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The doghouse

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Dogs behaving badly

65 replies

Thermalpants · 17/02/2021 13:04

Did anyone watch last night’s episode? The guy taking the Labrador’s food away was making me so mad. I honestly don’t know why anyone would think removing a dog’s food bowl when they’re eating would be a good idea. If someone repeatedly removed my dinner plate from under my nose, I’d be pretty pissed off too!

OP posts:
sunflowersandbuttercups · 17/02/2021 16:59

[quote mrsjoyfulprizeforraffiawork]**@sunflowersandbuttercups
Not sure if this is the same episode but a week or two ago there were two dogs that did not get on, owned by two sisters. The little one kept attacking and terrorising the bigger (labrador) one. He did advocate telling off the little one when it started growling at the other one and then, when it stopped, praising it. In fact, the owner was the one who did all the shouting and he managed to get her to stop this and calm down a lot. This paid off in that they were able to get the dogs to be quite close to each other in the same room and, eventually outdoors off lead as well. By the end of quite a lot of careful training, the dogs were good friends. If he hadn't got the offending dog to stop the growling then there would have been no way of de-escalating the violent attacks (and he did it without shouting or yanking its neck). In past episodes he has sometimes given the lead a brief tug to distract the problem dog from its enemy (dog across the road or whatever) and get its attention - once he has its attention, it gets praise. I can't see anything wrong with that myself - the dog is not hurt and it ends up with a treat. I also can't see what other course of action one could take to change the undesirable situation there.[/quote]
No, it wasn't that episode. It was a different one.

TakingTheLowRoad · 17/02/2021 17:30

Did no one else get the rage from watching the previous owners with the Sprocker. No stimulation given to to the dog. Then, when he resorted to destroying their belongings, they locked him in a bare crate. It was a total revelation to them when they were introduced to the concept of toys for the dog that stimulated his brain. I was shouting at the telly during that episode.

SimonJT · 17/02/2021 17:58

@sunflowersandbuttercups A quick look shows that all seasons are currently available to stream on Sky and My5, including all of season 1.

BigWolfLittleWolf · 17/02/2021 17:58

The telling off for growling happened a few episodes ago with two dogs (one a spaniel, I forget the other) who didn't get on
This episode made my blood run cold.
He didn’t seem to notice the hard eyes or stiffness that came before the visible aggression.
That bit when the two dogs were in the room together and he commented they were calm.
We must have been watching totally different dogs because while they weren’t growling, they certainly were not calm.

Beaniecats · 17/02/2021 18:00

@TakingTheLowRoad

Did no one else get the rage from watching the previous owners with the Sprocker. No stimulation given to to the dog. Then, when he resorted to destroying their belongings, they locked him in a bare crate. It was a total revelation to them when they were introduced to the concept of toys for the dog that stimulated his brain. I was shouting at the telly during that episode.
I know It was lovely to see the dog absolutely thrilled and engaged with his puzzle toy I think Graeme is fab at seeing not just the issue but the root cause very quickly
sunflowersandbuttercups · 17/02/2021 18:05

@BigWolfLittleWolf

The telling off for growling happened a few episodes ago with two dogs (one a spaniel, I forget the other) who didn't get on This episode made my blood run cold. He didn’t seem to notice the hard eyes or stiffness that came before the visible aggression. That bit when the two dogs were in the room together and he commented they were calm. We must have been watching totally different dogs because while they weren’t growling, they certainly were not calm.
Exactly, it's horrible.

So many people have no idea about dog body language. Just because your dog is silent, doesn't mean it's comfortable or happy with what's going on.

But hey, so long as it doesn't growl Hmm

SimonJT · 17/02/2021 18:07

@TakingTheLowRoad

Did no one else get the rage from watching the previous owners with the Sprocker. No stimulation given to to the dog. Then, when he resorted to destroying their belongings, they locked him in a bare crate. It was a total revelation to them when they were introduced to the concept of toys for the dog that stimulated his brain. I was shouting at the telly during that episode.
I just don’t understand how someone could get a dog and not play with them, why bother getting one in the first place?

A dog should have toys and daily playtime as standard for their welfare, but also because a happy contended dog is much much easier to live with.

TakingTheLowRoad · 17/02/2021 18:13

@SimonJT I know! I just couldn’t understand what they thought the dog was suppose to do all day, especially a bloody cocker/springer cross.

Clymene · 17/02/2021 18:27

@PollyRoulson

He is an idiot and a very poor trainer. I have no idea why TV companies keep insisiting on using such out of date trainers.

There is a petition to get the show off air.

Alternatively keep your eyes open for a new show by Chirag Patel an amazing intelligent, empathic highly skilled trainer.

Instead of removing food from the dog how about adding extra yummy food to the dogs bowl? The dog will then be extremely happy to see humans approaching his bowl, will not have any resource guarding issues and all happy. I guess calm makes boring tv.

Ooh I love Chirag Patel. Do you when it's coming on/what channel?

The trouble with proper dog training is it's boring to watch and doesn't make good telly.

Good telly doesn't mean a good trainer

victoriaspongecake · 17/02/2021 18:29

He is a bully. Totally outdated way of thinking and should definitely not be aired.
Have a look at AbsoluteDogs on Facebook for the best way to train dogs.
If Tom and Lauren had a dog training programme I guarantee the nations dogs would be improved. And more importantly the owner’s behaviour!

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 17/02/2021 18:41

There is a definite parallel between parenting trends and dog-training trends.

People fall into different camps, & are often passionate about them.

Personally, I find rigid adherence to any one school of parenting/ dog-training unhelpful. It's one of the reasons I don't spend much time on the dog threads, despite being a dog person.

Petitions? An idiot? I just don't see it.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 17/02/2021 19:31

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch
Personally, I find rigid adherence to any one school of parenting/ dog-training unhelpful
Agreed. I was a very touchy-feely baby-carrying feeding-on-demand mother, who did controlled crying because I couldn't stand the lack of sleep a day longer.

pigsDOfly · 17/02/2021 19:48

@TakingTheLowRoad

Did no one else get the rage from watching the previous owners with the Sprocker. No stimulation given to to the dog. Then, when he resorted to destroying their belongings, they locked him in a bare crate. It was a total revelation to them when they were introduced to the concept of toys for the dog that stimulated his brain. I was shouting at the telly during that episode.
Oh god yes, poor dog and those bloody idiot owners, I too was shouting at the tv.

Tbh there have been many episodes when I've thought that if I were the trainer I couldn't work with some of these people.

So many of them seem to have made no effort whatsoever to learn about training the animal they have taken into their homes, and they sit there all puzzled by the fact that their untrained dog isn't doing what they want and oddly enough can't read their minds.

tabulahrasa · 17/02/2021 20:43

I’ve said this before on a different thread...

The production team were looking for cases on dog forums before it started filming, they weren’t at all interested in harder cases, it was all stuff that would be really easily resolved by anyone with some experience of dogs.

So he definitely doesn’t go in blind and assess them there and then, they’ve been chosen specifically to make good tv.

Thermalpants · 17/02/2021 21:36

@TakingTheLowRoad, the family with the sprocker annoyed me too. I just don’t know what they expected the dog to do all flaming day. It would be the equivalent of shutting a human in a small room with nothing to do, no TV, no mobile phone etc every day. Why can’t people see it from a dog’s point of view? The same with removing food. A person would not tolerate having someone stand over them removing their food while they were trying to eat.

OP posts:
PollyRoulson · 17/02/2021 21:38

@Clymene Chirag TV show 1st March 5Star 9pm Cats and Dogs at War.

suggestionsplease1 · 17/02/2021 22:09

Whilst I do agree with the overall positive approach of adding high value treats to a bowl of food to lessen guarding response if there is an approach, I think you do ideally want to get the dog to a position where they will hand over food / you can remove it safely from them even if you don't have something to exchange.

If the dog will only tolerate an approach when it perceives there is a high value treat coming then you are still in a dilemma when it finds a chicken carcass in the park but you have nothing high value enough on you to make it want to give it up.

So I tend to think the end goal of that sort of training should be actually to be able to remove food from the dog when absolutely necessary. But yes. it can be built up to through positive training.

pigsDOfly · 17/02/2021 22:35

I recorded yesterday's programme and watched it this evening and tbh I think I must have been watching something different from some of the posters on here.

The whole problem with the lab and the food bowl was created by the owner who seemed to think that when a dog is eating it's a good idea to be some sort of 'alpha' member of a pack who has the right to remove food from under the dog's nose.

Frankly, I'm not surprised the poor bloody confused dog was growling at him; give me my food and then take it away while I'm eating and I'd more than growl at you.

However, at no point did Graeme Hall advise the man to touch the dog's bowl or take it away. The only reason the man's hand was near the bowl was in order to build up trust in the dog that the bowl wasn't going to be removed.

The dog's face and body language the first time the owner went to feed the dog was very nervous and showed very strongly that the dog was wary of the whole issue of food and being fed.

Where this idea that you should be able to remove a dog's bowl while it's eating came from is beyond me; it makes absolutely no sense, doesn't teach the dog anything, other than that it can't eat in peace and is just going to lead to frustration and aggression on the dog's part.

And as regard the research being done before Graeme Hall goes in to train the dogs, of course it's done like that. It's not real life, it's a television programme.

The programme needs to entertain and time is money. Everything needs to be in place beforehand for filming and making an interesting programme; it would be pretty tedious to sit and watch training sessions in real time.

Of course they don't use dog's with difficult ingrained problems for the programme, those sort of issues can take months to unravel.

We see only a tiny snapshot of a days filming, or however long they film each section for. I very much doubt he actually goes in, gives a few commands and the dog is trained, which is what the programme makes it appear he does.

BigWolfLittleWolf · 17/02/2021 22:46

The main issue I have with Grahame, and lots of programmes of this sort, is while it may be ‘entertainment’ it gives the impression that things like resource guarding, reactivity/aggression to other dogs, poor recall etc can be fixed super easily and they can’t.

It would be very easy for example to look at Grahame’s handling of dog aggressive dogs and think hey, all I need to do to fix my aggressive dog is be calm and assertive and give a pop on the leash, problem fixed!
Except that it doesn’t work like that...

Same with Milan, I have witnessed my neighbour before doing that silly shht shit with their (highly aggressive) dog, to no avail.

tabulahrasa · 17/02/2021 23:08

“And as regard the research being done before Graeme Hall goes in to train the dogs, of course it's done like that. It's not real life, it's a television programme.”

That was my point though - it’s an entertainment programme, not so much a dog training programme. So it’s all researched and set up accordingly.

SimonJT · 18/02/2021 06:06

@tabulahrasa

I’ve said this before on a different thread...

The production team were looking for cases on dog forums before it started filming, they weren’t at all interested in harder cases, it was all stuff that would be really easily resolved by anyone with some experience of dogs.

So he definitely doesn’t go in blind and assess them there and then, they’ve been chosen specifically to make good tv.

Surely that is blatantly obvious to anyone who watches it.
Clymene · 18/02/2021 06:25

[quote PollyRoulson]**@Clymene Chirag TV show 1st March 5Star 9pm Cats and Dogs at War.[/quote]
Thank you!

Leverover · 18/02/2021 07:21

Calling for the programme to be taken off is ridiculous. You may not like his methods but imagine if you were fired just because someone wasn’t a fan of your approach to work? Comments like that are why this site has a bad rep.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 18/02/2021 07:46

We see only a tiny snapshot of a days filming, or however long they film each section for. I very much doubt he actually goes in, gives a few commands and the dog is trained, which is what the programme makes it appear he does.

But that's his "selling point" - that he can go in and solve problems in minutes. He used to advertise it at the beginning of the show in earlier seasons.

I absolutely don't believe you can train a dog in seconds but so many people believe the hype around this man - and then they go in and try and train their own dog in the same way. It inevitable fails because training takes months of persistence and commitment, and the poor dog gets re-homed or given up on.

sunflowersandbuttercups · 18/02/2021 07:47

@Leverover

Calling for the programme to be taken off is ridiculous. You may not like his methods but imagine if you were fired just because someone wasn’t a fan of your approach to work? Comments like that are why this site has a bad rep.
But his techniques have the potential to be very dangerous. I think if anyone was putting lives at risk at work everyday, they would expect to get pulled up on it.