Worried - dog snapped at my child

[SoiPup]

As per previous posts, we live in Bangkok and adopted a dog from a shelter. Turns out the dog is 16 months old (not 9 as we thought). In the shelter, the dog was super confident, outgoing and friendly. Turns out she is an axious and fearful dog. She is super nervous on walks and also scared of any visitors - barks and growls at them and takes a long time to accept them.

Anyway, we had a trainer come over and she really helped us with the walks (the dog has improved amazingly) and gave us some tips on how to handle visitors.

However, this morning, the dog growled and snapped at my 6 year old. DD was in the dog's face and the dog had just come out the kitchen with some rice from her bowl (leftover from her breakfast) plus our cleaning lady had arrived which stresses the dog too. I didn't see exactly what happened. But she did snap at her which is clearly a red flag and a concern.

We do need to get 6 year old to give the dog some more space and to be more respectful of her, that is clear. Our previous dog was a confident big breed who would tolerate anything so that was her previous experience and obviously this dog is a completely different temperament.

Of course it is still early days with the dog (we've had her 10 days now) and the last thing I would want to do is rehome or send her back to the shelter, that would be awful. But I must admist I'm worried. Next week we're starting socialization and obedience classes as recommended by the trainer so I will discuss with the trainer then and see what she thinks. In the meantime, we are being much more careful with how DD approaches and interacts with the dog.

WWYD? Any advice on the best thing here?

It take a while for rescues to settle in. I have had one of mine 6 months now hes settled great. Tell your DD to leave the dog alone she's 6 she will understand. Dogs can't say go away so will snap. I would not think of rehoming as you have not given your dog enough time to settle. Dont leave your child alone with the dog unsupervised. I have never left any of my kids alone with any of my dogs.

The trigger stacking is an interesting idea. I don't think we're doing that much with her BUT every walk is a stressor for her as Bangkok streets are noisy and full of challenges with people, cats, other dogs, food carts, garbage trucks, motorbikes, buses. She's been doing very well and improved a lot and perhaps we've pushed her a bit too much.

@SoiPup

The trigger stacking is an interesting idea. I don't think we're doing that much with her BUT every walk is a stressor for her as Bangkok streets are noisy and full of challenges with people, cats, other dogs, food carts, garbage trucks, motorbikes, buses. She's been doing very well and improved a lot and perhaps we've pushed her a bit too much.

If she finds walks incredibly stressful, you don't NEED to walk her everyday. It's not necessary. In fact, reactive/nervous dogs often do better on less walks as it keeps their adrenaline down. Look at some brain games and see if you can exercise and tire her out indoors while she settles in a bit.

Remember, if she's always lived in a shelter, everything she's experiencing is new to her. She's had no socialisation, she's never been around children (let alone lived with one), she's never experienced basic household noises like vacuum cleaners or showers, she's never been around traffic or loud noises or cats or anything like that.

Get her settled in at home before you get her used to outdoors. This isn't the same as adopting a rescue who was previously lived in a house or with a family. She's had no socialisation or life experience outside of a shelter environment.

@vanillandhoney
That's what I thought and we were just starting to take her around the car park to get her used to that but the trainer's approach was to take her out for walks and help her deal with her fears. It did work and the dog is becoming more relaxed on her walks. But, yeah, maybe we should scale back for now. The dogs werent walked in the shelter, they were just in a yard so she's also learning to walk on a lead.

[quote SoiPup]@vanillandhoney
That's what I thought and we were just starting to take her around the car park to get her used to that but the trainer's approach was to take her out for walks and help her deal with her fears. It did work and the dog is becoming more relaxed on her walks. But, yeah, maybe we should scale back for now. The dogs werent walked in the shelter, they were just in a yard so she's also learning to walk on a lead.[/quote]
I don't think flooding a dog with loads of new experiences all at once is particularly useful tbh. I don't know what dog training is like in Bangkok but in my experience, flooding will either totally shut a dog down (so they appear relaxed but they're just shut off completely) or it could send them into overdrive and you could cause major problems.

I would just take it slowly - there's really no rush. She's so young still :)

We'll scale it back and see how she does.
Like anywhere, dog training is a bit of a unregulated mess - and in Thailand too - but our trainer comes well recommended and is well qualified and saw how the dog reacted so I'm trusting she knows what she's doing!

There is a really good group on Facebook called dog training advice and support and it's really worth reading through some of the units on there. Lots about trigger stacking.

Firstly, congratulations on your new addition to the family, and great that you’ve adopted a rescue! 😎😊 A few thoughts, that have pretty much been covered already but I’ll chip in too...

...However, this morning, the dog growled and snapped at my 6 year old. DD was in the dog's face…
Our previous dog was a confident big breed who would tolerate anything so that was her previous experience and obviously this dog is a completely different temperament
As PPs have said, no dog should have to “tolerate anything”, it’s unfair on the dog and if your children are used to that it’s very easy for them to think all dogs are OK with the same treatment. But they’re individuals with their own histories and triggers. When I've adopted rescues this, and to give them time to settle in, has always been stressed.

I guess it is very early days for the dog. She has had to learn to live in an apartment and toilet train, walk on busy streets on a lead, new family, new everything when she had spent her entire life in the shelter and hardly ever even left the enclosure. And we're only 10 days in.
Wow, that’s a lot of new things for dog to take in in such a short space of time isn’t it.

The dog needs a lot longer to feel relaxed and comfortable with you, at the shelter I imagine it had got used to the surrounding so was relaxed etc, 10 days is nothing at all
Exactly. OP, imagine how you feel starting a new job. It’s stressful and takes a while to feel as though you fit in and can relax, and that’s with animals of the same species (human). So imagine what it must be like for dogs that have come from rescue centres. Give doggo space and time to settle in before you do anything much. And as other posters have said, as she’s spent her whole life in kennels, everything will be new (and potentially stressful) to her. Things like your family, your home, the walks, the cleaner, the dog trainer, the washing machine, the hoover...
No idea what sort of training she had in kennels but I know that some rescue in the UK will “house train” their dogs to normal household activities to reduce the stress once they’re rehomed for exactly this reason.

My dog snapped at my eldest when he was first crawling and got in her face. I kept them apart for years, now both are older and used to each other and it's no problem.

My younger dog isn't allowed to roam free when the kids are out, he doesn't know how unpredictable kids are so doesn't stay away. So we keep them apart. In the garden or on walks everyone has a good time and there are no worries.

I set my dogs and children up for success. It's hard when children want to love and hug a dog so I keep the dog out of their way.

I'd honestly rethink the 'socialisation' classes

Your dog will be massively overwhelmed and trigger-stacked - see www.albanypetservices.co.uk/so-what-is-trigger-stacking/

Exposure to new experiences and training is just more trigger stacking. She's likely totally overwhelmed already - she needs continuity, reassurance and a safe haven, not more stressful 'learning opportunities' There will be time for training later.

Is she a Thai street dog? Any idea of breeding?

You really need to scale things back, keep the children away. They should NEVER approach her when she's eating or sleeping. Focus on rapport building and basic obedience training at home using fear free methods

We'll give her a low key day today and see how she does. I'm out with 6 yo and its only Dh and 14 yo at home and no guests expected today so things are quieter. We'll give her short car park walks (no garden so thats our only option)

"Is she a Thai street dog? Any idea of breeding?"

Yeah, Thai mix. Seems to have a bit of ridgeback in her.

"your home, the walks, the cleaner, the dog trainer, the washing machine, the hoover...
No idea what sort of training she had in kennels but I know that some rescue in the UK will “house train” their dogs to normal household activities to reduce the stress once they’re rehomed for exactly this reason."

Zero training! They don't expect the dogs to be adopted. Nearly all of them, once in the shelter, will spend their entire lives there . One of the staff described conditions as a refugee camp. They were meeting the dogs' basic needs: food, water, medical attention if needed but they don't have resources for much more. The staff and volunteers were kind to the animals and devoted to their work but with so many animals and so few resources, there's only so much they can do. Certainly no point in training the dogs when so very few will ever be adopted.

Train your six year old better, and dont flood your dog with too much at a time. Slowly and gently not forcing her to confront anything.

Thai ridge backs are a reactive breed.
Most land race or locally adapted breeds have retained their reactivity because it's an essential component of surviving as a free roaming dog.

Additionally she's likely had to compete for resources in the shelter and so learned to protect food and anything else precious.

She needs time, reassurance, peace and most importantly to build a bond with a trusted human. Ridgebacks can be incredibly loyal and loving but you need to build a relationship with her, so that she can relax and learn to trust you.

Ensure she has a safe haven in your home where she can retreat to and be undisturbed. Make sure everyone knows her haven is off limits.

Please do read about trigger stacking and ensure she's given time, peace and quiet to recover and adjust

Also just to emphasise - she clearly has no desire to actually be aggressive - she growled and air-snapped. This is excellent communication that means 'back-off' and is a clear sign that she's uncomfortable but does not want to hurt anyone. She just wants space.
These articles have some great info on child-dog interactions that may be helpful for your 6 year old, and help you to recognise early signs of stress in your dog

drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/kids-and-dogs-how-kids-should-and-should-not-interact-with-dogs/

drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/dog-bite-prevention-week-poster-on-the-body-language-of-fear-and-aggression/

www.pdsa.org.uk/taking-care-of-your-pet/looking-after-your-pet/puppies-dogs/canine-ladder-of-communication

She's actually not shown any resource guarding at all and I'm watching for it. They kept her in with the older puppies rather than moving her to the teen dog enclosure so she's had less competition in that sense.

She's also strangely not a foody at all. She's turning her nose up at a lot of the food and treats we offer her! (again, she is the polar opposite of our last dog who would have sold his soul for any food that wasn't his regular kibble!) I asked at the shelter what she would have and it would have been the cheapest kibble or the cheapest meat offcuts mixed with rice. Kibble she's turning her nose up to completely and I've tried a few times from posh to cheap. I cooked up a pan of rice and chicken hearts, thinking that wilbe familiarly. She carefully picked out the hearts and left the rest! She only agrees to eat pouches of wet food and will carefully spit out the kibble if I try to sneakily mix it in there!

I know she's not aggressive and that it was a back off warning. She'd have easily bitten her if she'd have wanted to!

She's much smaller than a pure bred ridgeback (only 12kg) but does have a slightly raised ridge on her back which the trainer pointed out.

This is our little four legged friend

Yep def a ridgeback x
She's lovely and it all sounds promising OP, hang in there!

Food-selectivity is definitely a thing in street dogs too. And it makes sense - they need to be careful what they eat when many things are dangerous!

Keep on with the kibble - a nutritionally complete dog food is important, and don't worry if she picks or grazes sporadically.

Must street dogs I know are lean and much less interested in food than modern dog breeds - I think they regulate their appetites according to their activity much better.

She's gorgeous!

Look at the mess shes making all over the floor trying not to eat the kibble
She's behaving like a pig searching for truffles as she noses through the food for the chicken hearts which is all she wants!

Shes literally spitting out the kibble!

Aww she's gorgeous. What a sweet wee face.

I was advised when we took on our dog that some rescue dogs can take 3 months to fully settle in, relax, and feel safe in their new home. Some take just a few weeks but many need at least a couple of months to adjust and "decompress". You're only 10 days in so I'd work on keeping her feeling safe with a structured steady routine and not too much going on to overwhelm her.

And listen to Vetenari, she's fab

I stand corrected. She is now resource guarding. She has a chew bone that she loves. She's started resource guarding with that. Snarled at DH when he came near her when she was chewing it yesterday (and she'd had a very low key day so unlikely to be trigger stacking, at least not from that day). I even got a little growl from her when I followed up. Managed to take it with a higher value treat but this is going to have to be now a priority area to work on. Now all chews are banished unless she's shut in her crate as too much of a risk with DD around (DH hadn't even noticed she has her chew as her back was turned, DD could easily make that kind of mistake).

Wow, this dog is going to be a LOT of work!