Urgent help needed please - dog bit toddler.

[WheresMaHairyToe]

Rescued my dog 7 months ago, he was a stray and is between 3 and 5 years old. Lab/ lurcher type mongrel.
He has been wonderful - quick response to training in the home, not quite 100% on toileting but getting there, fantastic with my kids (all over 8.)
Today, we were at the beach for a couple of hours with my 3 plus 5 assorted niece and nephews. Dog completely fine.
Got home, everyone settled, kids playing in garden. Dog took himself to bed in another room. 2 year old niece followed. Nobody witnessed what happened, but niece was bitten on the face. Small cut and bruising - bad enough!
My brother wants the dog out of my house. He isn't insisting on PTS. I rang 4 shelters, all said he was not able to be rehomed, so would be destroyed.
I've put him in kennels to give us all some breathing space, and am waiting on two shelters calling me back. He had never shown a single sign of aggression before this, but apparently did not growl before biting. My brother got to him seconds after the bite, and said he was also aggressive to him.
I got home about 10 mins after bite to a very unhappy dog.
I am heart broken, I don't know what to do. I am considering building him an outdoor run and muzzling him when he's near children, but that seems awful.
Sorry if this is incoherent. I'm in a bit of a state!
Please help with advice if you can! Or if you know of a no- kill shelter anywhere in NI.

Well "your fault" as in human error then

Brother for not watching his daughter

Your brother is totally in the wrong why on earth would you leave a dog and toddler alone?

My mums dog bit me as a kid. He was fighting and I waded in to break it up. I still have the scars luckily not to my face. It was my fault I learned very quickly you don't put yourself in the middle of two dogs fighting. Children should be wary of unknown dogs. My lo is not allowed anywhere near someone's dog without me and she is learning that you must always ask the owner if it's okay to touch.

The question is will it happen again? I think that your first port of call should be a behaviorist. I know a great bloke down west country. Pm if you live near and would like the details. I think you need some outside perspective with someone who knows what they are talking about. If the dog has snapped once it can happen again.

Good luck op and I hope it turns OK x

A dog that has bitten a child's face should be PTS. End of.

Human error. DB was at fault.

Dog had a busy exciting day, took himself off to bed for a rest, was followed by an unsupervised toddler, we don't know what then happened. You can bet your bottom dollar that when DB heard his child in distress he went in all guns blazing and the dog reacted out of fear.

I am not a dog fan at all.

But I think the fault here lies solely with your brother. He failed to keep an eye on his dd and is now feeling guilty and defensive.

It's not the dog's fault.

I wonder how some posters on here expected the child's father to react? Should he have run to the dog and said 'poor doggie - did my nasty brat's face hurt your little teethy-weethy?'

OP - you've had professional advice from several sources and they seem to have been unanimous. Are you going to listen to them?

If it's out of character and an isolated incident I would give the dog the benefit of the doubt he was clearly harassed by the toddler who wasn't being watched properly. I have a dog and a two yr old who once ran upto the dog and jumped on its back so quick I couldn't get there fast enough despite only being a few feet away. Dog didn't bite but snapped. Totally out of character and not the dogs fault.

Be vigilant, keep the dog out of the way when lots of children are around and see if there is another incident then make a decision on the dogs future.

Plenty of rescues will take in a dog if it has bitten a human if the scenario is like ops. Some will reply with a stock "no can't sorry" because they are full and don't have the time or funds to dedicate to a dog that would need a bit more work to ensure the dog is fine and it was a one off. They will also sometimes have a proviso that that particular dog is not rehomed with children,or they may even just have one of their foster network look after it for as long as necessary. It is incorrect to say no rescue at all won't take such a dog in.

Or should I say some will reply with a stock "no" if that's their policy or they don't have the funds etc

Should he have run to the dog and said 'poor doggie - did my nasty brat's face hurt your little teethy-weethy?'

Yeah, because there's nothing between that and demanding the dog be got rid of.

Don't be so silly.

Exactly the same thing happened to my (5yo) niece last summer. Dog and lots of kids playing happily on beach all day. When they all got home, the kids were left unsupervised with dog in a small room where the dog could not easily get away. After a short while there was a scream and my niece came out with a bite to her face (needed stitches).

NOT ONE PERSON in any of the families involved blamed the dog. They all blamed themselves for putting the poor kids and dog in that dangerous situation.

The doctor who treated my niece said that her injury was definitely not the result of an aggressive bite because there was no evidence of 'tugging'. The cut and bruise she suffered was from a sharp snap or accidental turning of the head with teeth bared, which is exactly the sort of response a tired dog would give if cornered or hurt. An aggressive attack from a dangerous dog is a completely different thing and would have been far more serious.

In this case, my niece also grew up with an extremely placid dog who 'you could do anything to' (poor dog). She had no training or boundaries and would hug and get her face close to any dog. Entirely the fault of her parents not teaching her proper boundaries around dogs (they would agree with this now).

OP, Well done for your very reasonable and rational response to this highly emotional situation. Your suggestion of crate and kennel whilst kids are visiting is the perfect solution to keeping both the dog and children safe. I am sure that others will be also be ok with it when the current sense of emergency has calmed down. Yes also to seeing a good (positive) behaviourist to help you, and others, understand your dog and it's signals more clearly.

I really do urge people saying that the dog should be PTS to read some of the excellent resources suggested upthread. There is so much good advice available now on dog behaviour and communication. Understanding this can only help keep everyone safer.

I wonder how some posters on here expected the child's father to react? Should he have run to the dog and said 'poor doggie - did my nasty brat's face hurt your little teethy-weethy

Don't be so ridiculous. You're missing the point entirely. Of course he should have gone in all guns blazing and terrified the dog. That doesn't mean he then has to demand the dog is pts

But nobody actually knows that the child went up to the dog and disturbed it while it was sleeping. Yes the child should have been supervised but what if the child had just gone into the other room and the dog had gone for it? Anyone saying that all the dog did was react to a child who disturbed it in its bed are just making that bit up to suit their own agenda.

The brother said the dog was still aggressive towards him when he went into the room to see to his child. So it's entirely possible that the dog is aggressive and bit unprovoked while at the same time acknowledging that the child should have been supervised.

Reality is that in many cases where babies and toddlers are seriously injured or worse by aggressive dogs there is also an element of human error in the equation e.g. The baby left asleep in a room where the aggressive guard dogs got through an open window and killed the baby. The dogs were guard dogs bred and known for their aggression. They absolutely had to be destroyed but the humans should never have put a baby in a place where aggressive dogs could get to her. Nobody would have advocated for those dogs to be kept or blamed the family for not supervising their child around aggressive dogs, even though they were in part to blame for what ultimately happened.

This is the same. The child shouldn't have been left or allowed to run after the dog. But just because it was doesn't mean the child or the parent is to blame when the dog turned and bit her on the face.

KoalaDownUnder - the OP's brother has come in for an awful lot of attacks for his possible reaction to his child being bitten. Apparently being unhappy about it is wrong. I can only conclude that he should have ignored his crying child and cuddled the animal instead. What do you think? TBF, any parent would instinctively attack the dog.

stonecircle - if you had read the thread, you would have seen that the OP's brother said the dog was aggressive towards him too, for which many posters have blamed his possible reaction to the animal's aggression. But you haven't read it, you just decided to take what I said completely out of context.

seahorses
Where is the 'professional advice from several sources' you mention?
I have just reread the whole thread and can't find any...

I don't agree with pps who said a rescue wouldn't take him knowing his history. It's not clear, he may have issues or it may have been a one off because the child hurt him or something but most good rescues would work with him over any aggression and rehome him to a family without small children. Dog rescues love dogs and would only pts as a last resort if at all. Of course most rescues are absolutely full up and resources are stretched but they would take him if they had to or help you find a rescue which could take him.
I'm not saying you should rehome him if you feel you can manage with the advice given here, but if it was necessary you could and definitely don't need to think about having him pts.

Your suggestion of crate and kennel whilst kids are visiting is the perfect solution to keeping both the dog and children safe

And what happens when you take the dog out? You said you were down on the beach. Can you be sure, absolutely sure, that your dog won't react to some random child in an outdoors scenario?

(This, by the way, is why I never let my children approach a stranger's dog and I go apeshit if strangers let their dog approach my children!)

Why wasn't your brother keeping an eye on his dd? When DC were young we had a dog. I never took my eyes off DC . I would certainly not have left either DC with ddog. Ddog was one of those placid dogs who never showed any aggression but that is because after a big day out she would be put in a quiet room with her bed so she could chill. No one disturbed her. I have no doubt if I had let DC wander in to the room and get close to her face and frightened her she would have at some point retaliated.

I think the choice is rehome to someone who has no children and is willing to put the work in or not have brother around as he can't be trusted to supervise his dc

I wouldn't rehome a dog that had a history of biting, even if I didn't have children. I've always had dogs, but still wouldn't feel prepared to deal with that for the rest of the dog's life. I have a dog who growled at a child who refused to leave her alone, despite repeated pleas to the parents to control him. She did not bite him, but since that day I cannot relax when my dog is around kids. I'm sure there are lots of people who would be willing to take a reactive dog on, but I'd still rather PTS than have the dog possibly passed from pillar to post.

I have a small dog who is fine with children unless she is tired and settled (in her bed/on cushion at home). She has snapped before so wears a soft, comfy muzzle that she can drink and pant through when at home and the children are around her. This has meant that life can go on as normal. She is still our much loved pet, she needs no muzzle outside or if the children aren't around. Our children are small and will not completely understand that they must leave her alone if she is tired and settled. It only takes me to pop to the loo for a problem to occur! As they grow, we may not need it at all.

It is the Ancol Mesh Muzzle. Works for us!

What a very sad and completely avoidable situation.

I hope OP you take full responsibility for your decision to allow EIGHT presumably lively young children to be with your rescue dog for many hours then not even be there in your home to protect it, probably tired and stressed, from further attention from a two year old.

And please don't use mumsnet posts as an excuse to justify whatever decision you make, particularly if you decide to destroy him.

In practical terms in the immediate future, you should not have other people who don't live with you (eg your brother) to be in the house with the dog when you're not there, particularly when they can't supervise their own children.

I suggest you try very hard to find a kind quiet home yourself, with a less chaotic-sounding lifestyle for this dog. You owe it to him to try very hard indeed, be honest with possible owners about your own failings which led to this situation as it sounds as though he would be fine with adults, older kids and people who are more responsible,

Poor dog, he deserves so much better.

"Where is the 'professional advice from several sources' you mention?" OP said she had contacted several rescues and they had all said that they wouldn't take him or that he would be destroyed.

Wannabe they said that is what the rescue would have to do as they aren't able to rehome the dog, they didn't say the OP needed to PTS.

Natalia
I get what you are saying and I completely agree with you about not letting strange dogs and kids interact. This really annoys me too - both the parents who let their child run up and touch my dog without checking with me first and also people who let their dog run up to strangers, especially kids, saying "it's ok, he's friendly." Grrrr Think you are perfectly within your rights to tell em where to go!

However, if you know your dog well and supervise properly then, yes, I do think you can be sure it's ok because a) you can clearly see what is going on and can stop a child from harrassing the dog before it escalates and b) the dog is in an open situation where it can easily move away from an annoying child (which is what most dogs would do as first choice).