Going round and round trying to figure out best breed for us (family dog)...

[CityDweller]

... and I'm hoping for some advice!

We're hoping to get a dog in the next year. Family of four. DC currently 7 & 5. Live semi-rurally. Plenty of space indoor and out. Someone at home nearly all the time. First-time dog-owners. We also have chickens. DC would also like guinea pigs in the near future.

Every time I think I've found 'the right' breed, I then read something that puts me off or we meet a dog that makes me re-think.

Requirements are:

• loving, gentle and friendly
• will bond with all of us (i.e. not a 'one-person dog),
• not prone to jumping up (or can easily be trained out of it as a pup)
• not too 'mad' or zoomy around the house (beyond the puppy phase)
• characterful and a properly 'doggy' dog (i.e. not a greyhound!)
• medium/large in size
• ideally not too smelly/ sheddy (although will compromise on this if dog fits the bill in all other ways)

These are the breeds on my short list, but they all seem to have various drawbacks that are making me pause:
Irish terrier
Irish setter
Golden retriever
Cocker or Springer spaniel (working)
Standard poodle

I also really love the look and sound of Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retrievers (Tollers), but they seem impossible to find...

Any input on whether any of these breeds might suit us, or others worth considering, would be much appreciated!

I can't personally advise as we have a pug who is a gorgeous family pet but doesn't fit your bill. My friend had a German shepherd who was the loveliest boy, the 2nd one they had was awful and luckily the children were older by then. It is so hard to decide isnt it.

It really is @PugInTheHouse! It varies so much dog-to-dog

Funnily enough a German Shepherd is one of the two dogs my DC have really fallen for. A family member has one, some sort of mix (rescue), but primarily GSD. She is the most amazing, gentle, intuitive dog. You feel like she’s looking into your soul when she looks at you. Quite amazing. If I could get a dog just like her I would. But I think she’s one of a kind. And I daren’t go for a GSD as our first dog as they seem better suited to more experienced dog owners.

My friends has their GSD from a puppy before they had children and brought their babies up with him. He was amazing, the toddlers even slept in the dogs bed for naps with him . To be fair their 2nd dog wasn't nasty or anything but always jumped up and always barked. Made him very tricky as they are so big.

We are first time dog owners as a family and pugpup is fabulous for us. Ds2 has additional needs and other than the normal puppy biting stage he is the perfect little addition for us. If our situation was different we would love a lab or golden retriever.

@midnightstar66 that’s very encouraging to hear about your neighbour’s IT. I have to say I’m really taken by them. And I have heard lots of great things about them. Plus I love how they look. I’m hoping to have a chat with a breeder this week to find out more and whether they think we’d make suitable owners.

@GeordieRacer yes, would certainly consider an English setter. They’re beautiful dogs! And also a Gordon. My hesitation with setters is the ‘loopy’ reputation and the shedding, which I hear is pretty epic. But they’re still high on my list.

Off point slightly, but @AlwaysLatte she’s beautiful!!

OP, I’d say a full size Australian Labradoodle would tick every single one of your boxes, including the not shedding bit. We have a cockapoo (effectively a mini version) and he’s amazing: super loving, easy to train, chilled, doesn’t shed, great fun, loves all of us immensely (& it’s returned!) but if we had more space (city dwellers) it would have been a labradoodle!

I have a Great Pyr (have always had GPs, but mine are working dogs and they are definitely not beginner dogs), I fostered dogs for a lot of years and we have a Mini Poodle cross pup now too.

Our pup is an absolute gem, I do not like the puppy stage at all (much, much prefer when they get to adulthood!), but it has been completely painless and just such a joy with him. He is unlike any pup I have ever had before, and such a character!

I would have a better look at standard poodles, I have fostered a lot of them and they are everything on your list, absolute people pleasers so very easy to train and generally happy, good natured dogs. Very gentle and kind with other animals and love children.
They can be prone to separation anxiety, so it would be something you need to focus on training from the start so that they don`t end up suffering from it. They can be groomed to look more normal too - the "teddy bear cut" is one of the more sensible looking ones!

Like a PP I am not keen on Staffies, or any of the "bully breeds" for that matter as family dogs. I am not in the UK and here Pitbulls are still legal too. Such a joy that . I am not classing Staffies as the same as Pitbulls before anyone mentions it and I get my head bitten off!

I agree with @PugInTheHouse too, Tollers are not usually beginner dogs - you get the occasional one who is a bit more biddable, but they are the exception. Lovely dogs though.

My friend's toller is gorgeous, has the most amazing eyes, very striking looking dog, very loving and playful, but there have been many tears over his behaviour, particularly early on. They are relatively experienced with animals but he is definitely hard work, they underestimated it all.

@Epwell Pic please... I love schnauzers

The thing is though if you wouldn’t have a staffy with children you shouldn’t have anything staffy sized or larger.

Thats a bit of a ridiculous statement isnt it? I have always had Great Pyrenees, they have been bred for centuries to protect small, vulnerable beings (lambs, goat kids, chickens etc) their instincts are absolutely honed to focus on the vulnerable family members and other pets and take care of them.

My Pyrs have never, ever so much as trod on one of my DCs toes, they are so careful around them.
They never run near them, jump up, push past them or do anything at all which could risk the most minor of injuries. Even as a pups they are always aware of their surroundings and never even mouthed the DC, I was fair game though . There are never zoomies with child skittles.
You would be very hard pushed to find a dog better with children.

Ok, tollers are off the list. They’re really hard to find, anyway!

@PoleToPole will look more at poodles. We’d definitely go for a natural cut, and the trouble is that all the info seems geared towards people who want to do the traditional poodle cuts! Also, I’m struggling to get DH excited about a poodle! I can’t remember what else was putting me off them, I think I’d read on here they can be expensive, in terms of feeding and vets bills/ insurance. And the separation anxiety. But they’re definitely still on the list!

Again though, I am definitely not suggesting Great Pyrs for your situation @CityDweller they are brilliant with children and pets but they certainly are not free of their flaws!

I wouldn’t describe Tollers as difficult, but they aren’t forgiving in the way that labs and goldens are. Wonderful dogs, but not a good first dog - especially with children. You could also be waiting years to get to the top of a waiting list.

Standard schnauzer or poodle sounds like a good bet for you. Leos are lovely family dogs, but if you’re remotely house proud then not a good fit.

How much exercise are you willing to commit to? Both physical and mental (games, obedience, agility etc.) A lot of working breeds are great when kept sufficiently “worked”, but badly behaved when under stimulated. Spaniels being a classic example.

@CityDweller Ive always groomed all my dogs and fosters myself, and poodles are very easy to trim if you just want to shorten their fur, there are loads of great YouTube how to videos, and the gear to trim yourself isnt expensive on Amazon.

All of the poodles I have known or fostered are smart as a whip and very steady tempered, absolutely amazing at agility if you want to do that, and they are often used as service dogs here instead of Labradors/Goldens as they are very intuitive and genuinely try to do what you want, it is very, very rare to find a naughty poodle.

IMHO I would say that they are the ideal first dog, even if you bodge the training a bit they will try relentlessly to work out what you want them to do, and they are very patient and don`t get frustrated. Plus they listen well to children too, not all breeds do, and it is really nice to have a dog the DC are able to train too.

I have never known them to be any more expensive on food, or vets bills/insurance than any other dog, but I`m not in the UK so may be a bit different there? My DH was not keen on poodles when we started fostering years back, they are hands down his favourite breed now.

Also, Poodles are very good at "fitting in" they seem to take pride in it. Every one I have every fostered (and PolePup) has loved our cats, my older dog and every other family member, and has just sort of slotted seamlessly and harmoniously into the family. They have been universally adored by my older dogs and our cats.

They can hike and run for miles, make brilliant agility dogs (they are so speedy and responsive!), but are happy lazing around too. Obviously they still need walking, all dogs do, but they really are quite unique in the way they fit in.

Not one of my dogs, but a poodle with a "normal" trim

Irish setters are wonderful family dogs . Sweet natured and fun . I have had them all my life along with Gordon setters . We show and bred both . They do both moult though . The Gordon’s are incredibly loyal and the Irish love everyone . Both are great friends for children . They would both need training and the Gordon’s are a Little quicker at that as with of the gun dog breeds you like early training with chickens would be a must

Soft coated wheaten terriers are fabulous dogs. Perhaps not always the brightest but a joy to be around. The downside is that their coats are quite high maintenance. They don't shed but they do need a lot of grooming. They are also dirt sponges.

What are you going to do if you purchase a puppy and it doesn’t turn out to meet your list of requirements?

CrispySock has a valid point. I think being too fussy can sometimes create more unnecessary obstacles.

@CrispySock and @blowinahoolie - I think I mean preferences rather than requirements. I don’t think there’s any harm in trying to find the best fit for our family? In fact, I think it makes a lot more sense to do loads of research and ask for first-hand experience rather than going for the ‘cute’ puppy or choosing based on how floppy their ears are (DC1’s driving criteria!).

So, when we get our dog we will/should know as much about the breed - warts and all. If we go for a golden, we’ll do so knowing they shed and prone to being mucky. Etc. I guess the real non-negotiable is temperament. If our dog ended up being aggressive towards the kids (eg biting them) then we’d have to re-home. But hopefully the way we’re approaching this means that we can mitigate any chance of that, as much as one ever can. That along with choosing the right breeder, Educating ourselves on puppy socialisation, taking seriously our responsibility to help our puppy learn how to be a member of the family/ community/ world, and so on and on.

Probably best getting out there and visit a few different breeders of your top three dog breeds then to make a start. It can take a while to find the right breeder, and one you are comfortable with.

I was fortunate enough to contact a breeder who had just sold one of her puppies to a local family near where I live and that family were okay with us going over to visit the puppy, ask questions, chat etc. All down to chance. Talking to real families and meeting the puppies or adult version too will be a huge deciding factor.

For you I would also say show type Cocker Spaniel.

We have a working line Springer pup who is right for us - she’s my girl, and our children are 11+ - very loving to all of us, very bright and trainable - also very bouncy and mouthy until mature, then will still be very bouncy! Needs lots of time and focus on her need for exercise and challenges.

My friends have a labradoodle and a cockapoo, and both are beautiful, fun, affectionate and great with her toddler granddaughter. The cockapoo is a bit more high energy, but she's younger. Very trainable and responsive, and happy natured.

For show cocker spaniels, bear in mind they can be prone to resource guarding. I have had 5 over the years and 2 of the 5 had resource guarding, with one of them it was severe. It can be very hard to manage resource guarding around kids. As a breed they have so many lovely qualities but the resource guarding is not one you can predict sadly.

Yes @Sulusu - this is one of the things that initially put me off cockers and golden retrievers: reading about the resource guarding thing on here. That and the thing I've read about cockers often being a 'one-person-dog' (i.e. bonded to one particular member of the family).