Why are there so many wankers on this board?

[Ocre373]

They’re on every thread. I’ve never known a board like it. People come on asking for advice and you can guarantee within a couple of replies someone will jump on something in the OP, often something completely irrelevant to what is being asked. They’re judgemental, condescending, rude and often just plain nasty.

It’s happened to me time and time again and it’s stopped me asking for advice which is such a shame because there’s so many people on here with so much knowledge and experience.

It’s made this a horrible place to be.

I tried not to get sucked in, I promise

I know someone who would be classed as backyard breeder in MN. She is a SAHM, owns 3 girls and a relative has the stud dog that she bought and owns. She sells the puppies via internet and does not maintain the infamous waiting list. I also know, that her puppies are fit for purpose family pets. She spends hours socialising them, they are raised as family members. Her girls are loved pets and receive better care than many dogs that are kept for the show ring & breeding. But on here, all this is lost as she is only a money grabbing backyard breeder.

Not everyone wants a pedigree with excellent show lines, most people just want a pet (me included).

As long as the breeding dogs are health tested and well cared for, then breeding family pets (rarely and responsibly) is not an issue and it's important to not be so narrow minded.

That was my thread @fivedogstofeed

Glad you found it useful - there are some great links on it from several knowledgeable posters.

I created it in an effort to share information and because I'm aware that I get frustrated when I see the same issues arising again and again, and that frustration probably feeds into the 'lecturing' from some of us, especially on animal welfare or human safety issues. So I thought it might be useful to have a sticky thread covering all of those issues will reliable sources of info. Unfortunately MN have moved away from sticky threads on the boards but it's still searchable under 'Useful resources' posted by me in the doghouse.

“But what’s wrong with having more than one bitch?”

Well how many can people actually look after properly though?

Because you need twice as many bitches as litters unless you overbreed them... and some that are too young still and then the ones that are too old as well...

So for just 2 litters a year you’re potentially looking at 6+ bitches - that’s already a lot of time to look after them properly, but wouldn’t pay enough that it could actually be a full time job.

Generally family pets aren’t health tested.
Decent breeders don’t do it for the cash. Raising a litter and socialising puppies is very labour intensive. And no bitch should be having litter after litter. So either they have lots of bitches and not enough time or one bitch having too many litters.
For people who really care about breeding it isn’t about the money.
I was told by one that if I fancied having a litter to first go out and set fire to about five thousand pounds and then see how I felt. She was (mostly) joking. But done properly it costs lots of time and money. Few people have the skills, knowledge and time to do it well.
I know I don’t.

Christ @wolfiefan you are like a broken hypocritical record.

My biggest big bear in here is rescue dogs presented as the holy grail of dogowneship.
And of course all breeders are bad and greedy, unless they are actually approved by the NM elite dog owners.

“But on here, all this is lost as she is only a money grabbing backyard breeder.”

Not the words I’d use usually, but... if someone is on here asking about a breeder - it’s the internet, you give the advice that is the most likely to mean someone gets a healthy happy pet, there isn’t much room for nuance or personal judgement. You also kind of have to assume the person asking isn’t particularly knowledgeable or they wouldn’t be looking on here fur advice anyway.

Which does end up kind of leading to really black and white views.

Wolfiefan - if everyone would look at dog breeding with your blinkered view, then nobody but a select few would own a dog. You'd have to dip their paws in gold to justify the price.

No @Ylvamoon. Neither of my pups cost any more than any other wolfhound.
And it’s not about the money. Or it shouldn’t be.

@Ylvamoon ignore wolfiefan you will not break through her entrenched and biased views.

Wolfiefan - that's because there are so many more breeders out there that you would discard because: "Few people have the skills, knowledge and time to do it well. " (The thing is, raising puppies is not exactly quantum mechanics or space physics. These skills can be learned and passed on by the ones who want to know. )

But people who are just after the money don’t want or care to learn.

Agree with the OP. For some reason, nothing brings out people's inner nazi as the dog ownership threads.
Is it because the subject is dogs rather than people, so they don't feel the need to hold back?

Yeah I get sick of the same old rants and weirdness on this forum that I don’t come across in real life.
I particularly hate the way friendly sociable dogs are vilified, apparently the only dogs anyone can have are nervous reactive ones
Oh and the myth of “100% recall” don’t even get me started on that But apparently your puppy shouldn’t ever leave the house until they have this elusive quality!
The sheer lack of tolerance and empathy towards other dogs and their owners is just odd.

The thing is, raising puppies is not exactly quantum mechanics or space physics. These skills can be learned and passed on by the ones who want to know

Oh absolutely - pretty much anyone is capable of raising puppies. However selecting parents of the appropriate health and temperaments, testing them, providing vet care, properly socialising puppies and then finding them lifelong homes is a completely different scenario. And not one that generally generates money.

It's partly because raising puppies badly isn't quantum mechanics that behavioural referrals are on the increase, dog bites are increasing, and rescues are overflowing...

There's increasing research on the lifelong impacts poor puppy rearing environments have on dog behaviour.

I’m sure I’m a savage wanker.

Yes you are @Wolfiefan, and it's all over MN not just in here tbh.

One thing I know is that MN attitudes to dog ownership are just not reflected in real life. The insistence that the only decent way to obtain a dog is from a breeder with a two to three year waiting list, who is only breeding to improve the breed anyway and only letting you have a puppy as a massive favour is the thing I find most tiresome. Well that and "get a retired grey hound". Much of the advice given on here is unrealistic and puts off people who could be really good, responsible owners.

I used to be a dog walker and had my own dogs for over twenty years. I only ever met one person who obtained their dog this way and that was because he was a very rare and valuable breed and she really wanted one of that type. Everyone else just got a dog somehow according to their own situation and family requirements and nearly all the time it worked out just fine. The sneering at and shaming of tentative prospective dog owners from the self appointed Puppy Policy Makers is just nasty and it's the same faces over and over again. I wonder what they get out of it when I see it. Most people are perfectly capable of getting hold of a dog in an ethical way and caring for it and loving it as it should be once they get it. People are attacked on here for lack of knowledge when that's the reason they came here, to get advice they could act on. I hope this thread makes some of them think twice. Probably not though. I think they enjoy it far too much.

Where did I say it had to be a rare breed? or you had to go on a waiting list?
And again. It’s not about the situation of the people. It’s about the animals.
Jeez. What don’t people understand? If you’re buying a pet then you have a moral and ethical responsibility to do due diligence. That’s not just to ensure you get a healthy pup. It’s also about the welfare of the parents too.

I often get private messages from people who have been scared off their own threads but are keen to hear actual solutions and advice.
If someone already has the puppy, people piling on about how it’s probably doomed and they are solely responsible for the horrendous suffering of all bitches in puppy farms etc is not helpful.
Disguising it as ‘preventing one other person from making the same mistake’ is bullshit. They do it to feel superior.

Oh and the myth of “100% recall” don’t even get me started on that But apparently your puppy shouldn’t ever leave the house until they have this elusive quality!

Oh so true! WhenI was a dog walker I used to tell my anxious owners that no one has a dog that is "bomb proof" no matter what they might claim. Every dog has the potential to go off reservation and anyone who says otherwise is a massive fibber. That anxiety used to make me so sad. All those dog owners not enjoying their dogs because of some ridiculous standard that they been told they should be reaching and if they don't then they're shit owners who have ruined their dog.

To be fair @Wolfiefan you bring up waiting lists a lot.

I think this is definetly one of the friendlier boards, I posted about collecting my pup, which I'm sure I'd have gotten flamed for on abiu, so a big thanks from me to the posters on here!

No. I’ve never been on a waiting list and neither of my breeders use them. What I have said is that If a breeder instantly has lots of puppies available then I would run a mile. Tends to suggest over breeding.
But some do keep lists.
The issue is with people who say we want a pup this month. It doesn’t work like that. Or shouldn’t. Bitches have a couple of seasons a year, may not actually fall pregnant after mating and puppies can be lost or numbers wrong on scans.

The issues around puppies that I generally see tend to be started by people getting defensive over the 'research' they've done rather than accepting some hard truths about how easy it is to get sucked in by unethical breeders that care more about the cash than the dogs, or well meaning but pretty clueless breeders that might be doing more harm than good. It's a total minefield out there and IMO it's better that some people are put off buying potentially farmed puppies or certain breeds they might not manage so they can take the time to look properly, rather than being told 'it's ok hun u get ur pup xx' and paying into a horrific industry despite the massive red flags waving all over the place. Buying a puppy should be hard. You're bringing home responsibility for potentially the next decade and a half. It should never be something so easy that you can decide to do in the morning and then bring it home that afternoon or even that week.

I don't think it's 'anti cross breed', so much as 'anti buying cross breeds just because they're cute and hypoallergenic and then insisting that all of them are the same' despite there being no breed standard to help inform people. Pointing out a cockerpoo might come with (completely allergenic) cocker-like fur that sheds but also matts like a poodle's, a highly strung personality and increased sensitivity to stress (and you won't know until you've bought it) isn't being anti-crosses so much as highlighting issues a lot of people haven't considered because they consider a cockerpoo a 'breed' with a degree of standardisation. That's why posters get so vocal about the word 'breed' being used. It's not snobbery, it's just pointing out the word has a specific meaning in this context and misuse helps spread misinformation.

The focus is always on finding a genuinely well cared for, fully health tested puppy that comes from carefully matched parents (if you're getting a puppy) regardless of whether it's KC or cross. It's just harder to do that when a particular breed or cross is the current trend so there's multiple 'reputable breeders' on Pets4Homes and Gumtree selling pups 'ready to go now' in a single area.

It's not a perfect board and the tone can sometimes use some work, but that's the same on any board where it's evident someone hasn't done any reading/applied any common sense to the topic. It's better than constant validation of bad decisions.