Urgent help needed please - dog bit toddler.

[WheresMaHairyToe]

Rescued my dog 7 months ago, he was a stray and is between 3 and 5 years old. Lab/ lurcher type mongrel.
He has been wonderful - quick response to training in the home, not quite 100% on toileting but getting there, fantastic with my kids (all over 8.)
Today, we were at the beach for a couple of hours with my 3 plus 5 assorted niece and nephews. Dog completely fine.
Got home, everyone settled, kids playing in garden. Dog took himself to bed in another room. 2 year old niece followed. Nobody witnessed what happened, but niece was bitten on the face. Small cut and bruising - bad enough!
My brother wants the dog out of my house. He isn't insisting on PTS. I rang 4 shelters, all said he was not able to be rehomed, so would be destroyed.
I've put him in kennels to give us all some breathing space, and am waiting on two shelters calling me back. He had never shown a single sign of aggression before this, but apparently did not growl before biting. My brother got to him seconds after the bite, and said he was also aggressive to him.
I got home about 10 mins after bite to a very unhappy dog.
I am heart broken, I don't know what to do. I am considering building him an outdoor run and muzzling him when he's near children, but that seems awful.
Sorry if this is incoherent. I'm in a bit of a state!
Please help with advice if you can! Or if you know of a no- kill shelter anywhere in NI.

I agree with you Gah. Stupid bloody humans and the poor dog pays the price.

I agree with you Gah. Stupid bloody humans and the poor dog pays the price.

It's a tough call. I had to rehome a dog last year who snapped at my son. I was fully supervising and could 100% say my child was not at fault, but whenever my child wasn't around the dog was happy, I think I had a top dog who wanted a quiet house issue. Same problem you had, nearly all shelters said no due to the snap. Hairy Hounz in Southampton took him and we were completely honest that he absolutely could not live with children. They've found him a wonderful home, with a quiet house, no children to annoy him. I feel for you OP, no easy solution.

If your DB had been supervising his child, this wouldn't have happened - the dog had had a long and tiring day and removed itself from the noise and bustle, the toddler followed and presumeably harassed or hurt the dog, the dog defended itself and it's the dog's fault?! The person at fault here is your brother.

I think that I am going to get a crate, and a kennel (we have a big outdoor space.) He can continue to sleep in with me. He will be crated or outside if kids are here. My own youngest (8) will have to be worked on too - he will have to learn that the dog needs his own space. He's pretty good, but he's going to have to be perfect. I'm looking into a behaviourist too.
I haven't slept a wink. I'm still going to investigate shelters, but in all good conscience, I can't abandon him if there is an alternative.

pts only option. Don't rehome, this could have already happened hence why he's now with you.

If this is the criteria on which to put a dog to sleep, then every dog in the land should be put to sleep. What your dog did is normal dog behaviour, that any dog is capable of, and it is precisely why two year olds should be supervised around animals.

My dog is soft as a brush and can withstand a great deal of harassment but he has, on occasions, snapped when a child has been relentlessly harassing and trapping him. I didn't even contemplate rehoming/putting him to sleep.

pts only option.

Don't be so absolutely ridiculous.

If this is the criteria on which to put a dog to sleep, then every dog in the land should be put to sleep. What your dog did is normal dog behaviour, that any dog is capable of

Exactly.

Good decision op.

Can't believe so many posters are saying pts. Stupid cold hearted responses. Obviously don't like dogs.

Such hysterical posts here. OP you sound like a responsible owner, there are ways to make sure your dog and the various DC are never put in this situation again - your DB sounds remarkably lax around dogs (and in fact I'd be worried that his 'placid' dog will one day get fed up with kids that have no boundaries).

If your youngest is 8 that's very different to a 2 year old toddler but obviously you know your dog and DC and need to risk assess accordingly.

Rehoming seems extreme, and the calls for PTS are beyond ridiculous. Crate-training your dog, giving him a safe outside space of his own and enforcing the education of your children seems totally sensible. Just make sure you don't exclude him from family life - if that starts to happen then rehome may well be a better option for him.

So, the child was bitten but because no-one saw what happened the humans must be at fault? even though this is a stray of unknown origins, and according to the brother the dog bit not only his child but was aggressive towards him as well? But the humans must be at fault?

I absolutely agree that if a child harasses a dog to the point that it snaps then it is not the dog's fault. However, nobody knows what happened, therefore it would be completely irresponsible to give the dog the benefit of the doubt, given that we know the dog is now capable of aggression.

Amazing isn't it that if a child came to their parent and said that granny/uncle/stepdad had given them a tap (smack) on the hand it would be deemed assault and the adults should go NC to protect their child from the abuser, yet a dog bites a child and leaves a mark but that must be the adult's fault and poor poor dog?

Just because a dog has bitten unprovoked once doesn't mean that it's going to turn and maul a child to death. But the problem is that you will never ever be able to trust it again. The point at which you have a dog who must be locked away from children/kept caged/kennelled/muzzled on walks you have what you deem to be an aggressive dog.

It would be completely irresponsible to rehome an aggressive dog. If that dog goes on to bite someone else you are responsible for that, because you knowingly passed it on. If the new owner decides that instead of having the dog put to sleep they will beat it to death, you will be partly responsible because you passed the problem on.

The only responsible thing to do here is to have the dog put to sleep. And never rehome a stray again. The rescue who rehomed a stray to a family with young children were completely irresponsible as well. But this is why I would never rescue a dog as on the whole rescues' history is unknown and they often cannot be trusted.

A crate is a good idea. I had one after oir incident tho we don't use it anymore as mu ds is a bit older now and understands to leave the dog alone when she is sleeping etc.

for you OP. It really is upsetting and emotions will be running high on both sides. I apologised profusely to my dsis but did also tell her not to come around until I had sorted dog safety out. In reality I didn't want to have an arguement with her about it all while enotions were still high.

I did tell my mum dsis behaviour and attitude towards dogs would lead dn to get bitten again which it did. And dsis has admitted now that she was complacent about dn safety around dogs.

We also have ponies and I rarely allow dn to come to the yard despite sister repeatedly asking. Mainly because dsis doesn't listen about yard safety. And also sadly because the dcs pony just doesn't like him either. It's sad because dn loves animals but they don't seem to like him.

Also agree with plantsitter

Any dog thread on here brings out the posters who would put dogs before people in any and every situation and feel children and adults should just accept being bitten, and the people who say PTS very quickly.

In fact if you own a dog you have to supervise it every single second around children and potentially also around adults. The onus is on the dog owner to keep the dog separate from children or closely supervised.

PTS. Sorry but it bit a toddler's face, it's dangerous.

Good decision op, my friend adopted a little dog from Romania, was told it was "bomb proof" and great with kids. It wasn't! She had tiny kids at the time too. She hired a dog behaviourist who worked with the whole family setting up a way of interacting with the dog which helped him to feel safe and calm (a lot of this involved teaching the children to read the dog's cues and only stroke him if he approached them first) Three years on and the dog is happy, settled and a much loved member of the family. I hope you'll find the same with your dog. Good luck!

Op, we got a playpen that folded out to be a baby barrier, and have fenced half the kitchen off for our dog. He's a lovely old thing, but he did get a bit growly when I was on my own with ds and another toddler and they were crowding him in the crate (I ended up sitting on the floor with an arm around each of them to hold hem back until the other child's mum came back in as I couldn't lift them both at once!). Dogs just need space sometimes. It wasn't an expensive one, just a cheap one from eBay, but it's been really useful.

A behaviourist is a good idea, and there is no reason your dc can't get involved with some simple, reward-based training too. Get them to teach the dog some tricks - it's a great way to bond, and means they're interacting with the dog in an appropriate way, rather than playing in a way that might not be fun for the dog. A training class would be an extremely good idea in any case, for lots of reasons, and I would always recommend one.

WannaBe, your whole post is ignorant. You clearly know nothing about dogs.

1. Dogs cannot speak (duh). That's why they react physically, in situations where the same reaction would be unacceptable from a human. This is hardly rocket science.

1. 'Strays' are not fundamentally different to any other dog. The pedigree you brought up from a puppy will also snap if it is put in a situation where it has no other way to defend itself.

1. ALL dogs are 'capable of aggression'.

1. If a human doesn't ensure its 2-year-old child is not harassing a dog? Yes. The human is at fault. Every time.

1. Not even going to answer your points about beating a dog to death and never rehoming rescue dogs, as I'm too disgusted.

Op have you had the dog checked at the vets?

Unexpected aggression could well be caused by pain/illness so before any decision I would be having a full health check to rule that out

The issue here though isn't that the dog snapped if it was harassed. The issue is that we know the dog has snapped at a child, the adult has stated that the dog was aggressive towards him as well so not a one-off snap out of frustration, but the dog is being given the benefit of the doubt.

NOT the dog's fault at all. Where were the adults when this two year old pursued the dog, who'd gone for some peace? Any dog, if provoked, will snap. Your children obviously know how to behave around the dog. A two year old doesn't and shouldn't be left alone with any dog, even the most placid. The adults in your home are responsible for this, not your dog, but it's easier to blame the dog than to take responsibility for what happened. It's also the dog that pays the price for stupid people.

From the way you describe it I don't think anyone can blame the dog. I hope your niece is Ok, but realistically if a lab lurcher really wanted to attack a child the damage would be a lot more :(

I really don't think you will get a rescue to take him on. The rescues in NI are all full with waiting lists, constantly. Lucys Trust or Almost Home Greyhound Rescue are the most likely to give you useful advice, but they don't have space.

The best you can do for him is provide a safe place and set down some strict rules for children. Seeing a behaviourist or a good trainer would give you some confidence. In NI there is only one qualified behaviourist who is based near Banbridge - don't know if this is anywhere near you. Sensible trainers are hard to find in Northern Ireland the land that dog training forgot so please choose carefully and stay clear of anyone talking about dogs wanting to dominate, or 'trainers' using shock or prone collars. Having someone come to your house and just observe your dog around your children could be reassuring ( or tell you that there is a problem ).

Your poor, poor niece. I hope she is OK, she must have been terrified

Wannabe...you're talking rubbish.

And if you actually bothered to read my post properly then you would see that I was not advocating beating dogs to death, but stating that if the OP rehomed it she couldn't possibly know what the reaction of the new owner would be when the dog bites someone next time, but that if that new owner decided that instead of having the dog pts he would beat the dog to death then the OP would be partly responsible for that for knowingly rehoming it when she knew it to be capable of aggression.

IIRC you're in Australia aren't you? So you will know that the norm in Australia is that if a dog bites it is rarely taken to the vet to be put to sleep, rather that the owner (or the bite victim or parent of the victim) will take the dog out and shoot it. It's no different to rehoming a dog to someone who might be cruel to it in the event it bit again, and the reality is that if you rehome a dog you cannot possibly know what the outcome will be if the behaviour you rehomed for raises its head again.

Rescues won't rehome dogs with a history of aggression for very good reasons. But instead let's slate all of those eh? And only uphold the rescues who are prepared to rehome aggressive dogs. No wonder there's a glut of unwanted animals in shelters...

Good measured decision op. Exactly what I'd do in this situation. Dogs are let down too many times by humans and made to pay the price when just a few changes would suffice.