Dog Walking Rage

[Ickyockycocky]

My dog is a bit nervous, especially when she's crouching for a poo. I think she feels a bit vulnerable. Anyway, today she was on the lead and happily doing a poo when two dogs came up and started sniffing her bum and generally milling around her rear end.

I started saying shoo, go away etc., but one of them was determined and was on the verge of stepping in the pile. I used my foot to protect the dog from stepping in the poo, I'm not sure if there was any contact but if so, it was the dog pushing against my foot.

Anyway, the dog's owner shouted at me aggressively, telling me not to kick his dog. I can't see any way he could have thought that I had kicked his dog. So I calmly said "I didn't kick your dog". He replied that his dogs were only sniffing because that's what dogs do, you silly woman".

I lost it a bit and told him that "actually my dog was having a shit, you silly man". He shouted at me again and I told him he should keep his "fucking dogs under control".

I'm not happy about having dog rage but honestly what type of idiot allows their two dogs to get right up the bum of another dog having a poo?

What would you have done in similar circumstances?

I guess I'd be considered one of those rude owners with a rude dog.
I actually think she has good doggy manners but i guess to a person who doesn't know her she could come across as scary. Shes never bounced on another dogs back or bit/nibbled a dogs neck. I'd count her as a medium sized dog. She mostly just runs a couple of laps around a dog them lies herself down infront of them wagging her tail.
I do try to be as considerate to other dog owners as I can, I will put her on her lead if I spot a dog I don't know first, problem is her recall is 50/50 when she sees a dog, which I'm working on. Just me and her and shes absolutely fine wont go more than a couple of meters from me, but as soon as she spots another dog its a genuine battle to keep her attention on me.
Most of the time she literally does just want to say hello and then she'll come straight back to me. And although it sounds like people don't appreciate it, I always shout an apology and that she wont hurt anyone while calling her back.
Having read this thread I wonder if part of the reason for nervous dogs is them being unable to be walked off lead due to high prey drive etc. I've been lucky with mine in as much as when I first got her she was very nervous, to the the point when I started walking her she was always underfoot and I was tripping over her and the lead. I live by a field so I just started walking her off lead, and she just became more confident. As I say her recall is great when its just me and her so I don't worry about her running of. So I guess what I'm asking is do people with nervous dogs (from puppys, not rescues) think their dog would be less nervous if they were in a secure environment where they could also be let off lead too?

Ginger is right @numbereightyone. It was never intended to apply to domestic dogs.

Canine hierarchy is fluid, not fixed, as psychologically they are what's termed social opportunists.
Wolf packs are family units.
I actually have a "proper pack", at least in the Wolf sense - mother and two offspring. Even they display a fluid hierarchy - with food the pups won't go near mums bowl, but will eat out of each other's bowls, balls the youngest bitch takes charge and the boy takes charge of anything squeaky.
A dog cannot be born dominant as dominance is only ever as a result of the submission of others.

My dog is nervous about bum sniffing in general. I have had to do similar in past - I make remarks to the owner 'you wouldn't like me coming up to you and sniff your bum, would you' -

That normally puts people in their tracks.

@SpiderCid my nervous girl is nearly always off lead - she's well trained, has bombproof recall and no interest in other dog's.
She's also less likely to snap if she can move vet away from a dog that she doesn't want to play with.
Doesn't mean she wants every dog invading her space.

My small dog is aggressive with alsations and small, black-coated bitches because she was rough-housed by dogs like this a few years ago. If I don’t recognize dogs and I have doubts or definitely if they are black and we can’t tell the sex, I put her on the lead immediately. She’s better in wide open spaces where she can see them coming from a long way off, but narrow lanes or footpaths can be a problem.

@SpiderCid my dog is fine off lead and needs to be in order to expend her energy. She's reactive to other dogs who chase her. She's trained to come to me and sit quietly if another dog is making her feel uncomfortable. That's how we manage it. She doesn't need to be in a 'secure environment' she needs dog owners who have dogs who like to chase to have sufficiently good recall and awareness of their environment, to recall their dogs when politely informed that my pooch doesn't want to play chase.

@FairfaxAikman - snap! Mine is exactly the same. And not aggressive to other dogs per se. Just doesn't like being chased!

I probably don't know enough about the pack animal theory as it's very complex to use it as shorthand for the point I wanted to make and I know that methods used by Cesar Milan (sp) have been debunked. I totally agree that a dog doesn't need to be dominated to be happy/well behaved. Perhaps I should have used 'social animal' rather than 'pack animal' to make the point better? I also appreciate that there are exceptions to every rule.

All I asked is why there are so many dogs that are nervous around other dogs lately?

Actually that’s not “all” you did. You implied it was due to lazy owners not socialising their dogs. You’re “I’m not being goady” disclaimer did nothing to hide your goady point.

Spider your dog doing laps & then laying down in front of mine would have sent him crazy. He was lead reactive (ex street dog) but because of poor recall he wasn't trusted off lead, so i was stuck. The last dog that circled him went on to attack him from behind.

I get totally that dogs are still animals & thus unpredictable, but unless your dog's recall is spot on 95% of the time around distractions it shouldn't be off imo. One of mine was a staff, ex breeding bitch. She came to me in shit state & was thoroughly pissed off with other dogs in her space. She only ever attacked in retaliation once, usually we contained it; despite the fact that the bouncy labrador was the one off lead & refusing to pee off it was me that was screamed at for having a dangerous, out of control dog.

Thanks for the responses, I just wondered as mine tends to act more nervous when shes on lead than off and most of the responses to the thread seemed to suggest that nervous dogs were being walked on lead.

A lot of dogs are lead reactive rather than dog aggressive i've found. I guess it's because they have less control over their space, can't choose flight if you're attached to a person so you have to fight instead

I have one totally bomb proof dog (a rescue) and one reactive dog (well bred from a responsible breeder). They’ve both done agility, obedience, kennel club bronze and puppy socialisation classes. The reactive one is reactive now because he is a small breed (border terrier) who has been attacked, bounced on and scared by bigger dogs. He is ok off lead and just tries to avoid other dogs but shouts at them once they’ve gone on their way but on lead he shouts at everything. They’ve both been raised in exactly the same way but different sizes and personalities mean one is reactive and one isn’t!

If I see a dog on a lead I call mine back. There's a reason why the owner has put that dog on a lead and that should be respected.

My dog doesn’t like being surrounded when she’s on the lead and having a poo. I think this is pretty normal really, even for the most socialised dog.

It’s perfectly normal. It’s well known, (or should be by anyone who takes on a dog) that dogs feel particularly vulnerable when pooing. It’s why many of them will try to make eye contact with their owner (thanks for that DDog! ) whilst pooing for reassurance that they’re safe.

I’m quite surprised at some of the ignorance being expressed on this thread by dog owners and even a dog trainer!

Is there a dog trainer on this thread?

Apparently so.

Donny my mum's dog sticks his arse in a bush & barks if my mum walks away 😂 Definitely a safety thing.

I don't understand ignorant dog owners, I really don't. It's pretty simple, surely? If you let your dog off lead, make sure you can still control it. If you see an on lead dog, keep your off lead dog away. It doesn't matter why the dog is on a lead.

brilliant. Just what you want when your dog is shitting, the dog drawing attention to it so everyone watches you watching your dog shitting. Lovely.

Actually that’s not “all” you did. You implied it was due to lazy owners not socialising their dogs. You’re “I’m not being goady” disclaimer did nothing to hide your goady point.

^^this

I simply cannot comprehend dog owners who have "reactive" dogs when they have had their dog from a young puppy.

If you don't understand how genetics, breed, parentage, litter mates, illness and early life (

There is also the point that the dog on-lead may be recovering from injury/old/ill and will not welcome the 'come and play or be disrespected' attitude of some out of control dog.
A year or so ago my lurch was recovering from a broken toe so he was put back on the lead when a couple of huge chocolate labradors began to circle and threaten him (owner some distance away and not in control). Two dogs meant that he (injured) would not have been able to escape even if he was off-lead. I did not know the dogs or the owner so I was in retreat as I lectured the owner when she eventually arrived about 'being in control'
When ddog grew old and unsteady I walked him off-lead early and late to avoid the same problem.

Something interesting about 'socialisation'

It's not about letting them tear about like loonies pouncing on each other and 'letting them get on with it'
www.pawsinhand.co.uk/161/what-is-socialisation-anyway.html

purpletango my cocker spaniel was a very outgoing happy social dog, until he was pinned to the ground and badly attacked by a springer spaniel whose owner did nothing to help.... he swallowed so much blood he was violently sick (not a nice sight) and he had puncture wounds all over his mouth and chest. I had my 3 year old grandson with me, and was literally terrified. I had to rush the dog to the vet covered in blood, and had a £300 bill and it took weeks for his stomach to return to normal. Since then, understandly, my dog is very cautious when other dogs approach him, he will come and stand right next to me and look for me to say "its ok", if I don't know the dog he goes on a lead so both he and I feel better about it. It breaks my heart that his confidence has gone, and the springer that caused it has also attacked 4 other dogs in the village in a similar way. I reported it to the Police but the owner says it's the other dogs that attacked his and he was reacting. Fucking arsehole - excuse my language. He is supposed to have it on a lead and muzzled in public, but I've seen him around at least 3 times without as have others, and sent photos to the Police but nothing happens. I'd give anything to have my happy go lucky dog back, trust me. He's nervous because he has cause to be.

Confess to being a lurker but just have to chime in. I have a 17mo rescue chi. Had him for 4m. He is the sweetest dog, loves to say hello to people and dogs, on or off lead. Loves to play with dogs his size, only chasey though. Bigger dogs he is happy to hang out with and sniff the sniffs etc. If he is not happy with another dog he will tell them off verbally and if that doesn’t work he pancakes and waits for rescue.
The thing is, I know his history and he had never left his run after he was brought home as an 8wo and never met any other dogs. Perhaps his breeder did an incredibly good job in those 8 weeks but I doubt it.
So i reckon inborn temperament must be important. I’m not saying dogs don’t need to be socialised, my sister has a min schnauzer who I had care of 2/3 days a week from 10w and we both put a lot of effort into socializing him. However it follows that if I have a non reactive dog who was not socialized at all there can also be dogs, rescue or not, whose owners do all the right things and are still reactive.