Going round and round trying to figure out best breed for us (family dog)...

[CityDweller]

... and I'm hoping for some advice!

We're hoping to get a dog in the next year. Family of four. DC currently 7 & 5. Live semi-rurally. Plenty of space indoor and out. Someone at home nearly all the time. First-time dog-owners. We also have chickens. DC would also like guinea pigs in the near future.

Every time I think I've found 'the right' breed, I then read something that puts me off or we meet a dog that makes me re-think.

Requirements are:

• loving, gentle and friendly
• will bond with all of us (i.e. not a 'one-person dog),
• not prone to jumping up (or can easily be trained out of it as a pup)
• not too 'mad' or zoomy around the house (beyond the puppy phase)
• characterful and a properly 'doggy' dog (i.e. not a greyhound!)
• medium/large in size
• ideally not too smelly/ sheddy (although will compromise on this if dog fits the bill in all other ways)

These are the breeds on my short list, but they all seem to have various drawbacks that are making me pause:
Irish terrier
Irish setter
Golden retriever
Cocker or Springer spaniel (working)
Standard poodle

I also really love the look and sound of Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers (Tollers), but they seem impossible to find...

Any input on whether any of these breeds might suit us, or others worth considering, would be much appreciated!

@CityDweller

Yes *@Sulusu* - this is one of the things that initially put me off cockers and golden retrievers: reading about the resource guarding thing on here. That and the thing I've read about cockers often being a 'one-person-dog' (i.e. bonded to one particular member of the family).

I have heard similar things about golden retrievers too, hopefully other experienced members can advise you on that though.

see you mentioned goldens already sorry.

Our goldens are very well behaved with food and treats, they don’t try to steal from each other and they happily share all their toys. Although they don’t guard or fight over their toys, one can be a bit possessive over his treats. Our girl happily brings her treats to show off to everyone and will let you take it out of her mouth no problem. Our boy prefers to take his treats to his safe place (either a specific bush, or his mat) and will only give it to you in exchange for something else.

I don’t know if that helps at all!

It's funny as I thought Labrador when i read your initial post too!

I had Great Danes or Great Danes crosses for years and they were absolutely amazing dogs but you need to have the mindset for having a large breed and unfortunately they don't live very long lives. I don't know what Great Dane crosses are around but it might be worth looking into.

We have a working cocker and he has definitely bonded to one person though he is still absolutely delighted when he sees the other members of the family.

I often see these threads where people talk about spaniels being easy to train. I have to say it's not been my experience. All my time with large breeds I found them much easier because they are so food obsessed. This working cocker is smart and knows what he wants and once he gets a scent, he is v difficult to control and I think his training will be lifelong. Having said that, he is a gorgeous, soppy dog that loves nothing more than pleasing people and I can see why people love them as family pets. I wouldn't get one unless you're sure there will be someone at home.

Btw even though he's only 5 months - he could go all day in the field. Obviously we wouldn't let him but don't underestimate how much energy they have - far more than other larger dogs.

You mentioned this a few posts back OP but please don't get a foreign street rescue. It absolutely terrifies me that people are willing to take on completely unknown feral dogs, especially where there are children. If you are patient, the right rescue will come up, it does take time and persistence though and I appreciate how frustrating the blanket rules can be.

I have a sprocker rather than a cocker, but the cocker side is working not show.

He is fab. So merry and loving, hes definitely not a one person dog, he will go to wherever will dish him out some attention. He was a doddle to train commands to but you do need patience with things like recall and walking to heel as they love to follow their noses.

A lot of people say they need hours of walking but that's not particularly my experience. He will certainly go for as long as we let him but what really stimulated him is scent games or games of find it. Oh and fetch. We do a few of those a day as well as his walks and he is happy to potter around the house, snooze or sit with his chew the rest of the time.

I know I'm biased but if you have the time and patience I'd definitely recommend a spaniel. They steal your heart!

Pointer, pointer, pointer, pointer, pointer. I love pointers

@LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett

You mentioned this a few posts back OP but please don't get a foreign street rescue. It absolutely terrifies me that people are willing to take on completely unknown feral dogs, especially where there are children. If you are patient, the right rescue will come up, it does take time and persistence though and I appreciate how frustrating the blanket rules can be.

I have known 7 foreign street rescues (friends and family) very well, all excellent with children. No resource guarding either.

Meanwhile my neighbours 2k lockdown puppy is an aggressive little shite to children in particular.

Sounds like you should go for one of the smaller, working type labs.

Def not an irish setter!!!

Why do you not like labs?

The bouncy jumpy up thing is training, completely... and GRs are pretty hyper puppies as well.

They’re really very similar you know, labs and GRs. Very similar traits, same sort of length of time to mature.

I would argue that more important than the right breed is the right breeder (within reason). If there's no waitlist - don't do it! If they don't ask you lots of intrusive questions about you and your home - don't do it!

I don't think you've explicitly said how much walking and training your willing to do. A dog won't exercise itself in a garden. Jumping is entirely down to training. There are no breeds that are more jumpy than others. You don't want an active indoor dog past puppyhood but keep in mind most big breeds don't mature until they are 2 years old or later. I'd avoid anything that needs a job unless you're really up for it. A German Shepherd is a very bad choice as they need a job and they are a guarding breed. If I were you I'd go for the Golden Retriever.

If you want something different to look at try Greater Swiss Mountain Dogs. They are brilliant with kids and the females are no bigger than a big lab. They need exercise but not vast amounts. They have lovely temperaments with older children. They're too big and will knock down very little ones.

@tabulahrasa I don't know why I don't like labs! I've just never been drawn to them. I can't really explain it. Any more than why I do like, e.g. Irish setters. Good to know that bouncing/ jumping up is a training thing regardless of breed though.

@ProvisonalPaulina. Yes, absolutely re. the right breeder. This stage is about narrowing down suitable breeds, then we'll move on to finding suitable breeders. Don't worry - no impulse lockdown puppy purchasing going on! And I'm not considering a German Shepherd.

At the moment the short list is, I think, Irish terrier, golden retriever, standard poodle. I think I have to let go of setters, much as I love them - I just don't think it's the right dog for us now.

Re. exercise - we are under no impression that a dog will just 'exercise itself in a garden'! Not sure where that came from. We live semi-rurally, with loads of footpaths right on our doorstep and beaches and woods within 15 mins drive. That's one of the reasons I want to get a dog as I want an excuse to be out there everyday! So exercise isn't an issue...

And yes, the 'needing a job' thing is what made me rethink our initial idea of a working cocker or springer. Much as I really like those dogs, I question whether we'd provide the best home for one.

From what you say I don't think you're a suitable family for a working cocker at all. Maybe a show cocker. But all cockers are very energetic in terms of exercise, and can be impatient with children. They also can be the sort to pee with excitement. Mine doesn't thank God, and she is quiet when indoors but really doesn't love the kids much. I've heard the same from other people.

Sorry I didn't see where you'd mentioned exercise just a decent garden. I think I'd lose the Irish terrier if you want something that won't slaughter small animals. Terriers are fairly notorious killers.

I personally couldn't deal with all the faff and upkeep of poodle hair and how tangled it gets in the mud. Friends of ours have a poodle and she has to give it a proper bath every time they go for a countryside walk. I think a poodle in the muddy countryside would be a right pain in the backside. Something where the mud dries and then falls off is ideal.

That's interesting @ProvisonalPaulina re. poodle coat maintenance. I was aware they needed grooming/ clipping every 6 weeks or so, but hadn't realised that about mud, etc.
Does the mud fall off a golden retriever? I think it does, as I've noticed that with our friends dog. He'll be wallowing in muddy rivers on a walk and then seems to be miraculously relatively clean by the time we get home. And they are not the type of owners who towel off their dog before coming into the house!

And yes, I really do take what you say about Irish terriers. I have, however, been speaking to several owners who say that it's about good breeding and socialisation. If we were to get an Irish terrier I would be extremely selective about the breeder and I'm aware that means waiting a long time, as there aren't many of them...

In my experience mud comes off a Golden when it dries but you sometimes have to brush it out. Labs are easier from this point of view by miles. Poodle friends have resorted to putting the poodle in a coat a. Because the hair offers very little insulation once wet and b. It's less hassle as less if the dog is showing to turn into a tangled, matted mess. Dog hair is very different to dog fur.

@ProvisonalPaulina thanks that’s really helpful info. What’s your opinion on goldens and resource guarding? Only something I’ve become aware of from reading posts on here and is the only major question mark for me for this breed.

After a long muddy hike none of the poodles I have ever had have taken more than about fifteen minutes to brush/towel the mud off, no longer than my Great Pyrs or the Goldens I have fostered previously.

If you are brushing thoroughly every day (which you should with most dogs) tangles should never develop, and so they are easy to brush out after walks. I always check my dogs over very thoroughly for ticks/injuries after each walk, and I include that in the fifteen mins.

The poodles I have had take about five/ten minutes to brush each day, PoleDog (Pyr) takes half hour each day, much more if hes shedding. I do have to get the hairdryer out on PolePup (mini poodle cross) after hes been outside at the minute and blast him for a bit as the snow is much deeper than he is tall, and he gets cold fast as his fur is still very thin as he`s young.

I always wash all of my dogs paws after walks though, and then run a damp microfibre cloth over their bellys or any other especially muddy spots. I try to avoid mud in the house, that`s a recipe for parasites, especially when you have kids.

I have fostered a fair few of both, and I have never been keen on labs or goldens, they are pretty similar in basic character traits as PP says.

Can you tell I`m biased towards Poodles?

Irish terriers: I am fairly well acquainted with one. He had a fairly rocky start in life and was rehomed at about 18 months. He can be a bit barky if there's any hint of an imminent fracas (I don't doubt that he'd join in) but I've never seen him pick a fight with another dog (and I've walked a lot with him).

He has very little prey drive compared to my working-line gundogs. Some, yes - he'll chase a squirrel - but I've never known him kill anything (whereas our old terrier, proper working stock, did away with several rabbits in the course of her career).

He's a nice dog: sensible size, pleasant around people, not a pain on walks. You could learn to hand strip the coat yourself (it's not hard, just a bit time consuming)

Yes, all the goldens or labs I have ever fostered or known could not be trusted around guinea pigs or rabbits, that said, if they were raised from a pup with them and you picked the right individual temperament, maybe it would be ok?

Sorry, meant yes in agreement with GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman and prey drive in working line gundogs.

Another vote for shoe cocker , we got ours when our children were 8, 11 and 14 . They are all devoted to him and he to them . He is now 11 and still full of Beans, cheeky but biddable always ready for a cuddle or a fuss, happy with 40 mins walk or a lot more not disastrous if you have to miss a day .

They are not easy puppies , the cockerdile and zoomies stage is real but with good consistent handling they turn out fabulous family pets . We also have chickens and guinea pigs. He was not good with the mire nervy flappy chickens the braver ones who stare him out are fine. He has never killed one but he has chased , I would make sure you introduce properly right from the start.

A final point , all dogs are individual not just a breed .

Show cocker obviously

With regards to goldens and mud, it definitely does fall off however this will often be over your floor! I love and adore my two, and wouldn’t swap them for any other dog breed in the world, but all winter my house is covered in very fine mud dust that has fallen off them. The upside is that it is easy to hoover (the hair was more challenging and defeated our Dyson, get a Shark or a Miele).