Dog Walking Rage

[Ickyockycocky]

My dog is a bit nervous, especially when she's crouching for a poo. I think she feels a bit vulnerable. Anyway, today she was on the lead and happily doing a poo when two dogs came up and started sniffing her bum and generally milling around her rear end.

I started saying shoo, go away etc., but one of them was determined and was on the verge of stepping in the pile. I used my foot to protect the dog from stepping in the poo, I'm not sure if there was any contact but if so, it was the dog pushing against my foot.

Anyway, the dog's owner shouted at me aggressively, telling me not to kick his dog. I can't see any way he could have thought that I had kicked his dog. So I calmly said "I didn't kick your dog". He replied that his dogs were only sniffing because that's what dogs do, you silly woman".

I lost it a bit and told him that "actually my dog was having a shit, you silly man". He shouted at me again and I told him he should keep his "fucking dogs under control".

I'm not happy about having dog rage but honestly what type of idiot allows their two dogs to get right up the bum of another dog having a poo?

What would you have done in similar circumstances?

purple You say you train guide dogs for the blind and hearing assistance dogs, you must be the highest level of dog trainer there can possibly be in the country yet you have no comprehension that a dog may have its own personality and temperament, unbelievable!

Who do you think fosters and trains service puppies? These puppies are fostered to suss our those who can cut it to be service dogs and those who are a bit —dim— boisterous. The owner gives the puppy its overall personality. See the difference between an owner who spends all his/her time training and being with their puppy constantly for the first year of its life to those who have a puppy as hoc and g out to work with the puppy being crated for 10 hours a day and it’s owner being too tired/ committed to family commitments to be able to spend time with their puppy let alone train it. Before they know it puppy is 6 months old, just about full size and hasn’t a clue what his name is ... never mind recall. Owner finds dog too much to handle and inevitably the dog is handed into kennels where foster carers (if the dog is lucky) keep the dog for a while, find its personality and train it before it goes to its “forever home”.

Whoever said her brother in law would disagree why don’t you ask him exactly what he meant by dogs having different personalities. Of course they do. But NO puppy is evil. They may not be suitable to be a service dog but they will certainly be suitable for a family dog - provided the family has the time and patience to teach it the basics!

Dogs are representative of the care and training it has received from its owners from puppyhood.

Purple you are ignoring the rest of the early stage experiences that also impact on a dog's temperament. In the first 12 weeks alone - usually before an owner can decide to engage with or ignore their dog - you have so much potential. An owner is not always the cause of problems because they usually don't get their dogs until the fundamental socialisation stages have passed. Basing a dog's behaviour purely on the owner is ridiculous.

Russell massive high five haha, it's nice to meet a fellow ninja! The info i got from them, and the acceptance of having a nightmare time walking was incredible. It made getting my second reactive dog a lot easier!!

Here you go... case in point. I have just got home and logged into my dog walking group.... this puppy is 8 months old.

Only advice I can give is stay home and stop him chewing FFS!!

Purple you have plainly never had a rescue dog so it is understandable that you are so clueless in that regard. It is very different to training a lovely lab specifically bred for a good temperament. But people who take on the damaged dogs deserve respect and support, not faux naive remarks on 'I don't know why your dog is so anxious'.

The owner gives the puppy its overall personality

An owner can help influence the puppies experiences but saying it gets its personality from the owner is like saying a child gets its personality from its parents. Be interesting to hear whether owners with multiple dogs from a puppy say they have the same personality?

My friend carries a water bottle to give her dog a drink but it also comes in very handy when a dog won't leave hers alone.

So hang on Purple what you're saying is unless a person can 'stay home' they are contributing to a dog's behaviour?? That's absolute crap, sorry. Staying home with your dog all day can actually increase things such as anxiety & chewing because the dog isn't used to being alone!! A well rounded dog can be left at home. Some dogs chew...it's up to the owner to put things in place to prevent this but staying home isn't the answer!!

The owner gives the puppy its overall personality

Yup, clueless. Give the same owner, for example a collie and a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel puppy and I will guarantee those dogs have very different personalities, even with the same owner. Do you only deal with labs?

Bitey my parents got two cockers at 8 weeks from the same breeder. Same upbringing, same exercise/feeding routine etc. Both have very different personalities, especially when it comes to other dogs.

Oddly, both were left during the day as my folks worked...neither has chewed a thing in their lives other than the chews they are given 🤔

The 'bouncy' dogs aren't aggressive though?

Another reason there are so many nervous dogs is people like this who say that a dog jumping on and scaring an innocent dog minding its own business isn't aggressive. Like that makes it ok. Would you say the same about a person running full pelt at you screaming "hello" with hands outstretched to hug you, knocking you to the ground then cuddling you or rough housing you? After all the person wasn't doing it to be aggressive.

Dogs that run full pelt at another and proceed to jump all over another dog are rude and terrifying to most other dogs. If any dog is so badly socialised that it does this then they are the out of control dog who has no social skills, not the victim who is being pounced all over and understandably frightened.

mustbemad17 thanks for confirming what I had suspected but couldn't say as I have no first hand experience of multiple dogs.

Someone on the dog reactive page once posted a really hilarious - but valuable - post. His dog wore a coat saying he needed space, was also on lead etc, & he got fed up of other walkers ignoring it & letting their dogs 'play' with his, causing anxiety. One day it happened he handed the lead to his wife & proceeded to run rings around one particularly annoying owner, waving his hands & screaming 'its okay, i won't hurt you, i want to play' repeatedly. It terrified the other owner!! It's maybe an extreme length to go to, but i bet it made a point!

Just come across this useful FB post from a good local trainer:

www.facebook.com/pg/socialpawscheltenham/posts/?ref=page_internal

The behaviourist who wrote it is also holding a live Facebook Q&A about this topic tomorrow eve. I don't know her personally but she seems very experienced, uses 100% positive/reward based methods and comes highly recommended.

I have an on-lead reactive dog (yes a rescue with no socialisation in early years) and this gives me the rage too. Especially when the owners get upset when my dog tells theirs to bugger off in no uncertain terms. It is upsetting to be involved in and sets all our careful training way back. I HATE being the 'rude' lady telling people to keep their damn dog away. And then they always react as though you are in the wrong because you have a 'vicious' dog. Rather than seeing that you are actually the responsible one who is trying to keep everyone safe
I am definitely going to drop in tomorrow to see if I can get any tips on how to handle this better!

It feels like purple is having a different conversation than the one that is actually happening on this thread. purple no-one is saying training doesn’t affect behaviour. What people are saying is that personality also has an impact. As do influences outside of the owners control. (Off lead dogs attacking it for example! That leaves an impact on a dog no matter how well trained they are.) I’m not sure how you aren’t getting that.

So in other words @PurpleTango you are NOT a Guide Dog trainer, you are a guide dog puppy walker - there is a BIG fucking difference.

I’m completely baffled as to how someone can have had more than one dog and yet thinks all dogs have the same personality. We’re they real dogs? Not cuddly toys?

Purple i know a guide dog puppy walker. This lady & her mum are dedicated walkers, they literally expose their dogs to everything & deal with any issues immediately. They have i think 6 qualified guide dogs under their belts now? Yet their last dog & the one they have now - despite having exactly the same experiences from 7 weeks - have been deemed not fit for work & have/will be rehomed as family pets.

If a dog's behaviour was firmly based on it's owner, surely the dedicated puppy walkers would produce puppies that are suitable for further training each & every time?

The owner gives the puppy its overall personality.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

That was a joke - right?

Puppy's main personality comes from its DNA (so breeding) and it's newborn experiences (and those of it being in the womb) and their mothers temperament and experiences (after all their most formative weeks are spent learning from her). It's important owners socialise but it won't magically fix the traits, personality, and experiences named above.

You claim to have all this experience with dogs but you seem to think animals are robots to be programmed and only if you're too lazy to program them properly can there be a difference in personality. If this was the case then it wouldn't be possible to get "failed" guide dogs, police dogs, police horses, etc but in reality we many bred for that purpose fail to make the grade - even though they have some of the best possible early socialisation, are only bred from mother's with the right temperaments and come from lines bred for that purpose (so have genetic advantage).

Also if breed doesn't change anything why do the police and guide dogs use fairly specific breeds for the various roles. Surely any breed of the right size can be substituted in if the personality is solely down to the owner?

Same as Must, one of the (many) puppy walkers I know has trained multiple dogs. Of the last three to leave them one graduated, one was withdrawn and the most recent went into the breeding program.
Same experience, different outcomes.

@PurpleTango that was me. And frankly you're talking rubbish now. Because I've done EVERY SINGLE THIBG YOU HAVE STATED that will avoid reactiveness in dogs. I work from home. She is exercised twice a day. I trained her the minute she came home and she a fantastic, loyal obedient pet. SHE JUST DOESN'T LIKE TO BE CHASED.

Sorry all but purple tango's smug sanctimonious comments are starting to get my blood pressure up.

I'm beyond baffled at the idea that dog owners have to stay at home. Jesus there must be a lot of neglectful owners in the UK if that's the case!!

Swimming Guide Dogs largely use certain breeds, but they match the blind version to the best dog regardless of breed. Not seen it myself, but I am reliably informed by a friend who works at the main Scottish centre that a Border Collie has been used in the past.

Purple my current three are related, the youngest two I've had from birth. Both pups exposed to the exact same environments but one is outgoing and the other isn't. Only major difference is she was attacked at 12 weeks and he wasn't. It's definitely not as simple as "train your dog" (for the record the shy one is the better trained, she listens more).

*person

My reactive dog doesn't suffer separation anxiety so that's not even a helpful fb screenshot.

It's like comparing someone with depression to someone with a broken leg. Completely different diagnoses

Purple you have plainly never had a rescue dog so it is understandable that you are so clueless in that regard. It is very different to training a lovely lab specifically bred for a good temperament. But people who take on the damaged dogs deserve respect and support, not faux naive remarks on 'I don't know why your dog is so anxious'.

If you read the thread I have already made provision for “Rescue Dogs”. Sadly there are too many “Rescue Dogs” that everyone else has to make provision for. Both my dogs are “Rescue Dogs”. I’m sure you know best... 😂😂😂