Giant dogs

[Seekingasaintmaybe]

Could I please get some thorough advice from any giant breed owners please?

There is some conflict between DH and I.
Eventually, after all this covid horror, we want another dog.

I would ideally prefer a smaller breed this time.
DH wants to go the other way, he wants a giant breed.
There is a Saint Bernard breeder near us (though she hasn’t a litter for a while now) and he is hinting at a Bernard.

The thing is though, I know they drool a lot and I HATE drooly dogs.
I don’t mind the hair though.

I don’t find them attractive to look at compared to other breeds, they are too heavy set and clunky for my liking (or are their owners just keeping them fat..?)
I have seen some old photographs of beautiful Saint Bernards (muscular and strong but slim) but none of the real life Bernard’s I’ve seen look like that.

I’m also a little scared about my ability to control it and if it goes ‘bad’/develops aggression problems.
There is a Saint Bernard locally that is quite badly behaved, fortunately i haven’t seen it in ages.
It plonks itself down and refuses to move for its owner whenever it fancies and it doesn’t like my dog and lunges when it sees her which is frankly terrifying.

I’m worried incase we get this dog and it turns out to have issues and i can’t control it.
Our current dog is mildly dog reactive/dog selective but she is perfectly capable of making friends (hence wanting another dog) but I don’t typically let her interact with dogs we don’t know.
She’s fairly small and easily controlled but a giant wouldn’t be...

So I’d really appreciate some advice from giant breed owners.
Good and bad.
Are problem behaviours like dog aggression, resource guarding and the like a known problem as with some other breeds?

Bearded Collie?

Ooops! Obviously hadn't refreshed for ages! Funny how we've both said Bearded Collies though.

I have two greyhounds that I walk regularly on lead, their combined weight is significantly more than me and they are pure muscle. They could easily drag me wherever they wanted but they've been trained to behave well on the lead (by their trainers, they're ex racers) so I don't have any bother. A bit of a tug back if they see a squirrel and that's it.

I think it depends on the breed whether you could handle a big dog or not.

My friend has 2 great Danes in a 2 bedroom house. One is definitely more sloppery than the other.
You have to feed them on built up feeding bowls , they can steel food easily from the work service as being on the same level.
Sadly they are also fairly short lived.

At Christmas me and dsis went for a stroll with our 2 dogs. We have a tiny 5.5 kg terrier. She has a labradoodle. He is lovely. He's not even that huge - but looks so next to mine! But OMG on lead sometimes he walks brilliantly but he wasn't then. He was pulling and trying to run and his strength!!!! I tried to hold him and I imagined any minute I'd go flying and get tugged along by his lead! He was such hard going and not a pleasant experience at all. Our tiny dog is fine on lead. He spends more time dragging behind me sniffing. But even if he wasn't I could feel completely in control without hurting myself. I also don't want a huge droolly dog in my house. They're ok to pat on walks but so don't want to live with one. Our little chap is the size of a cat. You can pop in the bath. Nearly in your pocket! He moves seamlessly between my house and my (older) parents. You barely notice when he pops on your knee. He just sort of melts on without you knowing. He also doesn't shed. The thought of living with a Saint Bernard. No no no!! The only time I'd be happy to see one would be if I were stuck lost up a snowy mountain and he was bringing me brandy

Tiny poos too!! 💩

The trouble with collies is that they can be nervy. Now of course well bred, well socialised, well adjusted individuals are far less likely to be nervy, but add in a reactive older dog and that is not a great combination.
I honestly dont think getting a second dog when you have a reactive dog already, however mild its reactivity is, is a good idea as a second dog will amplify the reactivity. If it were me I would want to put my time towards working on your existing dogs reactivity, not a puppy.

There is also issue of the two dogs playing in the house and garden, which can get very boisterous, and then everything in their path gets bowled over.
Even with two smaller dogs it can be like a tornado has gone through the house. I train all my dogs that play is for the garden only, but if you dont let your dogs play in the garden thats going to make things hard.

I will say that I do not agree that you aren`t able to have a nice house with giants, I have lots of antiques (furniture, lamps, vases) etc and they have managed to remain in perfect condition through my dogs, fosters, puppies and DC.
I also usually have fresh flowers in water on the coffee table (clearly I am a glutton for punishment), but our house is big and open plan enough that the dogs are taught not to go near the coffee table, so not accidents with tails or bouncing.

I also duct tape pool noodles around the legs of everything until the dogs have been taught not to chew furniture, and I have solid varnished wood floors throughout the whole house, so they are easy to clean.
We have a few acres fenced, and then unfenced forest, and the dogs have been taught that certain areas of the garden (my flower and vegetable beds) are off limits for play. I put very low dry stone wall ending around each of these off limits areas as its easier to teach them its off limits if they can see a boundary.

If I didnt need a Pyr as a working dog there is no way Id have a giant breed, not in a million years! I really don`t know why people want stubborn, hard to train dogs unless you need the breed for a specific task, I would much rather have a biddable dog.

In the future when I don`t need a working dog, I will have either Mini Poodles or Mini Schnauzers, both fabulous dogs, can hike for miles, amazing characters and temperaments, easily trainable as they love to please and just such a joy. PolePup is a cross between the two and he is such a delight as a puppy.

Rough collie

@Seekingasaintmaybe

Okay. Say we don’t go for a Saint. Does anyone have any recommendations for the following criteria:

• Medium to large size
• long coat
• As little drool as possible
• Has enough stamina to do minimum daily 8 mile walks
• Suitable for small house
• Typically have a friendly, gentle disposition
• No known potential major behavioural problems in the breed eg resource guarding in cockers and goldens, dog aggression in Staffs, stranger aggression in Pyrenees and so on and so on.

🤞🏻

Tollers Clumbers Poodles Rough or bearded collies Gordon setters Old English sheepdogs

Collies need a lot of exercise & if anything even more mental stimulation, they need a job. I grew up with working collies, hill farm, thousands of sheep.

am a very keen gardener.
The dog/s can run about, jump, dig etc on their walks. Not my garden.. They would be on a lead”

This concerns me. So in the middle of the night, pouring with rain, you’re going to pop a lead on to go outside several times with a pup that isn’t yet house trained? And then with an adult dog for the rest of its life during the day even if it can hold things through the night?

My dogs aren’t giants but still need room outside so our three fenced acres are divided into a flagged area with free access in all weathers, a couple of grassy fields they have access to in dry weather & my very much out of bounds “ pride & joy” garden behind stone walls. Having to take them outside in the garden on leads every time they wanted a pee would soon pall, speaking personally.

Also no car isn’t practical as far as vets+ big dogs are concerned. What will you do if one starts with bloat or a torsion( a real risk with big dogs) in the middle of the night? Neighbours won’t thank you, taxis won’t take sick large dogs, just let it suffer & die?
Sorry, you’re just not living in the real world. If I bred giants there’s no way I’d sell you a puppy given your circumstances.

Collies need a lot of exercise & if anything even more mental stimulation, they need a job. I grew up with working collies, hill farm, thousands of sheep.

OP has said she's going to be out walking for around 8 miles a day, and is at home the rest of the time - that sounds absolutely fine for any collie. Yes, they need exercise and stimulation but they really don't need several hours a day, every single day. Very few dogs (if any) genuinely need that much exercise.

If a giant breed wants to go somewhere or after something it will. Even your strong DH would be dragged along, off his feet or hurt. This is why training is paramount but is not always 100% with every dog. A harness can help to some extent, a lead and collar less so.

Giant breed here, although a close friend has a pack of different giant breeds, including a Saint. They mostly live outdoors, coming in one or two at a time. The same for walks - they get all the exercise they need on the land, with one or two at a time going for an occasional trip in the truck into town or for a swim. They have a pretty idyllic doggy lifestyle. They are all rescues. Some people take on a giant breed but then can't cope with the reality. There is 'a lot of dog to go wrong' if there are behaviour issues.

It's not damage to the home, more damage to the dog's tail, you need to worry about, especially in a small house - edges of walls and kitchen units etc. Food can easily be reached to steal, even at the back of the work surface. Ideally a bed will be about the size of a single mattress, if you have the floor space. Most car boots won't take a giant breed, especially lying down, which is needed for safety. A large estate, a car with the backseats down, or a van is needed really - and possibly a ramp. A giant dog left alone, even for half an hour, can destroy a whole sofa or disturb the whole local area with its howls. Any walks with stiles or narrow gates will not be your friend. The years between a young dog being developed enough to go on long walks and being young and fit enough because of a shorter lifespan go too quickly. Vet meds, food, equipment and insurance cost much more. Some holiday lets or kennels will not take giant breeds if that is your usual thing. Many other dogs, especially small dogs, react to giant breeds. Some people are frightened of them or, conversely, want to delay you on every walk to meet, greet and chat. On the subject of drool - wearing those PPE face shields we are seeing just now might be a good option with some giant breeds, including a Saint in a small house.

It can be very rewarding of course but it is a lifestyle choice and not for the fainthearted. Rose-tinted specs need to be firmly off beforehand.

To be fair @Darklane I always keep my pups on leads outside while toilet training, can be brutal but speeds the process up overall as easier to reward.

I really do think that dogs need space just to pootle about and be dogs, be it digging, racing around playing, whatever, but somewhere they can do that completely free of all cares, without being told not to go too far, to come back like you would if they were off lead on a walk.
If you won`t let them do that in your garden, where would they get the chance to do that?

It so much about having a small garden, but if you had a larger garden you could section off space for a dog zone, and still have your garden zone. With a small garden you can`t do that as easily. Space gives you more options.

There is always going to be something with every breed. Tbh, OP has disregarded Golden Retrievers with a simple two word "resource guarding" which I think it's massively unfair. You can debate the merits of all these fairly obscure or uncommon breeds all day long (I mean, ke

...an Otterhound? Lovely, but as rare as hen's teeth.

There is a reason why breeds like Goldens and Labradors are so popular. Our Golden Retriever boy was big and handsome with a beautiful coat, fantastic with children and gentle and kind. He loved long walks but was happy to chill out around the house. They are wonderful dogs.

A briard or a hovwart would fulfil your criteria. I'd love either but going down the rough collie route.

I had a beardie. They are fab. Can be lazy but will walk for miles. Ours didn't do fetch or was mouthy. Complete mud magnets though. Fab dogs.

Some one up thread said flat-coated retriever and I think that sounds perfect for you. Walking eight miles a day plus some fetching should keep them happy enough not to destroy your house. They do need string training to start.

My in laws have them, and their first was trained well and was a dream, but they've got gradually more lax and their current pup is a bit of a nightmare!

I think you're right that they can be prone to lumps, but they are quite often benign rather than cancerous afaik, and even then, they tend to get them at an age where most giant breeds would be on their last legs anyway.

Also the males are massive and fluffy from certain lines, a good deal bigger than the females.