Giant dogs

[Seekingasaintmaybe]

Could I please get some thorough advice from any giant breed owners please?

There is some conflict between DH and I.
Eventually, after all this covid horror, we want another dog.

I would ideally prefer a smaller breed this time.
DH wants to go the other way, he wants a giant breed.
There is a Saint Bernard breeder near us (though she hasn’t a litter for a while now) and he is hinting at a Bernard.

The thing is though, I know they drool a lot and I HATE drooly dogs.
I don’t mind the hair though.

I don’t find them attractive to look at compared to other breeds, they are too heavy set and clunky for my liking (or are their owners just keeping them fat..?)
I have seen some old photographs of beautiful Saint Bernards (muscular and strong but slim) but none of the real life Bernard’s I’ve seen look like that.

I’m also a little scared about my ability to control it and if it goes ‘bad’/develops aggression problems.
There is a Saint Bernard locally that is quite badly behaved, fortunately i haven’t seen it in ages.
It plonks itself down and refuses to move for its owner whenever it fancies and it doesn’t like my dog and lunges when it sees her which is frankly terrifying.

I’m worried incase we get this dog and it turns out to have issues and i can’t control it.
Our current dog is mildly dog reactive/dog selective but she is perfectly capable of making friends (hence wanting another dog) but I don’t typically let her interact with dogs we don’t know.
She’s fairly small and easily controlled but a giant wouldn’t be...

So I’d really appreciate some advice from giant breed owners.
Good and bad.
Are problem behaviours like dog aggression, resource guarding and the like a known problem as with some other breeds?

I would never get a dog that you can’t physically control.

Especially if you already have a reactive dog, how can you safely walk both?

Interesting. Do you want to know about giant breeds in general, or St Bernard's specifically?

I'd love a giant dog - one of my DC campaigns for a Great Dane on a semi-regular basis! - but I'm afraid if you don't want a droolly dog then most giant breeds are out although maybe an Irish Wolfhound is not too bad?

You need rock solid training, obviously, as you just cannot leave to chance that a massive dog will not obey you.

And a big enough house/sofa...

My current dog doesn’t lunge or anything like that.
She walks nicely on lead but if a dog approaches her and I don’t carry on walking she’ll growl at them.

Off leash it’s extremely rare that she will approach another dog and she has never bitten.

We have introduced her to dogs of friends and family at home and she’s been fine.

My intention is to initially walk separately then when the pup is older try them together as I don’t want the puppy learning bad behaviour off my existing dog

Interesting. Do you want to know about giant breeds in general, or St Bernard's specifically?
Interested in all giant breeds but if all the ones I’m aware of, Saint Bernards are the ones that are most appealing.

Giant breeds tend not to live as long as smaller breeds & some can be prone to health problems rare in small dogs like torsion.

I am aware of torsion, I understand advice in the past was raised bowls only and no food or water straight after exercise.
Is that still the recommended advice?

@Seekingasaintmaybe

I am aware of torsion, I understand advice in the past was raised bowls only and no food or water straight after exercise. Is that still the recommended advice?

Yes. Giant breeds are very prone to bloat.

Also their life spans are considerably shorter than other breeds. Plus think of the expenses - food, insurance, medication, surgery, vet treatment - everything costs more for a giant breed. Even simple things like harnesses and dog beds will set you back more for a St Bernard than they would, say, a spaniel.

My neighbour had 5 in a very small house.. Once went for a cuppa and seriously had no idea where /how to hold a cup safely!! Very well behaved - just wall to walll fur!

It’s more temperament/behaviour that I'm wanting reassurance on I think.
Bad behaviour in say a chihuahua doesn’t worry me as much because they are so small.
But behavioural issues in a giant is a big problem!
I know that certain breeds are known for certain issues eg spaniels - resource guarding, collies - noise sensitivity, Staffies - possible dog aggression etc
Is there anything I need to be aware of in the giant breeds? Specifically the saints?
That’s my main concern.

I have been reading up on health issues, health testing etc and I am pricing up the cost with food, collars etc etc

Have you considered a Bernese Mountain Dog, @Seekingasaintmaybe? They have lovely temperaments (if socialised and trained well, like all dogs, I guess) and they don't drool very much. They are absolutely beautiful dogs and if I had the space, I'd have ten of them!

They generally have pretty good temperaments but you will need to think about things like training - especially making sure they walk nicely on a lead and don't pull

I sometimes meet up with someone who has a 60kg+ dog - he's impeccably trained but she has spent HOURS working on it. But she has no choice - if he pulled, she would stand no chance of holding him back. As it is, she uses a waist belt, plus another lead for extra control. It also means if she drops one lead or it slips, he can't bolt off.

He's gorgeous but she has put so much work into him it's unreal.

Friend of mine has a Newfoundland. Very very drooly.
She's an experienced owner of giant breeds and has worked very hard to socialise her dog. It's got a lovely temperament around other dogs but is very needy and rather dim. Coat requires a lot of maintenance. Despite gold star treatment at all times (dog is very well looked after) it's had lots of niggly health problems with skin and allergies in particular.
You also need to be very picky about where to kennel it if you go away. They always need to be around people who understand their needs.

I used to own a Great Dane. Fabulous temperament- she used to sit on my lap at every opportunity! Fine with other dogs but hated horses for some reason. Maybe because they were bigger than her! We had a bitch rather than a dog as I was worried a dog would be too strong for me. I could control her on the lead just fine. She did drool though, but only when I was getting her food ready. As other posters have said , they sadly don’t live as long as smaller dogs. Our girl was nearly 11 when she died and that is considered pretty ancient for a Dane.

I really think that if you don't like droolly dogs you would be quite mad to get a St Bernard! That aside, they're friendly and not barky or aggressive if well bred, well socialised etc. They can suffer from some costly health problems though, and they need people around a lot I think - and if they suffer from separation anxiety obviously they're a big dog that can do a lot of damage. And all giant breeds take longer to mature on a shorter life span so you basically have an overgrown puppy in a massive dog's body for a greater proportion of their life.

Different giant breeds will have different temperaments, though, so can't generalise. Huge difference between a St Bernard and a Dogue de Bordeaux, or a Dane and a Wolfhound.

I've looked at large breeds and would get a female leonberger if I could afford it. They are big but not huge being smaller framed than the Pyreneans and St Bernards. There is a Tibetan Mastiff who,lives locally. Beautiful dog but stubborn as the day is long and not a beginners dog according to his owner.

I really think that if you don't like droolly dogs you would be quite mad to get a St Bernard
It’s my DH really, he really wants a giant breed, a Saint Bernard or possibly Leonberger are the two he is most interested in.
Of the giant breeds i’ve looked into, the Great Pyrenees appeal to me the most. Maybe a Bernese.

I love all dogs but really, I want a small breed.
But then I insisted on the breed we have currently so do feel really quite unreasonable insisting on another breed of my choosing!
But then drool, god I hate drool... 🤢
Fur and mud I honestly don’t mind but drool just turns my stomach.

I have had Great Pyrenees for many years, my parents trained working dogs professionally, I have also fostered many, many dogs.

Pyrs are absolutely not suitable if you do not have experience with working dogs, and livestock guardians in particular, and I would go so far as to say it is rare that you find one suitable to be "just a pet".
Mine have always been working dogs, and much adored pets who live in the house too, but they need a job, otherwise they will create one for themselves - that`s not fun!

Pyrs are solemn, intelligent, serious dogs, they are suspicious (to varying degrees from standoffish to hostile) of strangers and other dogs, and they consider anyone who doesn`t live in your house a stranger, no matter how often you see them.

They are very hard to train, they are not at all food motivated (excepting two fosters I had, both of whom had been previously starved) and will only do as you ask once they respect and trust you. They are extremely stubborn and think for themselves, if they do not see they point in doing something, or think you`re wrong they will do what they think best instead, unless you are "their person" and have gained their absolute loyalty.

They also tend to be one person dogs - PoleDog would jump over the moon for me and will instantly obey even voiceless commands without question.
DH can forget it though, PoleDog will only do what DH asks if I am on earshot (as he knows I like him to do what DH asks, bit of a brown noser that dog ) or if he feels like it. PoleDog is also one of the most biddable Pyrs I have ever had.

Livestock guardian breeds see the world in a distinctly different way to most dogs, and they need different training. You have to gain their respect, love and trust first before they will listen to a word you say, and that brings its own challenges.

Pyrs are amazing dogs, but they need a job, experienced livestock guardian breed owners and acres of land in a remote/rural area.

Obviously all dogs are individuals, but Pyrs are bloody hard work, as much as I love mine. PolePup (poodle cross) on the other hand is a sheer joy and delight to train, and loves doing what he`s told!

Ah, I saw a ringful of elegant, placid, soft Great Pyrenees when I visited Crufts years ago and assumed like other working breeds there must be a strong work/show split. Perhaps not.

@RunningFromInsanity

I would never get a dog that you can’t physically control.

Especially if you already have a reactive dog, how can you safely walk both?

The exact same advice my grandfather gave and he knew a thing or two about animals.

Of the giant breeds in my local park there is a leonberger and a landseer who live together and are lovely dogs. Quite hairy and drooly though.

There is also a Swiss mountain dog, its like a Bernese but less hairy and less drooly. They arent huge but perhaps an option. There are lots of truly giant dogs in the park too; great Danes, wolfhounds, mastiffs etc but they are really massive and often struggle to make doggy friends. They also have quite short life spans which I worry about.

I would never get a dog that you can’t physically control
Can anyone truly control a giant breed dog that decides to go rogue?
Dogs are extremely strong for their size.
Nonetheless, it is a concern of mine.

Especially if you already have a reactive dog, how can you safely walk both?
The exact same advice my grandfather gave and he knew a thing or two about animals
I’ve already answered this.
Current dog is very mildly dog aggressive, as in growls at dogs that approach her.
But she does have dog friends and if introduced to dogs in the house she is okay.

I will walk them separately at first.
Partly because a puppy won’t be able to manage the mileage current dog gets, it would be bad for its joints and I can’t carry him/her and partly because I don’t want the pup to pick up on any negative feelings from current dog to other dogs before I’ve properly socialised him/her.

Well bred, well trained, well adjusted Pyrs are elegant, soft and calm, mine have always been completely bombproof and rock solid temperament wise. You would be very hard pushed for find a breed more gentle or caring with children or smaller animals.

Although it isn`t their primary "job" I have used many of mine for search and rescue, PoleDog excels at it and is eternally calm even in the most critical situations.

At Crufts you were seeing them off their own property (night and day difference in their behaviour between the two) away from whoever they consider their "flock" and handled by people with years of experience with Pyrs who will have trained them for Crufts and will have picked Pyrs able to tolerate the requirements of Crufts. Not all can.

As you have a reactive dog anyway it would be a disaster waiting to happen getting a Pyr. Your Pyr would be extremely protective of your older dog, and the second another dog got even mildly shirty with your older dog, even if your older dog instigated it things would escalate fast.
If you do not have the knowledge or ability to control a Pyr in a temper who thinks they know best, especially when they hit the teenage stage and are bolshy and bratty, do not get one.

I dont mean that in a harsh way, but when they feel one of their "flock" is being threatened they will do whatever it takes to subdue the threat. Thats what they have been bred for and their focus on it is absolute. When that threat is someone`s off lead spaniel who snarled at your older dog when older dog barked at it, that is not a pretty situation.

First and foremost Pyrs have been bred to protect flocks, they will always be focused on protection, they are "guardians" and that means actively watching for threats and managing situations so that threats do not develop. They do not make good "just pets".

Blimey pole!
Your post makes me love them even more but you are quite right, I’m not the right home for one at all.

Can anyone truly control a giant breed dog that decides to go rogue?

No, you can`t. PoleDog weighs more than me, I have no hope of stopping him if he decided not to listen to me, which is why I have spent and thousands of hours (no exaggeration) training him, still train him every day now, and carefully manage situations all the time when we are out and about.

partly because I don’t want the pup to pick up on any negative feelings from current dog to other dogs before I’ve properly socialised him/her

Pyrs do not like other dogs (they fall into the potential threat to the flock category in their minds), those feelings will already be there and will be amplified by your other dog`s reactivity.

To be completely honest I would seriously question whether getting another dog is a good idea when you already have a reactive dog, its is not something I would ever voluntarily want. You would be hard pushed to find any other dog who will not side with your dog and kick off too when you do eventually walk them together, no matter how much you socialise the pup.