Giant dogs

[Seekingasaintmaybe]

Could I please get some thorough advice from any giant breed owners please?

There is some conflict between DH and I.
Eventually, after all this covid horror, we want another dog.

I would ideally prefer a smaller breed this time.
DH wants to go the other way, he wants a giant breed.
There is a Saint Bernard breeder near us (though she hasn’t a litter for a while now) and he is hinting at a Bernard.

The thing is though, I know they drool a lot and I HATE drooly dogs.
I don’t mind the hair though.

I don’t find them attractive to look at compared to other breeds, they are too heavy set and clunky for my liking (or are their owners just keeping them fat..?)
I have seen some old photographs of beautiful Saint Bernards (muscular and strong but slim) but none of the real life Bernard’s I’ve seen look like that.

I’m also a little scared about my ability to control it and if it goes ‘bad’/develops aggression problems.
There is a Saint Bernard locally that is quite badly behaved, fortunately i haven’t seen it in ages.
It plonks itself down and refuses to move for its owner whenever it fancies and it doesn’t like my dog and lunges when it sees her which is frankly terrifying.

I’m worried incase we get this dog and it turns out to have issues and i can’t control it.
Our current dog is mildly dog reactive/dog selective but she is perfectly capable of making friends (hence wanting another dog) but I don’t typically let her interact with dogs we don’t know.
She’s fairly small and easily controlled but a giant wouldn’t be...

So I’d really appreciate some advice from giant breed owners.
Good and bad.
Are problem behaviours like dog aggression, resource guarding and the like a known problem as with some other breeds?

DHs friend is a (very good) breeder of OES but they just don’t appeal to us.

With exercise and Saints, I must cover at least 8 miles a day, probably more.
I thought they were bred as search and rescue which I assume must require stamina?
And I imagine other large breeds bred for working, Pyrenees for example, must cover an awful lot of ground.

So I thought a slim and healthy Saint Bernard would be able to manage long walks.
To be honest, I’m a bit concerned hearing that they may only be able to manage a stroll.
That doesn’t strike me as a very healthy dog..?

In theory I can just walk it separately from my other dog but it seems a shame for the new dog (once trained) to miss out on a nice long, scenic, daily walk.

@BadEyeBri

I'd never have a dog that I couldn't lift and carry myself in an emergency

That is a consideration. I remember my parents' GSD was really poorly one day, and I had to get him to the vet. We just about managed to get him in the car, but the other side was a nightmare (he was bleeding internally, but we didn't know). I ended up saying "DDog, WALK!!!" and bless him, such a good boy, he did. But it would have been a whole lot easier if he was small.

My current GSDX is 46kg, so I hope he stays fit and well, then has a swift death, because it would be very hard to lift him in to a car on my own.

Around two 30 minute walks is all they need really. DH still keen on a Labrador in future, but in my view that's too much energy in a dog. We are enjoying our Saint, but they can be stubborn. If you want to walk, get their lead on, they will often just plonk themselves down and you have to either lift her up, or just wait until she's ready. Can take several minutes. Not for those who are in a hurry 😆

@Seekingasaintmaybe most large/giant breed dogs have been selectively bred to be bigger and heavier to meet kennel club and human imposed breed standards. They bear no resemblance to their old working predecessors. This is why we have German shepherd that are crippled in their hind limbs and mountain breeds like St Bernards and Bernese Mountain Dogs that can't really tolerate much exercise.
Pedigree dogs have been ruined by people who selectively breed for look rather than being fit for purpose. Things are slowly starting to change and there are a few good breeders out there but they are like hens teeth.

"With exercise and Saints, I must cover at least 8 miles a day, probably more."

That won't work with a Saint. You need to look at another breed, sorry.

BadEyeBri has explained it well.

blowinahoolie thank you. I will admit a professional interest as I'm a small animal vet. It's so incredibly sad what we've done to some smashing breeds of dog. I'm not a huge fan of the -adoodles or -poos but at least there's an injection of some genetic diversity. I'll sit here quietly in the corner with my 3 lurchers that will run all day or sleep all day and be happy whichever. I can lift them all too

I would love a Bernard or Leo but purely cause they are just such gorgeous dogs! Not practical for me though so it remains a dream!
I have a lovely Labrador, she’s very happy to go on a big ole walk and then happily sleep at my feet or cuddle on the sofa for the rest of the day, while I’ve been wfh she happily curls up by my feet for 8hrs (give or take a few garden breaks) all I’ve met are happy to do as much or little as you want to do (might be why some get fat) good endurance and very family friendly

😖
Are there any giant breeds out there that are capable of walking long distance..?
I don’t expect them to run or jump or do flyball or agility or anything.
Just a long relaxed walk.

What about a Dalmatian op?

Possibly a Great Dane, a mastiff type (English or Cane Corso but not Dogue De Bordeaux), Irish Wolfhound, Scottish Deerhound.
But with all of these you must pick your breeder well. The parents should look fit and atheletic without being extreme. All should be appropriately health tested. Remember giant breeds have a comparatively short life span. 10 is old for these guys.

@Darklane

Yes I agree that @BadEyeBri has explained it very well, what were once working breeds are often no longer capable of the tasks they are originally bred for.
The true livestock guardian breeds, Pyrs, Kangals, Maremmas, Anatolian Shepherds, Komondors et al continue to be bred for work rather than show, but they have a very different mindset to most dogs, I have heard it called a more primitive mindset, and that rings true in my experience.

They are extremely rarely suitable as just pets, and not unless you have lots of land, live remotely and have a job for them too - they are not dogs you would take to the park to play with other dogs.
They are stubborn, extremely hard to train, they think they know best all the time as they have been bred to make their own decisions and usually dislike everyone and everything outside their family and flock.

With some individuals Grandma and Grandpa can dream on if they think theyre getting within five feet of the grandkids. Dont live in the house = potential threat. Even if they see the person every single day, if you don`t live in the house they will never trust you.

Of course there is a spectrum - the most benign end is glaring daggers at Granny and Grandpa when they are with the DC and doing their best to look intimidating, which is not hard with giant dogs. Pyrs and other true livestock guardians do not like anyone in their house.

Some well bred, well trained, well adjusted ones will tolerate it whilst glaring, others will be doing their best to block or push the interloper out of the way of their family. PoleDog will sit still as a statue at my feet looking sulky and grumbling under his breath until they leave.

Livestock guardians are bred to laze around guarding the flock, and although they will move with the flock, they are not constantly roaming. Most of their time would be sat watching with periodic patrolling.

My Pyrs, and the Maremma I had could hike miles and miles, and I have used some of the ones suited to it for search and rescue, but you need to pick the individual carefully and build up to it. Also, they love the search but could care less about the rescue part - the entire world could burn for all they care so long as their family and "flock" (smaller pets in the family if they don`t actually have a flock) are safe.

Of course there are exceptions, but they are not easy dogs.

I love Scottish deerhounds, love Borzoi too but DH isn’t at all keen.
I probably could convince him to buy a breed of my choosing, it just seems a bit selfish to do so considering our current dog was my choice.
I’m really not comfortable with a dog being unable to manage more than a few miles of exercise though.
It just doesn’t sit right with me from an ethical perspective so think we have to go for something else.

Mine would quite happily walk for miles. Not saying they would run long distances but a they enjoy a family day out in the lakes and that type of thing.
They also run, swim, play, chase a ball.
I exercise them the same amount as my GSD on an average day and they don’t struggle.
Mine are fit, well muscled and not fat. Just because it’s a giant does not mean it needs to be obese.

They just don’t need the exercise to stay sane and are just as happy either way unlike my GSD who would go insane on day 2 without a good run. That’s the difference.

I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s unethical for a dog not to want to walk miles. Lots and lots of dogs of all sizes and types have lower exercise requirements and it does not mean they are unhealthy or miserable because of it.

I wouldn`t say it was selfish @Seekingasaintmaybe, I would say that you have more realistic ideas about the sort of dog who would be suitable than your DH .

My dream dog is a Leonberger - can't wait until I live in a country cool enough to have one!

Mine would quite happily walk for miles. Not saying they would run long distances but they enjoy a family day out in the lakes and that type of thing
That is precisely what I am looking for.
Long, relaxed walks.
I can’t run myself so not wanting the dog to be a running buddy 🤣
But I do walk long distances most days.

Just because it’s a giant does not mean it needs to be obese
I agree and very hot on keeping current dog a healthy weight.
I can’t stand seeing fat dogs!

I don’t think it’s fair to say it’s unethical for a dog not to want to walk miles. Lots and lots of dogs of all sizes and types have lower exercise requirements and it does not mean they are unhealthy or miserable because of it
It just doesn’t seem natural to me.
It feels wrong to have a dog unable to exercise more than a few miles or run after a ball.
I feel the same way about certain breeds of cat, you expect a cat to be out and about climbing, hunting etc.
It just feels wrong.

If you want big, lazy and placid get a retired ex racer greyhound!

Some of the males are big big dogs and the most delightful, beautiful dogs ever. Need hardly any walking and sleep 18 hours a day!

Greyhounds are amazing with children. I have fostered ex racers and every one was soppy as anything with DC. Literally the safest dogs I can imagine.

And they are also happy for long slow ambles. One of mine would happily be out with me all day.

No greyhounds, sorry.
I have young children and I will not bring in an adult dog of unknown history where I haven’t been able to meet it’s parents, been able to socialise it etc

So you get the best of all worlds.

Lazy in the house
Can do as little or as much walking as you like
No drool
Big
Totally safe with kids

@Seekingasaintmaybe I know what you mean in terms of dogs that aren’t able exercise (or breathe in some cases )

It’s not been my experience though. Mine are happy to play with each other and run around and also go for nice walks. They walk twice a day without fail in all weathers and never are unhappy to go. They also spend a lot of time in the garden wrestling and sniffing around. They do zoom for 5mins a day but they would rather be sniffing and pottering about. They also love to swim!!
I take mine camping, they love it and walk around all day long. Like I say I do keep mine lean and fit though and can’t stand obese ones.

I would say they just don’t have much drive though. Where my GSD is always waiting for the next thing, the Leo’s are happy to be going for a walk when they see the leads but aren’t actively waiting to go if that makes sense!

I did obedience with mine and found the same struggle. They will do whatever you ask but they just don’t have that thing that competitive or more lively dogs have that make them hang on your every word and I think that’s what makes them easily described as lazy. They aren’t lazy as such but when they are home they aren’t thinking about what’s next, just home, happy, sleep until you say otherwise!

They are useless in the heat though so hot summers days are out and I don’t walk them at all if it’s warmer than average.

I do think if your going to have to share your home with such a huge dog you have to really really want one though. They are a lifestyle choice more than a pet and there are a lot of negatives that can make life with one a pain if your not 100% on board with it.

Also I have a bad back and couldn’t even carry a terrier home if I needed too so maybe I shouldn’t have any dog at all

We have an old English sheepdog op.
Drooling is horrendous, everything (twigs, brambles, poo, etc) gets caught in his coat.
Grooming is every day plus a professional groom every 3 weeks, which is expensive.
He's clumsy, messy, and follows us round constantly. Love him to bits ❤️
He's quite lazy and has a tendency to put on weight. Very well behaved though.

Just remember that everything is lots more expensive with a giant breed - especially at the vets. Also their life expectancy can be less than smaller dogs.

The other thing which can be a bit of a nightmare is getting them neutered, PoleDog who is usually extremely stoic turned into a fragile little flower.
He wanted to be carried outside and down the porch steps long after he was happy doing much more strenuous things when it suited him .

How about a Leonberger?

Huge dog. Not drooly (or no more than an average dog anyway).