Furious.. Please tell me if I am in the wrong here

[HolyMolyMeOhMy]

Just been to the park with our 2 dogs who are always kept on their leads. They are well behaved dogs but one of them has always been very nervous and he doesn’t like being approached by other dogs or people, especially if they get right in his face, and reacts by barking and chewing on his lead. The other one is ok but can often give the impression that he wants to play with other dogs but then change his mind in a second and start yapping. For this reason they are both always kept close to us on their leads.
A large dog off its lead just approached us and tried to get close to the dogs, so we pulled them away. The dog wouldn’t go away so my DH asked the owners if they could get hold of it it. They eventually managed to call it away after several attempts. DH then says that it should be on a lead, to which the woman responds that the majority of the dogs in the park are also off lead. I tried to politely explain to her that our dogs don’t particularly like other dogs, to which she replied “that’s not our problem, socialise your dogs then”.
I was furious that she said this! She has no idea of the reasons why my dogs are like that and in my opinion she was the one in the wrong by letting her dog go off approaching other people’s dogs, especially when they’re on leads. Our dogs were under control. Am I right to be annoyed by this? I am not normally an angry person but she honestly made me furious by saying this!
I am also not of the opinion that the dog should necessarily have been on a lead (like my DH told her it should have been) but I would at least expect her to keep it away from other dogs who are on leads.

Unfortunately you can't train good recall without having them off the lead. Yes you can practice as much as you want at home, or in empty fields, but it can still be hit and miss when there are other dogs around.

Then put the dog on a long line, or just keep it on a lead. Why are so many dog owners convinced that they're entitled to just let their dog off wherever they fancy? If your dog doesn't come back, don't let it off! It's not bloody rocket science.

Call her a few names & move on.

Your dogs were on leads. She should have called hers away sooner & if they don't have good recall, (I agree with your DH) they should be on leads.

Your digs were with you, on leads, her opinion that they need to be 'socialised' is judgemental & frankly stupid.

Just ignore the stupid cow. And back your DH up, digs with shit recall need to be on leads!

(Speaking as one who had a dog that was only ever allowed off the lead on our very early morning walks on a deserted beach, because she was selectively deaf!)

Unfortunately you can't train good recall without having them off the lead. Yes you can practice as much as you want at home, or in empty fields, but it can still be hit and miss
This. I know a dog who is about as well-trained as it is possible for a dog to be (NOT one of mine!), and even she has been known to chase a hare and refuse to recall. There are also those moments when you bend down, poo bag in hand, in what was a lovely empty playing field, and don't even see the dog on a lead approaching.

A dog is not a robot, and with this in mind I regard it as mostly my responsibility to manage the interactions of my own barky old bloke with other dogs. He doesn't like strange dogs getting up in his grille and will snap and chase (all bark, no bite), so he goes on a lead where there are other dogs in close proximity and I avoid places which are likely to cause him stress (so he doesn't get taken to the pub, where you have high odds of other dogs being under other tables). If someone else's dog comes tearing up, I will only get pissy if either a) the other dog is a serial offender who its owners make no effort to train or b) the owner has a go at me for my dog barking and lunging when he would have been fine if they'd just controlled theirs. He also doesn't like bikes, so I almost never take him to a popular local walk where there is a cycle path, because even on lead he could easily intimidate a cyclist by barking. I would never take him there if I expected it to be busy with either bikes or other dogs: just not worth the stress for him or me.

In this case, I think there was wrong on both sides here. The other dog should have been under better control, but equally, I wouldn't take a pair of reactive yappy dogs to a busy park on a warm afternoon. Other dogs will be off-lead and it's a dead cert that, at best, one of them will be a pup in training whose owner has upped the distractions a bit too fast.

OP - you’re absolutely in the right. You can always tell the ones who don’t understand their responsibilities or think their dogs can do what they want. They’re the ones who get defensive (and would be the first to moan if their dog got bitten because they couldn’t control it). The decent ones whose dog is going off on one for once and whose recall is usually fine are the ones who are apologetic.

The problem is big dogs cover a much bigger distance when they get the chance to run around, so they might have very good recall but the owner has to be close enough to the dog so they can hear them.

I do what Borders does. I turn with my dog and quickly walk away
I feed, that seems the reasonable thing to do as ultimately, the other dog us doing nothing wrong. Many dogs are on the lead not because they are nervous but because they do t have any recall but they are very happy to have other dogs coming to them.

If you take your dogs in an area that is know for socialising dogs then you need to take responsibity and indeed, if you see a dog coming to you, turn around and go away, the dog will quickly get the message and find an I treated dog.

Your oh was totally out of place to tell the woman her dog should be on the lead. I would have responded to him as she did.

So according to some of the thinking on here, when my dog is off lead in the park playing with me and minding her own business, and, has happened in the past, two very large dogs rush up to her, circle her and rush at her over and over it's my fault because I haven't taught my dog to be okay with out of control dogs and so I shouldn't be taking her to the park in the first place.

When I called to the owner to call his dogs off and he couldn't because his dogs aren't trained and we could only get away from them by my calling my dog to me and walking her to the other side of the park, that it's acceptable that the dogs followed with ineffectual owner calling their names and being ignored.

I'm guessing some pp would say I shouldn't be taking my dog into the park if she and I don't like other off lead dogs approaching her and behaving like that towards her.

Dogs should be under their owners control. If and owner can't call their dogs back they should be on a lead.

There seems to be a body of opinion on mn that 'socialising' in the context of dog training, means learning to rough house with every other dog in the park; it doesn't.

@vanillandhoney

Unfortunately you can't train good recall without having them off the lead. Yes you can practice as much as you want at home, or in empty fields, but it can still be hit and miss when there are other dogs around.

Then put the dog on a long line, or just keep it on a lead. Why are so many dog owners convinced that they're entitled to just let their dog off wherever they fancy? If your dog doesn't come back, don't let it off! It's not bloody rocket science.

This exactly !

I feed, that seems the reasonable thing to do as ultimately, the other dog us doing nothing wrong
Please don’t.
Aside from the fact you may give the dog a tummy ache if it’s on a specific diet/has health issues you are basically teaching it that strangers carry treats and encouraging it to approach people in future.

If you take your dogs in an area that is know for socialising dogs then you need to take responsibity and indeed, if you see a dog coming to you, turn around and go away, the dog will quickly get the message
They really don’t!
I do this because I don’t want my dog to get upset enough to start showing aggression but a lot of the time far from understanding we don’t want to interact, they follow us!

I find it interesting that you used the term ‘socialising’, the vast majority of these dogs are incapable of reading other dogs body language.

I’ve had many a dog persist in jumping all over my dog while she’s lip curling and air snapping.

I’ve also had many a dog choose to follow my dog who has chosen to turn around and walk away from a dog on the path ahead this sending a very clear ‘I don’t want to interact with you’ signal.

I would define such behaviour as the very definition of poorly socialised myself.

I have ours off lead in the full knowledge that a dog is most likely to be bitten approaching a dog on-lead. I call him away from approaching dogs on leads and likewise if he's clipped on stand between him and approaching dogs to stop any issues.

In an ideal world all off lead dogs should be under control, not bother other dogs and have bullet proof recall. It’s just not like that though is it?

I have a slightly reactive dog. If I take him to the local park there will be many off lead dogs. Some will come and have a sniff and then recall others won’t. So I just don’t take him there. I don’t shout at the other owners to put their dogs on lead as I know full well it’s a bit of a free for all there.

I find an empty field, I put a long line on, we do training and basically avoid other dogs! Yes I’d love to be able to walk him through the park and along the river but I rarely do it!

The more I think about this the more I wonder why you were “furious” I mean that quite an over reaction when nothing terrible happened! It really was something and nothing wasn’t it?

It's a tough one. Yes off lead dogs shouldn't approach on lead dogs. But they do sometimes.

I have a dog reactive dog and I don't take him places where dogs are running off lead. He gets highly stressed. It's not fair on him. And it doesn't feel particularly fair to others to have to follow us round with their dogs on a lead too.

I take my other 2 to a place where all the dogs are mostly off lead and they run and play.

There's a man who goes there occasionally with what he describes as a very dog aggressive large breed dog. So then I have to put mine on the lead as I can't guarantee 100% my dodery old half deaf jrt won't wander up to say a friendly hello. Which is frustrating.

But he's got every right to walk his dog there too and I get this.

I am now incredibly rude to them. I just yell at them to call their dog away now. And then I shoo their dog away or grab it’s collar and point it back at it’s owner. Pisses me right off. And I’m sure that loads of people will tell me that it’s my fault when a dog bites me but quite frankly the bastard thing shouldn’t be off the lead at all if it bites. Obviously they are just trying to play but I don’t want their dog near me and my ON LEAD dog.

My dog is small, old, going blind and has dodgy hips. If some fucker of a Labrador comes and ‘plays’ with her then she is immediately crushed to the floor in pain. And no, my dog should not have to sacrifice her little pootles along the river because people are so incredibly entitled. PUT YOR DOG ON A LEAD. Feel free to let it off when you can’t see anyone but in busy places just walk it on a lead and practice recall at your own expense. Not that of my nervous dog. Or any nervous children for that matter. Grrrrr. Rant over.

Perhaps furious was a bit strong of a word and I am now over it several hours later. I just felt it was quite unfair of her to suggest the problem was my dogs not being properly socialised when it was clearly her dog causing the problem to start with. She has no idea why my dog’s don’t like being approached, they could have been attacked in the past for all she knew. I also don’t feel like it should have had to get to the point of us having to ask for her to take control of her dog when she could clearly see that we weren’t comfortable with it but did nothing.
I also don’t really see why I shouldn’t be able to walk my dogs in a park like everybody else if they aren’t causing anybody any harm if left alone. The majority of times this has happened in the past and I’ve explained they don’t like other dogs very much, the owner will apologise and remove their dog from the situation which is fine, I have no problem with that or with other dogs being off the lead in general.
Anyway, thanks for all your opinions but I think I’ve learnt my lesson not to put things like this on here in future obviously people have very different opinions on the subject.

I think unfortunately you have to accept that if you go to a park where dogs are running around freely then a few may approach yours. It’s not good dog etiquette but what can you do?

I want to walk my dog in the park too! But I can’t due to off lead dogs approaching him. I have to go to a random field!

I'm guessing some pp would say I shouldn't be taking my dog into the park if she and I don't like other off lead dogs approaching her and behaving like that towards her.
There's a world of difference between a dog running up for a friendly sniff and a dog, and dogs basically bullying another dog.

This was a park not a dog designated area so there would be children around too, so would people who think the OP is in the wrong answer differently if it had been a child that the dogs had run upto?

We were walking our dog the other day on open moorland. He was on lead as there was livestock about. He was mobbed by 6 large dogs off lead (our dog is quite small). He was cowering and I asked the owner to call them back but they just laughed and then half heartedly called them but they didn’t move. So their dogs were not under control which they need to be around livestock

People seem to massively misunderstand the meaning of socialising dogs. It isn’t teaching your dog to be Content to be harassed! It is teaching your dog to respond appropriately to situations that will occur regularly in their everyday life. That includes responding appropriately to dogs that don’t want to play!
OP you did nothing wrong, she was a dick.

I also don’t really see why I shouldn’t be able to walk my dogs in a park like everybody else if they aren’t causing anybody any harm if left alone
But it's not like everybody else because the majority of dogs are off leads. Why can't you accept that Thrissur is your nervous for, not the dog who is just bring friendly.

If you have an anxious child starting school and you are holding his hand in the playground. Would you tell of the mum of the kid who comes to yours and badger him with questions getting close? No because he'd be doing nothing wrong being in the playground. You'd wait for the mum to come and explain your child is anxious and this makes him more nervous and the mum would tell his child to move away.

Would you tell the mum that she should be holding her Don his hand at all time if he doesn't run right back to her when she calls in a playground because of your nervous child.

My dog is small and still a puppy. Happy most of the time with every dog unless it starts to bark. If he starts to get anxious, I just pick him up until the other dog goes. Problem solved with no issue. How hard is it to do?

dontdisturb there is a difference between slight anxious dog and a dog reactive dog. And how are people supposed to pick up a large fully grown dog. And lots of people will tell you that picking up a nervous dog can make their behaviour worse in the future although I do understand the reaction to do so.

I don't have a reactive dog but I really feel for any owner who does who has to manage their dog as well as other owners who don't 'get it'.

And lots of people will tell you that picking up a nervous dog can make their behaviour worse
It also encourages the loose dog to jump up

I've had to pick mine up before. All 4 stone of him. Someone let their little French bulldog run over and it was showing its teeth and growling at him.

Owner didn't seem to care and I didn't want it to get hurt when it decided it was going to bite his face. So I got it off him and then I had to pick him up 🤦‍♀️ this is when I decided fields in the middle of nowhere were my best bet from now on. Or late night walks when everyone else is asleep 😊

Some of the comments on here are horrible!

If a dog owner has a dog off lead, they should be able to recall their dog when requested on the first attempt, or that dog should not be off lead! It's dog walker etiquette to call back your off lead dog when they approach an on lead dog.

My dog doesn't react well to other dogs on walks. This is because he was used for breeding for the first four years of his life and had never been let out a shed. It's not a case or 'well you should socialise your dog then'.

I do my part by keeping my dog on a lead and keeping his attention with treats, but i expect other people do not let their own dogs clamber all over my dog when I ask them not to.

IMO you did nothing wrong and I stand with you 100%.

Really surprised at some of the replies on here. Basic etiquette is you don't let your dog run up to a dog on a lead. And your dog shouldn't be off lead if it has poor recall.

i dont think your husband should have pulled her up on the issue.
she was wrong but she believed she was right.