Can you help us pick a breed?

[GinAndOnIt]

We currently have a lab/patt cross who is four years old, but have always had pairs of labs before now, and we are on the look out for a second dog.

We had just assumed it would be a lab, but I think it's worth considering other breeds too. We aren't in a rush, and will probably be a good long while before we actually get round to getting the next dog, but I just want some ideas so I know what we're looking for.

So, we ideally want a dog either a similar size to GinDog (he's a bit larger than a Patterdale) or larger. Can accommodate large dog but not something very powerful like a Ridgeback.

It needs to be a very active dog. An average day for it would either be at home with me which would include a lot of walking, or out at work with DP running alongside the tractor. GinDog can cover a ridiculous amount of miles!

It would need to be clever/alert enough to learn the sounds of farm vehicles, and just basically have its wits about it.

It needs to be a sociable dog that can handle visitors, children occasionally, other dogs, that kind of thing. We always have a rescue cat knocking around as well, so able to be around cats also a must.

Would potentially be a gundog too, but it's not a deal breaker if not.

Other than a Labrador, we've also thought of a beagle or a border collie. I think a beagle would tick the exercise plus social boxes, but I wonder if it would be a bit tricky to train, and whether we would ever get to the point of being able to let it off the lead. I think we wouldn't, and that could cause a problem when out with the tractor. I suppose a dog could stay with me at all times and have walks on the lead, but it is handy having the option to send it off with DP if I'm not well, or have a rare day of not being able to walk a lot.

What other breeds could we consider?

My old lab was great - she would bring you the tv remote, fetch her own lead for walks and close the garden gate if it was left open.
Unfortunately being a lab, she would also open all the kitchen cupboards and fridge, and help herself to food when we weren't looking.

We now have a dog approximately the size of a rabbit so she can't be taught anything useful at all!

hopping they do actually have quite a bit of farm collie in them - hence the foxy face and (mostly) white feet. Mine is definitely much more 'switched on' than any lab or goldie I've ever known - his breeder describes them as like collies with an off switch

Would a border collie ever curl up and have a cuddle with me or are they just not fussed about that kind of attention?

Being a staffy owner I cannot praise their good points enough. My staffy is excellent with people, children, other dogs, cats and livestock. He is soft as butter, very eager to please, learns quickly and very gentle with my autistic grandson. He never jumps up at people, is not rowdy and, in the house, likes to be a couch potato. Outside he energetic but attentive and makes sure that his family members are not too far away. I've had dogs all my life but he is the first staffy I've owned and his tolerance, gentleness and understanding has changed my perceptions about the breed. He is a champion!

I'm dreaming of a Belgian groenendael, the ones I've met have been fantastic. Rare though!

I have a Border Collie, and a little collie-cross who is less collie-like and I've previously had another BC and a GSD, all rescues.

Both of my BCs have been fabulous with me, totally devoted and desperate to follow me wherever I go. This is definitely a feature of collies. My current boy is almost 7 and we've had him since he was 18months old. He's perfection on 4 legs, completely obedient and looks to me for permission to do anything. He won't go to bed until I do and keeps me in his sight at all times. He's very intense and I know he would jump to protect me if he had to. He's friendly with other people, but that's happened over time and he originally quite suspicious of strangers. The only slight problem we have with him is that he doesn't like it when people are physical with each other and he feels the need to step in an control horse-play between humans and other dogs. For this reason we're very careful with him around young children as he has previously given a couple of kids very light control nips if they've been to boisterous. This is also a feature of many collies. He's beautiful, smart and sensitive and he's only ever been treated very kindly and positively by us as he crumbles if he thinks he's in trouble. I can highly recommend a rescue collie if you have the time and temperament to work gently and consistently with them.

My boy Charlie

*should proofread more!

I have Labradors but my next dog will definitely be a Border Collie. I know a few people with BC's. All of their dogs are absolutely adorable. So intelligent, easy to train, reliable, sociable, energetic, faithful and above all focus on every word that is said to them. I agree that collies are not for everyone. They need to be raised from puppyhood by people who know how dogs work.

I walk with owners of lots of breeds. Without doubt I am drawn to the collies. My next in line would be the Bearded Collie/Tibetan Terrier (Pippin). My least favourite breed is the poodle.

Fluffy do you think we have enough experience to handle a BC? DP has had labradors since he was knee high to a grasshopper, but only ever labradors. I have a bit of experience with a few other breeds but not masses.

dot Charlie sounds absolutely wonderful :) I'm glad they have a bit of a sensitive side too.

Another question: I don't know if it will happen, but if we were to have any children, would a BC cope with a child coming after them? Or would it be better for a BC to come into the household when it's complete IYSWIM? I would much much rather have a dog first for a few years to have it properly trained, than have to try and do it alongside kids, but I worry an intelligent dog might feel pushed out.

I don't think anyone can answer the before/after kids question Gin, as it depends entirely on the dog. My first BC arrived when my kids were 7 and 9 and ignored them (he was an adult of 3 when we adopted him). He had previously not been treated well and was a worried dog who focused on me for reassurance. He was an example of what happens when a collie is treated harshly and I put him to sleep a few years later because he never lost the tendency to bite when he was frightened, although never our kids.

The lovely Charlie had been through a few homes before he came to us but he was in much better condition and our kids were older by then. I'm not sure I would ever trust a BC around small children as they tend to find the running around and screaming to be exciting/disturbing and may respond by herding or nipping. Much as I love BCs I'm not sure they're ever the ideal dog to be around young children. Labs (for example) tend to be less anxious dogs and express excitement more positively.

Yes that's what I was worried about - whether a BC would cope with young kids in general. I wonder whether they would be better growing up with them, rather than being used to a child-free house and then a screaming thing suddenly appearing!

It's not that important I guess, as I would think any dog we have will go to work with DP most days if a baby was to come along, but I just wouldn't want to be one of these people who doesn't consider the future and then have to suddenly rehome a dog when circumstances change.

You sound like a very smart and considerate dog-owner OP. If you were open to the idea of a rescue dog, there are some really reputable rescues who keep their dogs in foster homes and have them thoroughly tested out living alongside small children and other animals. It's a different proposition to having them come straight from a kennel environment. Charlie came from such a rescue (Friends of the Animals RCT in Wales), he had spent 3 weeks living in a fosterer's house alongside their Rottweiler and 3yr old child. I knew what I was getting and there were no surprises with him. The added benefit of an older, well-adjusted dog is that you don't have house-training or basic obedience to get through - they can truly be 'click and go'!

Gin. All I can say about collies being different from Labradors is that they are much more active and are always on high alert. They NEED their owner to keep their brain active, through learning new tricks, providing puzzles etc They are a working dog and need to work - That doesn't mean they constantly chase cars, sheep etc Their work could be chasing and retrieving a ball (collies love to play ball), Frisbees, agility, flyball, retrieving toys by name - anything you can thing of to teach them new tricks and calm their energy.

If they have not been diverted from chasing as a puppy then they will continue to chase anything that moves. They are hard work when puppies but learn very quickly. Once they have learnt the basics they will never forget. They are always wanting to please their owner and very rarely get it wrong (Provided the training has been put in at puppy stage).

DH has said we can get a BC puppy! YAY!!

Sigh. I've been chatting to DP and he's pretty much veto-ed every breed other than a lab

He doesn't want a BC unless we move somewhere with outdoor kennels, as he thinks they're too wired to be indoors with us of an evening. He doesn't like the look of vizslas at all (I'm so sad about this ) and won't consider a Toller (I think because he's never heard of them).

It won't hurt to stick with what we know I suppose!

He doesn't want a BC unless we move somewhere with outdoor kennels, as he thinks they're too wired to be indoors with us of an evening

This isn't true of many BCs. Mine are both ready for bed at 8pm and I have to roll them off my side of the bed so I can get in! If they're happy, confident dogs who get enough exercise during the day they'll have no problem settling in the evenings.

Labs are lovely .... but Tollers are so much more fun

You said you joined the Black Lab X pages? They'll get you the right dog - it will take a bit of time, but I've seen a good few farm dogs on their pages. They got me DDog a few months ago (and yes, clearly this is just an excuse to post a pic). This is him just out of the sea.

Can I plug the Griffon Adoption Group UK? Lots of cuties and I think you could find a super active one you'd enjoy.

Yes I've joined the black lab X page :) our current lab cross is black and he's so lovely. And he gets away with murder because he is forever the size of a 4 month old lab pup

I'll have a look at the Griffin adoption Group too, thank you.

I do wonder if DP's only experience with BCs are proper working dogs who aren't really pets at all, but as I said, we're not in a rush and may wait another year yet before we properly look for one, so there's plenty of time to explore the lovely breeds mentioned here.

It's been a great help hearing about dogs from people who know or own them. There are so many sites that just have bullet points for the main characteristics, but having the extra personal experience is so much more useful about a breed I'm less aware of.

I don't know if it's already been suggested but what about a flatcoat? Best dogs ever. But then I'm biased