Did I buy a puppy farm pup?

[Caross]

Hi all. I am a bit concerned that I might of bought a puppy farm pup!!
I responded to an add for a specific breed of pup that I have been looking for, they are also really hard to get, very popular breed.
I thought all seemed well as I got sent a photo of mum and the testing results from the dad. Then I got videos and photos of my pup whenever I asked, in one or two videos I seen the rest of the litter. Although, the breeder allowed him to be picked up at 7 weeks 3 days old, which was unexpected.
We had to use a pet transportation service due to the current restrictions on travel so we weren’t able to pick him up. The breeder would of been allowed to bring him to us but said she wouldn’t so we had no choice but to hire someone to do it. Turns out that all the other pups had gone home a day or two before ours and he was the last one there.
Someone else contacted me on Instagram asking who I got my pup from. I gave them the information, they came back and said they decided not to go any further with our breeder as there was another litter due in 5 weeks and they suspected it could be a puppy farm.
I feel really foolish. I was under the impression that our pup was born from her family pet. I had no idea she had another dog, (or potentially the same poor dog) who is expecting another litter.
Another reason I thought it seemed really safe was that she has a very public dog walking and boarding business.
Does this sound suspicious to anyone else or could there be a innocent explanation?

I always encourage people to change the breed to ‘Labrador’ so that they get non-biased, helpful responses.
People can’t get past ‘it’s a crossbreed not a breed’ which is such a helpful reply

I’m excited to see your beautiful pup grow 😍

Usually when people are scammed and misled - by dodgy investment companies, say, or a chap who says he'll be round next week to re-tarmac your drive if you pay your £300 deposit now - other people are sympathetic. You might think Aunty Muriel was a bit clueless to get duped, but her drive is in a sorry state and her neighbour saw the bloke and he was ever so charming, polite and convincing. He even had some trade association logo on his truck...

But somehow dogs bring out the most horrendous self-righteousness and someone who said near the start of the thread that she 'feels terrible' for not being sufficiently cynical and stroppy gets a proper kicking.

It's not helpful, it's not kind, and it's not necessary.

I didn’t realise this community of dog lovers was THIS hostile and nasty
I hope not everyone.

There was a thread recently about the unwarranted savagery on this board and some people were saying, Oh, I'm on other dog forums and this is mild.

I thought, bloody hell, I'm on a breed page and three or four gundog training groups and they are nothing like the Doghouse: they are helpful and welcoming, nobody has a spasm if you say you have a sprocker rather than a pedigree (though somebody will probably point out that you can't trial it), if you've cocked up people are queuing up to offer advice to help you improve things and the sneery remarks are in a small minority.

It's a shame, because this board has a lot of knowledgeable and helpful people on it and can be very supportive and helpful. OP, I hope you feel you can come back here.

OP there was actually a thread on here last week about the unnecessary rudeness from posters, I was among a few that pointed out it wasn't helpful being rude as it makes people not bother to ask questions.
Yes you may not agree with how a puppy was bought, but the deal is done now and if an owner needs help they should be helped, not scolded.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Cross post Grumpy

OP, the council website should tell you how many bitches the licence is for, which will give you the best indicator of all of whether you’ve bought a farmed puppy.

Astonishing level of naïveté from a poster on this thread saying that licensed breeders are not the same as backyard breeders and all 8n the garden will be rosy and conditions top notch.

Before the Government cocked it up by demanding licences even for small breeders, I would always have said to avoid any licensed breeder you didn’t know personally and well like the plague. Those waters are muddied now.

Unfortunately, lockdown is making it even easier for those who decide they must have a puppy now to be taken in.

Also YY I'm on a few pages for my breed of dog and they are all also willing to help people out who have a cross breed not slam them for not having a pure bred

OP, the council website should tell you how many bitches the licence is for, which will give you the best indicator of all of whether you’ve bought a farmed puppy.

A puppy farm is not defined by having multiple bitches. A licensed breeder can have multiple bitched and be a perfectly respectable and responsible breeder with high welfare standards.

A puppy farm uses fake bitches and house as front for facilities churning out back to back litters from overbred bitches in poor conditions.

People think that you either have one bitch which you let sleep on your bed or you are a puppy farm. There is plenty in between.

Licenses are subject to extremely strict conditions which I have previously posted.

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman @Whitney168 not everyone has been hostile. There has been a lot of help and advice and I really appreciate that a lot.

Thanks @thatcarolebaskinbitch love the username!

A 'nice' family who are breeding their pet can also be totally unethical but may appear better on surface. My friend knew lady who bred their xpoo back to back for the extra cash (earning her keep), the sire was often local persons pet/cash cow with no thought to pairs conformation, temperament or genetic health tests to ensure the resulting puppies long term health or welfare in being selective with homing.

KC are just a registry body that allows breeding/health test results to be easily checked. Its assured breeder scheme is open to abuse so hasn't really made it simpler for buyers to do right. The breed clubs are better placed to advise on individual breeders, along with ability to research & meet at shows, but why its harder with crossbreeds.
It doesn't seem like many are trying to create new breeds with intention of formally being recognized as such in future, can only think of windhunds as one.

You could report to trading standards or council if selling isn't meeting license rules with regard to age, vaccinations

People saying that lockdown has made it difficult to tell whether the puppy is actually with its mum are right but it can still be done. My new puppy was delivered last week (after a wait since July for the bitch to come into season) by the breeder but she was constantly updating her Facebook page and the breed club’s Facebook page with pictures and videos of mum, dad, litter and her other dogs in what was clearly a family house and garden. In a lot of the earlier videos before mum got fed up you could see the puppies queueing up for - and accessing - the milk bar so it was definitely mum. Luckily colour patterns in the breed make dogs quite distinctive so I could also see that mum was who she was claimed to be. It felt very open and honest.

Scatty, I agree - it can be very hard for someone new to dog ownership to discriminate between someone breeding their family pet responsibly (no inbreeding, relevant health tests, temperament considered, etc) and someone who is just a chancer.

And yes, report to trading standards - that is a bloody good suggestion.

That sounds perfect and of course it’s what responsible breeders would do. The breed associations are also a good starting point for breeders but the desire for cross breeds means these are redundant for people like the op. Given the very high cost of these dogs, unscrupulous people move in and you simply get into difficulties. As the op discovered when she started the post but then it didn’t seem to bother her. Which was inevitable as she had paid £1200, had the dog and he seemed healthy. Let’s hope he stays that way.

@BubblesBuddy which breeds are dying out?
Our much loved 15 yo standard poodle died last year and we’re thinking about a pup for later this year. Full standard poodles are absolutely wonderful family dogs btw. A very misunderstood and badly used breed.

You actually got rather a bargain there OP. Cavapoos are now around 3k a pop on pets4homes. That is more than double what we paid less than a year ago for a home raised, health tested puppy (yes I saw her with her mum, actually watched her feeding). That would suggest that there are people profiteering and with these crossbreeds it is more likely. I don't think your breeder was profiteering from lockdown or she could have charged double or more and sadly, still sold the puppies.

This is a list of British and Irish breeds that are in danger of dying out - less than 300 pups are registered each year from these breeds. At some point low levels of breeding will restrict the genetic diversity of the breed.

www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/buying-a-dog/vulnerable-native-breeds/

BettyStover: the Kennel Club has a save the forgotten breeds campaign. Have a look at their web site. Over 30 breeds and some on the list are quite surprising. I’ve attached it. Apologies for overlaps. Hope this helps.

Find a fb page for your dog, op, then you can ask these questions to people who have the same dog as you without judgement.
I've got a standard KC breed and they should be fit, active dogs but unfortunately prone to health issues no matter how well their parents score in tests. It's still a bit of a gamble and you're scared to let them be dogs in case it triggers some problems. I think it's a proper shame.

@Caross

While a lot of people condemn you, I would like to offer you my sympathy I believe it can happen to anyone (inexperience, doubts, rushed decision-making, clever image manipulation by breeder and millions of other factors) and it is obvious that you really care about welfare of your new family member.

Regarding the pup,- if you want to put your mind at ease, you can do the following tests (consult your vet about these):
* anti-body test (titer testing) - this will let you know if the vaccination is up to date;
* allergy test - no breed is allergy free;
* DNA test - you will have full information about genetic make up of your pup, including possible diseases that might develop in the future.

You are obviously very stressed about the whole situation. I think the best thing to do is to contact RSPCA and ask them to identify if the breeder is dishonest or/and unethical. They are professionals in animal welfare and will advise you on further actions. This way you will have peace because you will know how to act/react/deal in the circumstances.

There are 222 KC breeds. They are not all likely to be unhealthy. It’s ridiculous to say this. Avoid the breeds where there are known issues. Who says these cross breeds are healthier? What is the evidence and research?

Any word from the vet OP? Fingers crossed all is well

Thanks BubblesBuddy and Capitalsunited - I'll work through those lists and do some research to see which one might be a good fit for our family. There are some gorgeous dogs on there- I'm also surprised they're classed as vulnerable.

I don't think cross breeds are healthier, but many breeds have problems associated with them which is why specific health tests are needed. We all acknowledge they are important. I've been lucky so far with mine.
My 3 mongrel rescues have been proper troopers though. No vets needed till well into old age.