Worried - dog snapped at my child

[SoiPup]

As per previous posts, we live in Bangkok and adopted a dog from a shelter. Turns out the dog is 16 months old (not 9 as we thought). In the shelter, the dog was super confident, outgoing and friendly. Turns out she is an axious and fearful dog. She is super nervous on walks and also scared of any visitors - barks and growls at them and takes a long time to accept them.

Anyway, we had a trainer come over and she really helped us with the walks (the dog has improved amazingly) and gave us some tips on how to handle visitors.

However, this morning, the dog growled and snapped at my 6 year old. DD was in the dog's face and the dog had just come out the kitchen with some rice from her bowl (leftover from her breakfast) plus our cleaning lady had arrived which stresses the dog too. I didn't see exactly what happened. But she did snap at her which is clearly a red flag and a concern.

We do need to get 6 year old to give the dog some more space and to be more respectful of her, that is clear. Our previous dog was a confident big breed who would tolerate anything so that was her previous experience and obviously this dog is a completely different temperament.

Of course it is still early days with the dog (we've had her 10 days now) and the last thing I would want to do is rehome or send her back to the shelter, that would be awful. But I must admist I'm worried. Next week we're starting socialization and obedience classes as recommended by the trainer so I will discuss with the trainer then and see what she thinks. In the meantime, we are being much more careful with how DD approaches and interacts with the dog.

WWYD? Any advice on the best thing here?

'DD was in the dogs face'

You need to keep them separate, indefinitely.

DC need close supervision around dogs until the DC are considerably older than 6. If you are not able to do this, then yes rehoming is probably necessary. And do not get another dog - any dog - until DC is about age 10+ or your circumstances change and you can supervise sufficiently - as it is simply not fair on the dog

The dog needs a lot longer to feel relaxed and comfortable with you, at the shelter I imagine it had got used to the surrounding so was relaxed etc, 10 days is nothing at all

Your DC shouldn’t have been allowed to be ‘in the dogs face’ at all, it’s not fair for any dog, especially one who doesn’t really know you yet.

Keep them separate and always supervise, you can’t treat a new dog the same as one you had previously or think that it’ll react in the same way as one you had before who was used to your household, you really need to allow more time

My 3 year old nephew knows not to get in a dogs face, no excuse for a 6 year old. And saying your previous dog "tolerated anything" makes me think you don't really know how to have a dog in your home safely or handle the relationship between dog and child at all.

A rescue dog needs lots of time and space to settle in. I would go to dog training advice and support group on Facebook. It has lots of helpful advice from qualified behaviourists and in the meantime your child and dog need to be kept completely seperate

This is why most shelters won't let people with young children adopt dogs because children provoke dogs and stuff like this happens.

Your daughter should never 'be in the dog's face. And she should never be left alone with the dog.

You barely know the dog and yet you know that the cleaning lady stresses her. You should have been supervising and removing your dig from the stressful situation.

This was an entirely avoidable situation.

We were all in the same room, no one was unsupervised anywhere. But things can happen quickly. DD went to greet the dog as she came into the room. Until now the dog had seemed very relaxed and happy around DD so we were a bit more relaxed but, clearly, that was a mistake.

But, as I said, we are and will be more vigilant now as obviously the dog did not appreciate having her space invaded at that point in time (probably not helped by the fact that she had brought in some food from her bowl and there was a stranger in the house too).

I agree, it's early days and we want to make this work for her and for us. Certainly not racing to rehome her or to send her back. Not least because we are not in a country where I could easily find her a situation I would be happy with, the shelter we adopted her from was bursting at the seams. Thailand is not the UK when is comes to animal welfare...

@ReinventingTheSpiel

My 3 year old nephew knows not to get in a dogs face, no excuse for a 6 year old. And saying your previous dog "tolerated anything" makes me think you don't really know how to have a dog in your home safely or handle the relationship between dog and child at all.

A rescue dog needs lots of time and space to settle in. I would go to dog training advice and support group on Facebook. It has lots of helpful advice from qualified behaviourists and in the meantime your child and dog need to be kept completely seperate

We had our previous rescue dog from the age of 5 when we adopted him until he died at 14.5 a year ago. My older children were only 3 and 6 when we adopted him and my youngest joined along the way. He was a very different dog and I would say that after 9.5 years, we knew that dog and his signals very well. Yes, obviously we made a mistake with this new dog, but there's really no need to be insulting about how we looked after our dog. We took excellent care of our previous dog, he was very loved and looked after and enjoyed being around kids - all dogs are different.

Segregate with safety gates if you can. A dog needs his/her own space to relax during the day. I have a 3yo and a puppy and if I need the toilet the 3yo comes to the toilet with me so both puppy and 3yo are not left vulnerable. My older DC are fine around the dog unsupervised.

Hope your DD is okay.

We’ve had some experience of this and I had some excellent advice.

• don’t leave them unsupervised
• DC have to learn about good dog manners so don’t approach them head on, don’t grab them from behind or try to cuddle them, especially don’t disturb them when sleeping or with food
• dogs can find children very unpredictable and noisy (can’t we all) so they can make them anxious. There’s usually signs a dog is feeling this way although they’re not always obvious but licking lips, yawning, being able to see the whites of their eyes, going very still can all be a sign a dog is not happy. You can google all this.
• make sure the dog has a safe space where they can go to chill out in peace. My dog takes himself off to the kitchen when he’s tired and sometimes i put him in there to chill out when the kids are being a bit much
• eventually your daughter can help with some of the training and giving treats etc. but it’s still super early days for you and the dog is probably still decompressing from being in the shelter.
• I already said this but don’t leave them unsupervised. And maybe don’t even let your daughter fuss him for a bit. It’s hard with a 6 year old, I know, but so important.

This is not easy and all hearts and flowers but good luck. Such a lovely thing to rescue a dog. I hope it works out for you all.

@soipup my point is that your previous dog should not have had to tolerate "anything" being done to him. The fact that he did just goes to show what a good dog he was - not that you were doing the right thing by him by subjecting him to it in the first place

Good advice from above.
Whilst it's scary, a snap is a warning.
Your DD needs to give this dog space and not do the thing that caused the snap again. I think it's a good thing that the dog has responded quickly to training, but it does sound like you need to look at how your home is set up.
6 is still pretty young and understanding that this dog isn't like your previous dog and is still a bit scared and nervous is going to be really important. Is food guarding an issue for this pup?

You need to better educate your DD!!
She should know better than to get into a dog’s face, especially one new to your family and she certainly shouldn’t be doing anything that a dog has to “tolerate”.
Poor dogs!

Thanks for the advice. We will certainly be much stricter with DD about how to behave with the dog. The dog didn't give any signs at all, she had just come from the kitchen into the dining room where we were all sitting.

The dog does have her crate where she can go to and not be bothered.

DD is totally fine after the initial shock, thanks for asking! It was a growl and a snap, not a bite and a good point for us to reinforce the messaging about giving the dog space.

I guess it is very early days for the dog. She has had to learn to live in an apartment and toilet train, walk on busy streets on a lead, new family, new everything when she had spent her entire life in the shelter and hardly ever even left the enclosure. And we're only 10 days in.

[quote ReinventingTheSpiel]@soipup my point is that your previous dog should not have had to tolerate "anything" being done to him. The fact that he did just goes to show what a good dog he was - not that you were doing the right thing by him by subjecting him to it in the first place[/quote]
And my point is that some dogs like kids and the attention they give them! That was our old dog. He would search out the kids and didn't mind noise and energy and fussing over him. Tolerate probably was me projecting on to the dog - he actually enjoyed being with them

@Beamur

Good advice from above. Whilst it's scary, a snap is a warning. Your DD needs to give this dog space and not do the thing that caused the snap again. I think it's a good thing that the dog has responded quickly to training, but it does sound like you need to look at how your home is set up. 6 is still pretty young and understanding that this dog isn't like your previous dog and is still a bit scared and nervous is going to be really important. Is food guarding an issue for this pup?

Food/resource guarding isn't an issue with me, haven't tested with DD obviously. The trainer did warn us it might develop as the dog becomes more settled but i haven't noticed it.

And, yes, I agree. We need to manage expectations with DD that this dog is VERY different to our old one plus she needs more time to settle down.
I'll talk with the trainer at the class next week and see what she suggests in addition to making sure DD respects boundaries. The trainer knows the Thai mix dogs very well.

I remember with my first rescue, the home advised that the dog was on 'best behaviour' for the first week or so while they figured us out. After that, some other behaviours might emerge.
So, I'd say your dog is behaving fairly normally against that and you're picking up on it and responding to it.

This is exactly what rescues don’t rehome to homes with children and why if you have children you shouldn’t try and get round these rules by adopting from abroad.

Hope your DD is ok

The OP lives abroad. As she says the rescues are rammed with dogs. This one might need some work but it's chances of rehoming are slim.

Yes, we live in Bangkok and adopted a dog from one of the islands when we volunteered at a shelter there while on holiday. Conditions were so dire with covid - street dogs are starving because restaurants, bars and hotels are closed and pets have been abandoned because people - local and foreign - have left the island plus lack of donations and volunteers. They are trying their best but they have hundreds of dogs there as well as trying to feed and care for the starving street dogs.
This one dog at the shelter touched our heartstrings - she was so friendly and sweet- and we arranged to bring her back. The shelter staff thought she would be good for our family too. But seems she's got quite a different personality to what we saw in the shelter!
There are so many dogs that need homes. One with problems, certainly one who is not a purebred, will have practically no chance. Wed really have to send her back to the shelter on the island. But I'd only do that if she really does present a danger to the children and if the trainer says her behaviour can't be modified.
However, this evening she started barking and running at my 14 year old who was literally just walking by and doing nothing. No growling or snapping and when she was calm, 14 yo gave her treats and all was good, but still not sure what's going on with her. For now, we'll be a lot more careful at the interactions between dd and the dog and speak with the trainer to see what she suggests.

I'm guessing she was a street dog before rather than an abandoned pet?

She may have had a bad experience with a teenager or something?

My dog is scared of people in fluorescent jackets and tall men, particularly my neighbour who wears a long black overcoat and a fedora.

No idea why!

No. Shes been in shelter since she was a small pup. Its all she has known. No one has mistreated her but I guess not much socialisation and exposure to everyday life went on.

The shelter doesn't take in street dogs who are doing fine on the streets. They only take in ones who can't manage for whatever reason - sickness or disability, abandoned pups, abandoned pets etc. The street dogs are neutered and vaccinated and treated if sick or injured where possible but they won't keep a street dog that's doing fine in the shelter. They'd be totally overrun

Imo once your ddog has had it's meal remove the bowl altogether...
Dc /ddogs /food aren't a good mix...
Baby gate so your ddog and dc can be separated for family meal times.

Hi OP, you have done a lot with your dog in the 10 days that you have had her. I suspect that you might have done too much. Dogs need time to decompress after adoption. Have you read about trigger stacking?

I would reconsider taking her to an obedience class next week and get more one-on-one sessions with the trainer in your home instead.

It takes months for rescue dogs to truly relax in their new homes - you've barely had her any length of time at all.

It sounds like she's been through a lot in a very short space of time - new home, a small child, strangers in her home, toilet training, living in a house for the first time - that's very stressful.

I would keep her apart from DD for now unless you're right there to supervise everything that's going on. Lots of rescue dogs are well behaved at first, then once they settle, their "true personality" comes through to some extent.