Justdogz

[NotEnoughTime]

Hi

Having read many stories on here re Puppy Farms I want to make 100% sure that I don't buy from these &^$%%&

I have found a website called Justdogz that I'm hoping to buy a Cockapoo puppy from (I know there are lots of people who don't think these are "proper" dogs but these are the breed we have decided on for our first family pet for various reasons). It looks legit to me but I don't have any experience in buying a puppy so would any of you experienced "doghouse" MN'ers have a look at their website/facebook page for me please? They also sell other breeds as well as Cockapoos and I'm sure someone told me once that this is a big no-no (though I have no idea why).

I would be really grateful for your advice.

Many thanks.

NET

People who are serious about breeding and are reputable don’t have different breeds. They are puppy farmers.
TBH cockapoo puppies are going to come from a puppy farmer unless you get a rescue.
Pick an actual breed.

Sounds like a puppy farmer. I'm sure there are some genuine Cocerpoo breeders who care about the crossbreed and do all the appropriate health checks, but they are a needle in a hay stack to find and you're far more likely to be stung by a puppy farmer or a "back yard breeder" only making those puppies because people pay ridiculous amounts of money for them.

There are also more and more Cockerpoos ending up in rescue, from litters of unsold puppies to older dogs, with a range of health problems and temperament issues. Remember it's a cross between a high energy breed and a very intelligent breed.

What led you to Cockerpoos as the breed for your family? I would bet there is either a rescue dog that would fit the bill, or a genuine KC registered breed that would also.

Thanks for your reply Wolfiefan.

Maybe I'm using the wrong expression when I say I don't want to buy from a Puppy Farmer. What I mean is I don't want to buy from someone who hasn't looked after the Mum (Bitch) properly and made her have multiple litters in a short space of time, kept her and the pups in cramped conditions, not walked or socialised them etc.

I want to buy from an animal lover who has got the dog's best interests at heart not just wanting to make a fast buck. If the pup has been well cared for, had their jabs, been wormed etc etc then I don't see the problem with buying from someone who makes a legitimate living but happy to be corrected if I'm wrong. I hope I have made sense.

Thanks.

NET

Puppies shouldn’t be a business. To breed often enough to make a living a breeder has to be breeding lots of litters from multiple bitches. Bitches are bred from repeatedly and there’s no way they can care for that many dogs properly.
I am an animal lover. I won’t breed from my bitch because to do it properly takes time and knowledge I simply don’t have. Health tests and looking for the right mate. It’s not simple.
Pick an actual breed and contact the breed club.

I would say you want a puppy from a home rather than a kennel? This looks like puppy farming to me. It doesn’t look like mum is a family dog, but rather they have dogs which are purely there to be bred from. Sounds pretty grim.

A good KC assured breeder won't make a living out of their dogs, with all the health tests, vet checks, feeding bills, they'll more likely make a loss and only have maybe 1-2 litters a year. If someone has a load of dogs and is churning out puppies left right and centre with minimal tests and vet checks - that's a farmer and that's the only way they make a profit.

I would always be wary of anyone advertising puppies for sale full stop. Most good reputable breeders won't breed if they don't already have a waiting list for puppies from properly home-checked people. A good breeder wants to build a relationship with the buyers they're selling to.

A good breeder won’t have 1-2 litters a year. Bitches may only have two seasons a year.

[Disclaimer: Am bunnygeek, not dog geek ;)]

Hi bunnygeek

Thanks also for your reply.

I don't want a rescue dog (was bitten badly as a child by one) so that has put me off. I'm sorry if that sounds horrible.

I'm also allergic to many dogs but have a few friends with dogs that I haven't been allergic to and they have all been Cockerpoos(!) which is one of the reasons we thought this breed would suit us.

Their website states the dad is PRA clear, they are licensed by the local council, micro chipped and vet checked (I presume they would have to give me papers/certificates to show this). It also states that the Mum and Dad can be seen (which I'm told is a good thing?)

Thanks.

NET

I think they look like a commercial breeder, I'd be concerned about how much socialization the puppy will have had being raised in kennels rather than in a house with the usual household noises.

One issue wuth buying a crossbreed is that you don't know how often the bitch would have had litters as the puppies won't be KC registered. If you're buying a pedigree puppy with papers from a genuine breeder then the bitch is a lot less likely to have been bred from back to back.

There are lots of underhand people out there, you want to make sure your puppy is happy, healthy and well socialised.

They’re farming - commercially driven and for profit.
You need a breeder or breed-specific rescue where the mother is kept in the home

Licensed doesn’t mean not puppy farmers.
There are more tests that need to be done.
They aren’t a breed. You don’t know what fur they will have and many people are allergic to the dander not fur. No guarantee you won’t be allergic.
Mum and dad together isn’t good.
Vet check means very little.
Microchipping is a legal requirement.
It’s a puppy farm.

By the sheer nature of a Cockerpoo being a crossbreed, there's no guarantee that you'll be allergy free from the particular puppy as it's as much likely to inherit Spaniel coat as it is Poodle.

Here's a list of KC registered breeds that are low or no shedding breeds.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/finding-the-right-dog/non-shedding-breeds-of-dog/

With rescue dogs, they were all puppies once too, indeed plenty of rescues do actually have puppies. Not all rescue dogs are savage beasts and a dog from a breeder could just as easily miss a key training phase and end up biting or nipping. And puppies by their nature will nippy for the first few months [see: all the other puppy blues and puppy biting threads on MN].

Dear fucking god.
They have multiple litters of different breeds.
They are looking to ditch adult dogs after they’ve had multiple litters.
Bloody awful.

Thank you all very much.

I'm just so confused. I have tried to do it the "right" way ie they belong to the CCGB group which surely counts for something?

NET

No. Nothing.
Choose an actual breed and approach the breed club. Perhaps you could visit All About Dogs at Crufts to meet different breeds? Try some breed surveys.
Never shop online.

Anyone can create a "approved" breeder group and wack a fancy name on the front, there's very little way through that minefield.

I would go back and assess exactly why you want a Cockerpoo, if it's based mainly on allergies, go to All About Dogs at Crufts and meet some of the KC registered breeds who are also good for allergy sufferers. If you can go via the KC Assured scheme and breed clubs, while it's still not perfect, you're more likely to find a decent breeder.
www.thekennelclub.org.uk/getting-a-dog-or-puppy/finding-the-right-dog/non-shedding-breeds-of-dog/

Also think about grooming and exercise requirements.

Also with a farm that has multiple dogs and bitches available, there's no guarantee the bitch and dog you see will be the puppies actual parents. I've seen breeders bring out the same bitch for multiple litters because one of the mums is in poor condition/is sick/has died and they don't want to lose the sale, so they bring out their best bitch and dog and say that's the parents. Because cockerpoos aren't registered you don't even have the KC certificate to confirm the names of the parents. Don't buy from anywhere that has multiple litters at the same time.

Multiple breeds is bad because each breed requires a specialist knowledge in order to breed well. Different tests, different confirmation, different risks. It's important to understand the breed well and the requirements for a good match and good puppies before starting. A good breeder will seek a mentor from the experienced breeders of their chosen breed. When a place has three, four, five etc breeds at the same time, there's no way they can put the time into learning all this for every breed. They are normally just buying a breeding pair of the latest popular breed to entice more people in, clear sign of a puppy farm.

Right, back to square one.

I'm so glad I posted on here. Thanks again everyone.

NET

Justdogz claim to have their puppies socialised with small children - yeah right...with that many dogs, how exactly?
These people tell you what you want to hear, and let you see what they think you want to see.

Don't be taken in by 'licenced breeder'. You only need a licence if you have a lot of dogs. The requirements vary according to the council area, but it's common to have a licence for 50+ or even 100+ dogs. Is that the environment you want your puppy to come from? :(

FWIW many, many puppies are born in rescue or come to rescue at 6-8 weeks. I have three such pups in my house now. A rescue local to me this morning also has two bichon x pups up for rehoming at 14 weeks.

If you have allergies you would be much better off going for something like an actual poodle from a reputable breeder . Poodles are fabulous dogs in their own right .

Yes a poodle is a lovely dog, three different sizes and you don't need to have the pom pom haircut.
Miniature schnauzers are also lovely dogs.

My beautiful cocker spaniel girl came (free of charge FWIW) as an ex breeding adult) from a similar set up and while she wasn’t badly treated and was well fed, well vetted etc it breaks my heart that she didn’t get the human interaction she so craves.

You will be a very good and caring owner OP, good luck.

We have just got a miniature schnauzer and she is wonderful.