don't want to be "that owner" but puppy may have to go back to breeder

[PoppyPopcorn]

Devastated. We've had our almost 12 week old puppy for a week. She is a very good, chilled out pup and we appear to be making progress with toileting.

However. My middle child has always been nervous around dogs but was so excited about getting the puppy. Unfortunately the reality of having a dog in the house is distressing him enormously - he's hiding in his room, won't come into the lounge if he thinks the puppy is around, can't be in a room with her unless someone's got a tight hold on her collar. After a week he's not improving and although he loves the idea of having a puppy the reality is just too much for him.

After a sleepless night with lots of tears last night DH and I have decided to speak to the breeder and see if she would potentially take the puppy back. We're pretty sure she'd take her.

I really didn't plan on being in this situation. We did our research, found the ideal puppy to join our family and knew what we were letting ourselves in for. The effect on my son's mental wellbeing as not something I had accounted for and we just can't have him uncomfortable in his own home for the foreseeable future. We also think that returning the puppy after just a week is the best thing for her - she's going back to a familiar setting with her mum and sibling.

But still. I feel dreadful about it. My other kids will be devastated. I'm gutted for them and gutted for the puppy. Trying to spin it to the kids that getting the pup was more of a lifestyle change than we had been prepared for as we don't want their brother to feel guilty.

Class A parenting fuck up and I just feel awful.

One other thought, is your son emetophobic by any chance and has the puppy thrown up? I only ask because it might be an aligned fear, not a fear specifically related to dogs iyswim. It might be helpful to drill down with your son and pinpoint what exactly it is about the puppy that scares him?

Im suprised at 12 he is still nervous. Has he shown a phobia regarding dogs before ? We have a happy little terrier and unfortunately two friends of our children werepetrified of dogs. They just have never been exposed to them before. One of the boys will now sit with the dog and stroke him after a few visits. The other is still nervous so we put the dog outside if he is visiting.

I am having doubts too but from what I've read it's very common for new dog owners to feel this way.

There was a programme on tv last night, think it was BBC 2, about puppies. Shows how much hard work they are. There was one family with a golden retriever. Might be an idea to watch it OP as that will give you an idea of what you are going to face in the next few weeks/months regardless of your DS's fears.

I too feel sorry for your other children. When I read the first post I assumed your DS was pre school age, not 12. He does have needs if he behaves like this after agreeing to have a puppy. However I suggest you have a family meeting and everyone decides what to do. If the majority want to keep the puppy then their wishes should not be overridden. I am amazed a normal 12 year old is like this. If you are all ambivalent about the puppy then try and sent it back. Didn't sound a good breeder in the first place with the cages. I wouldn't have bought a puppy that wasn't with its Mum and playing with its siblings. Was it a puppy farm?

Have you told your son you plan on sending the dog back ?

Persist with this for your son and for the puppy.

It's not 'for the puppy', though, is it?

No offence to the OP's family, who I'm sure are lovely, but the puppy will easily be snapped up by a home that is just as good. If they return him now.

Yes. The TV programme was interesting. The golden retriever was getting very mixed messages. The car scene was dreadful! It must have been for the cameras - surely!!!

Have you asked him what it is he's scared of when the puppy is walking around? Is there a cause to the fear, eg nipping, jumping up? Could you put her in a pen in the living room and get him used to being in the same room as her for a while first?

Ah well if you are having doubts too then that is a whole different ball game. You and your dh have primary caring responsibilities for the puppy, so you have to be totally committed through good times and bad (and a puppy can be as much work as a baby). Could it be your middle son has picked up on your doubts? In this scenario, with you having doubts, I would return the puppy without question.

I meant "for the puppy" in the sense that the op is obviously a responsible, caring person or she wouldn't be feeling so upstairs about this, and is able to provide a good home, if committed. (Even more so if it came from puppy farm.) But I understand what you are saying Koala.

Upset, not upstairs!!

I have a friend who got a golden retriever puppy recently, having not owned dogs before as a family, and the puppy was a whole lot more boisterous, bouncy, nippy and generally bonkers than they had expected, it jumped on sofas, up on people, nipping, and so on. They have done a really good job of training it and getting on top of the situation, but basically had to abandon holidays for a year and exercise the puppy and make their family all about that. I could see that for a nervous about dog person, which I am, that type of dog would be my worst nightmare, especially around 6-9 months, so when grown quite big but essentially not controllable, I found visiting them stressful and living with it must have been stressful as well. It just isn't the same as a calmer already trained dog at all.

I'm sure if you do keep it, your son and the dog will find a way to co-exist, but it sounds like the stress of that path is going to be too much for all of you, and you sound stressed already about it, see what the breeder says, I'm sure the puppy is rehomable now and I don't think passing it onto another loving home at this stage is a bad thing. You don't have to be fully dog phobic to find dogs who jump up/mouth/are chaotic stressful, I couldn't live with one in my daily life, but it doesn't stop me going for walks or going to places there are dogs, or even petting nice well behaved dogs- out of control dogs are a fear of mine though and I've had a few encounters over the years!

No it was t a puppy farm. We saw the puppies with their mum and the breeders have a long history with the breed. They don't advertise and haven't had puppies since 2014. I'm sure they will fine a loving home for her if that's the way we decide to go.

My 6 year old hated our pup (cross breed involving golden retreiver, poodle and many more breeds - but big) for a month or two - due to the nipping, jumping up etc. She also was scared of dogs. We used crate training and stair gates- to give her (and all of us) a bit of safe space.

Within 3 months she got over her fears and fell in love with him. He is just over 18 months and she loves him sleeping on her bed and spends more time with him than the other 3.

I think keeping the pup would actually in the slightly longer term be much better for your child's mental health.

Good luck

And meant to add this is my first experience of dog owning. DH had a dog growing up but she was passed the puppy stage when they got her so he didn't ever do the puppy stage.

The thing is puppies are bitey, jumpy and full on until they have been trained and matured. Having doubts yourself OP is normal, check out all the threads on here about the same issue. If it is purely about your middle DC then I would speak to the whole family as it is tricky as your other DC will be upset from what you have said and even if your middle DC is afraid does he want the puppy to go or does he want it to stay?

Well I must be a terrible parent , but if he will stroke her / him when it's being held then he doesn't sound phobic and I'm afraid I'd be keeping the puppy and using pens and gates if necessary . No way would I have one child hold the rest of the house to ransom like this . My eldest sister didn't like our horses or the time they took up for the whole family , I'd have never forgiven my parents if they had got rid of them because of her ( and I do get on with her) .

You're not answering whether you've spoken to your son, several have asked?

If you're having doubts as well, puppy should go back. A puppy requires full commitment from the main caregivers (i.e. You and DH). Also getting what is effectively a working dog as a first time owner with a child that's nervous around dogs was probably a very, very large mistake.

Yes we've spoken to him. He is a people-pleaser and says that there's nothing wrong, that he's fine, that he loves the puppy and will be OK with her. His actions indicate otherwise though.

I had a childhood phobia of dogs which was quite bad. I would be walking down the street worrying if a dog would appear. I hated the beach or even parks. I wouldn't even be in the same room with a friend's nice dog.
I got over this fear as I grew up because I'm a real animal lover and we had always had other pets. Of course I would read about dogs and see them on TV and realised my fears were irrational and they are just an animal like any pet, you might need to be a little careful around strange dogs but generally they love people and are lovely. I started by getting used to friendly, calm dogs and found I really liked them. Now I have my own dog and I feel very confident around dogs.
Being confident around dogs is an important life skill imo. Dogs are everywhere and it is very limiting to have a fear of them. People who approach dogs in a calm, confident manner get much better response from the dog.
If it were me I would keep the dog as I would love to have a puppy myself and I'd want to teach my ds to be confident around the puppy. But as others have said if you don't feel up to dealing with this right now it's best to rd home the puppy right away as another home can be found for him more easily. If you do rehome I would still focus on ensuring your son gets used to dogs and work on overcoming any fear he has of them.

Op - have you done any research in to dog communication? (Pls ignore this post if so.) If not, I would strongly advise it, as it would help both yourself and your son.

Buy the book "Calming Signals" by Turid Rugass.

Get a dog behaviourist in who will teach you the basics. Basically, our "primate" communication signals (vocals, hand movements, touching) are totally alien or downright rude when it comes to canine communication (which is more reliant on blocking space, sniffing, subtle non-vocal signals, leaning towards or away).

Maybe if you could get your son involved in the training, he will come to understand that the puppy is sometimes fearful too and he could relate to it better? For example, when you teach your puppy lessons such as "bite inhibition" and "giving up objects" he could be involved in the process and therefore feel less scared?

Best if you buy a book, or get a good behaviourist, but in summary, to start with, helpful to teach your dc not to look a dog directly in the eyes, not to lean over it, or bend in over it, not to disturb it when it is eating, obviously not to pull tail or ears, to approach and stroke it from the side not from above, not to hug or kiss, to put out a hand or object for it to sniff first, to make all movements calm and gentle, not sudden or jerky, to use calm low voices generally and high encouraging ones when teaching something specific. Dogs always give out signals when they are unhappy; it is up to us to listen and interpret.

This sort of thing www.pinterest.com/pin/19632948350926644/

Maybe your son would be empowered by a bit more information?

My DD was 5 when we got our labrador puppy. She used to be petrified. She would sit on the back of the couch and want to be carried in and out of the room in case the puppy nipped at her feet. It lasted a few weeks until both were comfortable with each other and the puppy knew it's place in the packing order. A week isn't long. Now they are best friends. Puppy is 2 years old and sleeps under my daughter's bed every night. it's a tough one OP but a week is such a short adjustment for both child and puppy.

The absolute worst thing you can do from an anxiety/ phobia pov would be to get rid of the puppy. All you are teaching your son is that his fear is real (it isn't) and the only way to manage it is to avoid dogs (its not.)

Much better idea is to keep the dog and slowly build on his confidence, he will have to face his fears but in the long term this will be a better result for everyone.

You seem to be concerned that keeping the dog will be detrimental to his mental health but i can promise you getting rid of the dog will do more damage. Teaching any child that avoidance is the only way to manage anxiety is setting them up for a lifetime of misery - I speak from experience!!

Would he try to get involved with training?
There's a YouTube channel, Kikopup, who clicker trains, if he could watch some of those might he be interested in having a go?
If he says he'll be fine, people pleaser or not, I'd be tempted to have a word with him about this, ask him to make some tiny steps towards bonding with the puppy and feeling less scared. If he doesn't think this is possible, then see if the breeder can take the puppy back as soon as possible.