off lead dog area if you don’t like dogs. For example near us we walk our dogs on a lead on the road and in the sections of the park where we are requested to keep dogs on leads. In the off-lead area they are off lead! Dogs need this. Having said that, we are responsible dog owners and we didn’t do that until we knew that they were harmless, wouldn’t jump up at anyone and will always respond to their names and return to us. Some dog owners ARE irresponsible, but not all. Even with well behaved dogs it’s amazing the number of people who make it their business to tell us off for walking our dogs in an off lead area. 🤷‍♀️ Some people expect everyone else to be just like them and make no allowances for pets or hobbies... I’m guessing these types also tell kids off for riding bikes in park spaces and get angry when young lovers are making out in the sunshine.

I think the on lead/off lead areas would be a great system. There’s nothing like that where I live-there are just parks where there are always off lead dogs so if you want to go to the park you have to put up with other people’s dogs also being there. There are some footpaths/fields nearby that say on every gate “dogs must be on leads” but 90%of dogs are still off lead.

[quote Quit4me]**@Veterinari* I was replying to @LolaSmiles*
My original point was that no dogs should be off lead anyway, so it wouldn’t matter is someone was walking their cat, rabbit, mouse or toddler. No one would have to put up with a dog too close to them[/quote]
Your statement 'no dogs should be off lead anyway' is wrong. Again. Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it true.

If an area is advertised as an “off lead dog park” then I agree you can’t complain about off lead dogs and should just not walk in these areas. But I’ve not seen one of these locally- we just have “the park” which is for everyone so it’s hard to avoid off lead dogs if you want to access green space (unless you drive to the countryside but not everyone has a car).

@Stellaris22

Another thread in the doghouse section has turned into an anti dog one.

I could understand (maybe) if this was in AIBU, but it's irritating when non dog owners seek these out just to derail and repeat arguments.

I don't have a cat so I don't read/post in the litter tray section or whatever it's called.

Well, the thread isn't actually about dogs, is it?

I guess I’m blessed to live in the countryside. We do have clearly marked areas for offlead dog walks. If I lived in a city I wouldn’t have two dogs.

I’m not aware of any ‘on lead’, ‘off lead’ apart from areas where there are livestock. I don’t think public parks generally have this around here. I like dogs, I’ve owned dogs, I do think the etiquette in a public park is different to a countryside area.

I agree that dogs should be allowed to runaround in the countryside
Not at the moment, they shouldn't, and caution should be exercised at all times. At the moment they should be on leads, especially because of ground-nesting birds and lambs. At all times there are sheep, cows - who can and do injure or kill dogs and their owners - and calves, deer and their fawns and other wildlife and stock. Hares are in particular danger.

Living in the countryside I have witnessed first hand what can happen if irresponsible dog owners treat it as a free for all. Our dogs have been brought up alongside wildlife and stock on a daily basis - not just the occasional run at the weekend or bank holiday - and even we have to be careful.

I think if you live somewhere where the only place you can exercise a dog is a busy park you should think carefully about which breed to get and make sure it’s one that is either ok with on lead exercise or is known to have good recall.

I'll agree with your principle - and I'd never choose to have a husky or similar breed for the reasons you mention.

However, it's worth remembering that not everyone chooses their dog. I wasn't even planning to get a dog but he quite literally came with my flat (long story) and I had to make the best of things. I know others who have inherited dogs from relatives who have died / gone into a home. And then there's people whose circumstances simply change during the 12-16 years of dog ownership and they move from countryside to city or vice versa.

We're all just muddling along and trying to make the best of what life throws at us!

I don't have a cat so I don't read/post in the litter tray section
Some people, including me, have both canine and feline. Why shouldn't/wouldn't rabbit or cat owners post on a thread which is primarily about their pets being on leads in parks?

The attitude seems to be parks are for 'us as dog owners' and this topic and thread is for 'us as dog owners'? Seems a bit too excluding for me and I don't agree.

I think it is stupid for people to walk cats and rabbits where they know there will be dogs off leads of course
But the amount of dogs off leads fucks me off also
There's wildlife in these parks and no one seems to care if their dog catches a squirrel or anything else
There was a story about a sheep on here a few weeks ago and then there is that seal pup (dog was on a lead) owner couldn't control it and had to be put down
Owners need to be responsible or not have a dog in the first place!
The amount of dog shot left all over parks and some even in poo bags 🤷‍♀️ dogs jumping up on small kids and adults but it's OK because they won't hurt them!
Just keep them on a fucking lead

@MrsMackesy

I agree that dogs should be allowed to runaround in the countryside Not at the moment, they shouldn't, and caution should be exercised at all times. At the moment they should be on leads, especially because of ground-nesting birds and lambs. At all times there are sheep, cows - who can and do injure or kill dogs and their owners - and calves, deer and their fawns and other wildlife and stock. Hares are in particular danger.

Living in the countryside I have witnessed first hand what can happen if irresponsible dog owners treat it as a free for all. Our dogs have been brought up alongside wildlife and stock on a daily basis - not just the occasional run at the weekend or bank holiday - and even we have to be careful.

Oh I agree with this. By countryside I was thinking of empty open fields away from livestock. Even then I keep my dog on a long line in case a deer turns up unexpectedly as his recall isn’t 100%. I was just thinking that if someone insists that their dog needs an off lead run it’s better to do it in an empty field than a busy park, but of course you must control your dog around livestock and wildlife too. I’m sure there are people that think they have the right to test their dogs recall around pregnant sheep and lambs unfortunately.

Yes, let's talk about the elephant in the room or rather the dog sh*t in the countryside while we're at it. Yes, you should still clear it up, bag it up and take it with you until you can put it in a bin. Don't just leave it where it is harmful to stock and wildlife or where other humans can tread in it. Don't just cover it with some leaves or leave your bag thrown in some long grass, over a stone wall or hanging from a tree.

@WiganNorthWest At this time of year all dogs should be on short leads in the countryside to protect the young wildlife not just farmed livestock. It is the law in England, just a shame it is not enforced.

Dogs attack and kill rabbits.
They attack and presumably have been known to kill cats.
They attack and can kill deer and seal pups (recent news articles)
They attack and kill people - elderly people, middle aged people and babies.
Why are people seeking to make a distinction between rabbits/cats and other dogs/babies?

And as regards cat walking, clearly a free roaming cat is best but sometimes it's not safe and if the cat tolerates a lead then why not?

@MiddlesexGirl

Dogs attack and kill rabbits. They attack and presumably have been known to kill cats. They attack and can kill deer and seal pups (recent news articles) They attack and kill people - elderly people, middle aged people and babies. Why are people seeking to make a distinction between rabbits/cats and other dogs/babies?

And as regards cat walking, clearly a free roaming cat is best but sometimes it's not safe and if the cat tolerates a lead then why not?

For all of the very clear welfare reasons already stated on this thread.

“Why are people seeking to make a distinction between rabbits/cats and other dogs/babies?”

Because dogs do.

A dog that isn’t safe to be loose round one of those isn’t necessarily a dog that isn’t safe to be loose round the others.

A dog with practically no prey drive who’d never dream of chasing a cat or a rabbit can be unsafe round other dogs, because that’s a completely different issue.

Equally you get dogs with a huge prey drive who’d find cats and rabbits really hard to resist but are really social and well mannered with dogs and people (including babies)

You tailor where you walk for the dog you have with you, so if it’s not good with dogs you do your best to avoid them, if they’re not good with cats you do your best to avoid them, etc... but when there’s suddenly one of them somewhere you’re not expecting and it’s in fact pretty surprising they’re there, you’d get caught out.

There was no clear welfare reason not to walk my cat, he was comfortable in the harness and enjoyed walking with us.
He is a very vocal chatterbox you know when he isn't happy. He trotted along beside us, stopping to sniff things or accept strokes.
He was much easier to walk than my dog.

I can see his presence might be challenging for some dogs but that isn't a welfare issue that should have kept him inside.

The welfare issue was out of control dogs.

There was a very clear welfare reason to walk my cat and she was 100% happier once I started doing this.

And both cats used to come with me and my dog to the park. All off lead.