Did I buy a puppy farm pup?

[Caross]

Hi all. I am a bit concerned that I might of bought a puppy farm pup!!
I responded to an add for a specific breed of pup that I have been looking for, they are also really hard to get, very popular breed.
I thought all seemed well as I got sent a photo of mum and the testing results from the dad. Then I got videos and photos of my pup whenever I asked, in one or two videos I seen the rest of the litter. Although, the breeder allowed him to be picked up at 7 weeks 3 days old, which was unexpected.
We had to use a pet transportation service due to the current restrictions on travel so we weren’t able to pick him up. The breeder would of been allowed to bring him to us but said she wouldn’t so we had no choice but to hire someone to do it. Turns out that all the other pups had gone home a day or two before ours and he was the last one there.
Someone else contacted me on Instagram asking who I got my pup from. I gave them the information, they came back and said they decided not to go any further with our breeder as there was another litter due in 5 weeks and they suspected it could be a puppy farm.
I feel really foolish. I was under the impression that our pup was born from her family pet. I had no idea she had another dog, (or potentially the same poor dog) who is expecting another litter.
Another reason I thought it seemed really safe was that she has a very public dog walking and boarding business.
Does this sound suspicious to anyone else or could there be a innocent explanation?

Hi all
OP - my comments on this thread are not meant to keep labouring the point to you more to share advice. However if anyone is planning to buy a puppy the best thing to do is buy it from someone who you get to know first - find out what else they do in the dog world - is it agility training showing / dog boarding as it will give you an idea of their levels of experience and indicate they have a genuine interest in dogs not just churning out puppies for cash. If they were a home breeder rather than a professional I’d want them to kennel club register the pups. Above all - make sure you meet the mum with the owner and the full litter in the place they live albeit over zoom etc if you need to buy a puppy during look down. The temperament of the mum is one good indicator of what your dog will grow up to become. Find out how many litters she’s had. When buying rather than rescuing a dog I’d always go for a kennel club registered puppy. There is a lot of info on kennel club and RSPCA. Genuine breeders will show an interest in you and should ask a series of basic questions to check your suitability to care for the puppy- about your living arrangements / time out of the house etc. Good breeders do not need to sell puppies to people unless they are satisfied the home is right as they’ll have waiting lists in lots of cases so it’s a red flag if they seem really eager for a sale and don’t check you out at all. It’s important to do a simple google search on the basic health conditions of the breed you are buying to check parents health records. Good breeders will not mind you ringing and asking lots of questions. In my experience vets do not make mistakes on medical certificates. First Vaccinations are done at 8 weeks - (can be slightly earlier but check why )and pups need these and microchips before they go to new homes no earlier than 8 weeks.

Out of interest how much did you pay?

@GreyGoose1980 thank you

@userxx I paid £1200

OP, I can't add much to what PP have said other than that you'll be much more aware of what to look for and what to avoid next time you get a puppy. Sort out the vaccination issue and give your puppy the best home you can.

I feel like it’s getting harder to spot irresponsible breeders. It’s so easy to look up the do’s and dont’s of puppy buying, the wrong person can easily look this up and cover their tracks as they will be prepared to have an answer to everything the buyer will ask.

The only sign prior to my pup coming home, was that he was coming home a little before the 8 week mark. I read up that some breeders were saying they have done this and seemed there was an innocent explanation. Or maybe I wanted to believe it was ok because we had already paid the deposit weeks and weeks before and been waiting for a long time.

Hopefully the vaccination situation gets sorted and all is well. As I said, if not, I will get to the bottom of it.

Also I’ve had dogs a long time but always sign up to puppy classes with a new pup so they can socialise with people they don’t know and learn to behave well outside the home in a controlled environment - kennel club do bronze to gold obedience training classes but local classes are often just as good if you don’t necessarily want to do obedience certificates. Also check out guidance for how much exercises your pup requires at each stage of puppyhood too. Sometimes you can do too much with various breeds too young thinking you are doing good when you may give them joint problems later on. I don’t mean to alarm people here, it’s just something dog breeders in my family mention to people and you can easily check it out with your breeder / vet.

Some really shitty comments on this thread. Spectacularly unhelpful since OP already has the puppy.

OP, it's happened, you'll see about the vaccs tomorrow. Like you said, then you can take the next right action.

I was worried after this thread that mine is coming from a puppy farm, because she currently has 2 litters and third on the way, but I've had a look and she's a 5* licensed breeder so that's made me feel loads better.

Thanks for the advice.

I did have cavalier spaniels in the house growing up, so I feel confident in what to look out for which their issues. Never had a poodle or a mix so will take all the advice we can get on how best to raise him.

I had sent photos of the vaccination card to my own vet. She called me back and I had a chat with her about what’s transpired. She isn’t happy with the vaccination card and the date on it but said he will get his 10 week vaccination regardless and she will scan him when he comes in to check the microchip matches up.

Will still see what conversation I am able to have with the breeders vet. Apparently they may not divulge too much information as it is the breeders data, but I will at least give them all the info I have and they can do what they want with it. I will inform the breeders council of everything too.

OP why did you not refuse to take the pup before 8 weeks? Did you see the pup with the mum? What was the explanation as to why vaccinated and leaving prior to 8 weeks?

The real problem is that you wanted a cross bred. If you had gone for a pedigree dog, you could have checked reputable breeders via the Kennel Club. These cross bred dogs are often bred by people who just want the money. The KC registered breeders might show and have a long track record in breeding. They are breeding puppies that have all the health checks carried out on the bitch and only use registered male stud dogs. They have a much greater interest is selling you a first class puppy that’s right for your family. As there are over 200 dog breeds registered with the KC, why people but these designer breeds is beyond me because it’s very open to abuse.

I’m afraid op, you didn’t do what you should have done because having a fashionable dog outweighed common sense.

@MiniChoc thank you. You’re right. I don’t pay any attention to it.

I know I tried my best to look out for red flags, I know I’m an honest person and want the best for my pup. I know that, if this does turn out to be a bad situation then I will do the absolute best thing for the pup and pass the info on to the relevant people to help prevent this happening to other people.

Irresponsible breeders are getting better at covering all bases when it comes to warning signs.

If id been able to go and see the property and dogs myself, I would of. The only reason I couldn’t was due to the restrictions and lockdown. The breeder had satisfactory alternatives (photos, videos etc) that the kennel club advised I should check for. The real concerns only showed once I got him home and seen the card.

Also.. there may (although seems a slim chance) still be a innocent explanation. So I wouldn’t name the breeder on here, incase she is a perfectly good breeder.

The health of dogs and irresponsible breeders and purchasers should be called out. I get the op was rightly concerned but all of this could have been avoided and it’s reasonable to explain how!

No perfectly good breeder would give you the wrong vac info and let you have a puppy before 8 weeks.

Gorgeous pup OP. Whats done is done, and he's part of your family now, and, yes, your right to have some concerns, but don't let it spoil your enjoyment of your new dog. You won't be the first person to get a puppy without doing all the checks, and you won't be the last. But lets face it, buying anything with 'poo' in the breed name was going to get you flamed on this board, whatever your question! I'm sure it will all work out fine.

OP a similar thing happened to me a few years ago.
Found a lovely pup by a breeder on pets4homes, regular contact etc. When we went to pick the puppy up and he gave us the address for a sports centre (we thought he was worried of giving his home address away) we got to the sports centre and he was in a car and told us to follow him, thought it was odd but carried on and he drove us to the middle of no where right to the farm so many pups and dogs in huge cages, it was horrific. We took the puppy because we thought of it as rescuing him but the whole thing was really horrible. We tried to report him to the police but have never had an update since so they're probably still farming.
Disgusting business but dont feel guilty, they're extremely clever.

@bubblesbuddy The breed is nothing to do with fashion.

Sorry but pets in general aren't actually even fashionable.

I wanted a cavalier King Charles spaniel. Unfortunately I cannot get one because my parents (who are at my home regularly and look after my kids) developed allergies to our cavaliers when we had them before, so I wanted to get a hypoallergenic dog. When I seen I could get a cavalier/poodle mix, I decided it was best for us.

Be annoyed about that if you want.

@TopDogs2019 thank you. We are absolutely enjoying him. He’s fitted in perfectly and so far is very happy and healthy. I’ll do everything I can to ensure that continues.

I did expect negative comments for purchasing the pup, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I didn’t realise the “poo” or “doodle” stigma though. It doesn’t bother me.

You’re right. I don’t pay any attention to it

That explains why you are exactly the kind of person who supports this end of the puppy trade. Maybe if you paid some attention you wouldn't have bought a puppy whose documents are questionable. Your judgement is whacked.

@EastMidsMumOf1 that’s awful. Sorry you had that experience. It would be very hard to walk away and leave a pup in those conditions. I know the advice is to walk away, but as you say, you reported it and still it is puppy farming, so if you had walked away (and multiples other walked away) what would of happened to the pups when they are left unsold in the farm?

I understand that the only way to stop it is to stop buying from them. Just a disgusting situation.

If this breeder doesn’t get validated by the vet tomorrow, I will report it.

@MiniChoc
I don’t think people expressing concern are doing so to be pointlessly nasty to OP after the milk has been spilt. They are doing so because this thread may help spread awareness / harm puppy farms. I agree with @Bubblesbuddy about cross breeds but if people are set on them then follow the advice posters have given to ensure as much as is possible that the breeder is operated ethically. Also make sure you read all paperwork etc related to your pup such as vaccination card before you actually take the pup home. It doesn’t actually take a detective to see through these puppy farms- they thrive from people who are inexperienced or those who don’t think. Ask to visit the litter at home more than once in person. Chat on the phone with the breeder a number of times. Ask to see pictures of previous litters. Ask to be put in contact with owners who have purchased pups from the breeder. All good breeders would be fine with this.

@BovaryX so you ignored all the comments where I explained that I researched the red flags, asked all the questions that I was advised to ask, got satisfactory answers, checked the documentation etc and you decided just to take a quote where I said I don’t pay attention to people who flame me for choosing a cavapoo... You strike me as someone who looks for and enjoys these kinds of heated conversations. I wonder if I had a look on other threads, how many you involve yourself in.

Dog is beautiful. However the vaccination card is a huge red flag in my opinion. Also not quite sure why you didn’t say “no” to having the pup before 8 weeks if this was previously agreed.

@Caross

You strike me as the kind of person who fails to do basic research to determine whether you are buying from a reputable breeder. You expect to get a pat on the back for funding puppy farms? You need to apply some critical thinking to your own behaviour. Instead of sniping at legitimate criticism.

Op - also I realised you haven’t confirmed that you saw the mum with the full litter and owner interacting in their home environment over Skype / zoom etc. Did you?
@EastMidsMumOf1 - did you not do the above? That’s how puppy farms continue!!

Yeah vaccination card definitely sounds dodgy at least. Hope you get some answers tomorrow.