Dogs behaving badly

[Thermalpants]

Did anyone watch last night’s episode? The guy taking the Labrador’s food away was making me so mad. I honestly don’t know why anyone would think removing a dog’s food bowl when they’re eating would be a good idea. If someone repeatedly removed my dinner plate from under my nose, I’d be pretty pissed off too!

He is an idiot and a very poor trainer. I have no idea why TV companies keep insisiting on using such out of date trainers.

There is a petition to get the show off air.

Alternatively keep your eyes open for a new show by Chirag Patel an amazing intelligent, empathic highly skilled trainer.

Instead of removing food from the dog how about adding extra yummy food to the dogs bowl? The dog will then be extremely happy to see humans approaching his bowl, will not have any resource guarding issues and all happy. I guess calm makes boring tv.

Not that I have any opinions on the trainer but I did watch the episode and it was the owner removing the food bowl from the dog, not the trainer from the bits I did watch.

The trainer told him to leave the dog alone and put treats into the bowl

It makes me really angry that trainers like Graeme Hall are still given air time. A lot of his methods are very out-dated and are in fact incredibly dangerous.

I did watch last night's episode and I think poor Luna was in an impossible position - she couldn't have anything to eat without being stood over, told off or pestered!

The poor little girl was terrified and I'm hardly surprised - they basically taught the dog to be food aggressive and now try and punish her for it

His show should be taken off air.

Instead of removing food from the dog how about adding extra yummy food to the dogs bowl? The dog will then be extremely happy to see humans approaching his bowl, will not have any resource guarding issues and all happy.

TBF this is literally how Graeme also approached the issue. It was the owners pushing the dog further and further to guarding behaviour. I caught this bit of the program and was watching with my heart in my mouth, assuming the worst. Actually, the approach advised was fairly sensible - though the stages sped up far quicker than anyone would really advise in real life.

I'm not saying I think he's good - but he's not always as bad as I fear he's going to be.

Agree that Chiraq is truly brilliant.

I was worried about that labrador. I can see how the owners had gone wrong: advice is often to let the dog know who is boss by making them eat after you, or standing in their bed etc etc. It seemed odd behaviour for a labrador; gundogs are nearly always very amenable.

Loved the husky couple. They so obviously adored that dog.

@IrmaFayLear

I was worried about that labrador. I can see how the owners had gone wrong: advice is often to let the dog know who is boss by making them eat after you, or standing in their bed etc etc. It seemed odd behaviour for a labrador; gundogs are nearly always very amenable.

Loved the husky couple. They so obviously adored that dog.

That's definitely not current advice and hasn't been advice for a good 5-10 years now, if not longer. I really hope there aren't still people out there who encourage that kind of awful training method.

Advice now is to let your dog eat in peace. So you place the food down and leave the room/area so they can eat without feeling threatened. Dogs should be able to eat on their own time - no children or other animals around to make them feel like they need to guard or protect their food.

I don't think Irma meant that it was good advice. Just that you still see it given in multiple places (and you do).

I was talking to a Rottie owner recently and a trainer who advertised as using modern, gentle techniques STILL tried to insist on just taking a toy off the dog when already made aware he had started to guard toys and food. She had said they just needed to be confident and moved to take it. She had her hand bitten as a result.

There is still a tonne of very bad advice out there and it remains very hard for owners to sort the good from the bad.

Thanks, @SirSniffsAlot ! That was exactly what I meant. Training a dog is in some ways obvious, and in others not, as it's a lot of reverse psychology, eg praising a dog when he (eventually) returns after running off, instead of being cross and exasperated.

I must admit that the Graeme bloke manages to solve dog problems very quickly. Perhaps they don't show all the difficult customers!

This is totally off topic but when I was a young child our dog escaped and ran across the road. When he eventually responded to my recall I shouted at him and a man in a car shouted at me - "don't do that love, or he won't ever come back again; praise him for coming back, don't worry that he ran away".

That would have been in the 1980s and I often think of him and wonder how he was so far ahead of everyone else I could see around me, in terms of understanding dog behaviour. I wish I could go back in time and talk to him.

(I'm not saying he was some kind of revolutonary genius - I am sure there were others out there with a similar approach in the 80s; just that I never saw anyone else do so)

My dog's recall was brilliant except for when we went to a particular (dog) busy park and he remembered he was a dog.

I know he could hear me darn well but I could see him giving me a quick look before bounding off again. I had to try to wait until no one was within earshot and use his special pet name said in a baby voice which was a bit embarrassing. Always worked though - especially if I added that I was off home for toast ...

@IrmaFayLear

Thanks, *@SirSniffsAlot* ! That was exactly what I meant. Training a dog is in some ways obvious, and in others not, as it's a lot of reverse psychology, eg praising a dog when he (eventually) returns after running off, instead of being cross and exasperated.

I must admit that the Graeme bloke manages to solve dog problems very quickly. Perhaps they don't show all the difficult customers!

I wasn't suggesting you personally were recommending those methods btw! Just that they're definitely not up to date advice.

I don't think he does solve things that quickly, to be honest. There was a dog last week where he failed completely and the behaviour hadn't improved at all after he left.

I also notice a lot of the cases he takes on are very mild in terms of behavioural issues. Normally it's things like poor recall, a fear of something mundane like stairs or hard floors, poor doggy manners and leash reactivity. None of those things are particularly difficult to solve if you know what you're doing and you're consistent.

I strongly suspect he turns down a lot of cases that aren't "quick fixes" as it would ruin his reputation if he kept failing to solve problems in about a day

I think Graeme Hall is brilliant
It was the owner taking food off the dog not Graeme

@SirSniffsAlot

This is totally off topic but when I was a young child our dog escaped and ran across the road. When he eventually responded to my recall I shouted at him and a man in a car shouted at me - "don't do that love, or he won't ever come back again; praise him for coming back, don't worry that he ran away".

That would have been in the 1980s and I often think of him and wonder how he was so far ahead of everyone else I could see around me, in terms of understanding dog behaviour. I wish I could go back in time and talk to him.

(I'm not saying he was some kind of revolutonary genius - I am sure there were others out there with a similar approach in the 80s; just that I never saw anyone else do so)

That's a really sweet memory! I love how much of a good impression that man left on you

I've been watching all the Dogs Behaving Very Badly this series and I, too, think Graeme Hall is a very sensible man who is a good trainer. He is really retraining the owners, not the dogs and his dog psychology seems spot on. He certainly gets good results without any unkindness to the dogs - indeed, he uses positive reinforcement methods.

@mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork

I've been watching all the Dogs Behaving Very Badly this series and I, too, think Graeme Hall is a very sensible man who is a good trainer. He is really retraining the owners, not the dogs and his dog psychology seems spot on. He certainly gets good results without any unkindness to the dogs - indeed, he uses positive reinforcement methods.

He doesn't.

A lot of his techniques involve getting up in the dogs' face and shouting at them, yanking their necks by pulling them on the lead and telling them off for growling.

None of that is positive reinforcement and is potentially a very dangerous way to approach an aggressive or fearful dog.

His techniques may get results but he certainly doesn't use positive reinforcement all the time, or even most of the time.

I think he's brilliant. So calm.

A lot of his techniques involve getting up in the dogs' face and shouting at them, yanking their necks by pulling them on the lead and telling them off for growling

What episodes has that happened on? We have only watched the series that is airing now and nothing like that has happened on the episodes we have watched.

I think I've seen every episode, and I've never seen him behave in the way described upthread.

@SimonJT

A lot of his techniques involve getting up in the dogs' face and shouting at them, yanking their necks by pulling them on the lead and telling them off for growling

What episodes has that happened on? We have only watched the series that is airing now and nothing like that has happened on the episodes we have watched.

Earlier episodes, mainly season 1 which is nowhere to be found online, funnily enough.

I've seen him yanking dogs by their neck, shouting "no" in their faces and telling dogs off for growling at other dogs. The telling off for growling happened a few episodes ago with two dogs (one a spaniel, I forget the other) who didn't get on.

Telling off doesn't have to be shouting - when he interrupts the growl with an "ah ah - no" that's stopping the dog from exhibiting a sign of discomfort. If you stop a dog growling, they learn it doesn't work and often jump straight to a snap or bite instead.

Nothing wrong any of his methods

And of course a dog should be told off for growling

@Beaniecats

And of course a dog should be told off for growling

Presumably you are not a qualified dog trainer . Growling is a dogs warning , no different to you shouting stop at a child that is just about to run in front of a car .

@Beaniecats

And of course a dog should be told off for growling

Totally incorrect. Please don't peddle outdated advice, it's incredibly irresponsible.

A growl is a warning. If you a tell a dog off for growling, they won't do it in future and will go straight to a snap or a bite.

Growling is a dog's way of saying "I'm uncomfortable with this". It's an excellent means of communication.

Beginning to see why people have badly behaved dogs tbh
Not firm enough, too soft

@sunflowersandbuttercups
Not sure if this is the same episode but a week or two ago there were two dogs that did not get on, owned by two sisters. The little one kept attacking and terrorising the bigger (labrador) one. He did advocate telling off the little one when it started growling at the other one and then, when it stopped, praising it. In fact, the owner was the one who did all the shouting and he managed to get her to stop this and calm down a lot. This paid off in that they were able to get the dogs to be quite close to each other in the same room and, eventually outdoors off lead as well. By the end of quite a lot of careful training, the dogs were good friends. If he hadn't got the offending dog to stop the growling then there would have been no way of de-escalating the violent attacks (and he did it without shouting or yanking its neck). In past episodes he has sometimes given the lead a brief tug to distract the problem dog from its enemy (dog across the road or whatever) and get its attention - once he has its attention, it gets praise. I can't see anything wrong with that myself - the dog is not hurt and it ends up with a treat. I also can't see what other course of action one could take to change the undesirable situation there.