Can you help us pick a breed?

[GinAndOnIt]

We currently have a lab/patt cross who is four years old, but have always had pairs of labs before now, and we are on the look out for a second dog.

We had just assumed it would be a lab, but I think it's worth considering other breeds too. We aren't in a rush, and will probably be a good long while before we actually get round to getting the next dog, but I just want some ideas so I know what we're looking for.

So, we ideally want a dog either a similar size to GinDog (he's a bit larger than a Patterdale) or larger. Can accommodate large dog but not something very powerful like a Ridgeback.

It needs to be a very active dog. An average day for it would either be at home with me which would include a lot of walking, or out at work with DP running alongside the tractor. GinDog can cover a ridiculous amount of miles!

It would need to be clever/alert enough to learn the sounds of farm vehicles, and just basically have its wits about it.

It needs to be a sociable dog that can handle visitors, children occasionally, other dogs, that kind of thing. We always have a rescue cat knocking around as well, so able to be around cats also a must.

Would potentially be a gundog too, but it's not a deal breaker if not.

Other than a Labrador, we've also thought of a beagle or a border collie. I think a beagle would tick the exercise plus social boxes, but I wonder if it would be a bit tricky to train, and whether we would ever get to the point of being able to let it off the lead. I think we wouldn't, and that could cause a problem when out with the tractor. I suppose a dog could stay with me at all times and have walks on the lead, but it is handy having the option to send it off with DP if I'm not well, or have a rare day of not being able to walk a lot.

What other breeds could we consider?

Dalmatians and beagles are both really dumb breeds. If you are farmers you have to have a border collie. In kids' books farmers always have a border collie. Plus they make every other breed look stupid.

That's really interesting about ridgebacks. If I'm honest, I'd ruled them out after seeing a great big guy with one who said 'sorry I'm going to have to let him off his lead because I can't hold him' as he legged it towards our dogs. I thought if he couldn't hold onto one then I'd have no chance! The leggy thing would struggle to sit on the floor of the tractor cab too

If we got a border collie, we'd certainly have colour coordinated pets - this is our current cat

My dad had dalmations when I was growing up. I remember all three being undisciplined louts, impossible to walk on a lead and difficult to train. They may be short haired, but they moulted lots of needle like hairs that worked their way into everything and were impossible to get out still bitter about my favourite blue lambswool jumper 40years later

Golden Retrievers on the other hand......they are easy to train ( food motivated but not quite as bad as labs), active, friendly and easy going. They also have an impressive bark as long as you can't see the waving tail!
If you choose your breeder and get one from an old fashioned working line they are not huge and clumsy either and will work as a gundog. Ours get on well with cats too.
The only downside is yes, they do shed and they have long fur. However, the fur hovers up easily, it's fluffy so sticks on things not in them like dalmation hair plus retrievers have magic self cleaning fur. They come home covered in mud, they go to sleep on their blanket then when they wake up, they are lovely and clean, the mud is all on the blanket.

So you want energy, brains, capacity to at least sound as if some guarding is going on, trainability, possibly a gun dog, and an off-switch?

One of the hunt-point-retrieve breeds (or a cross of same) might suit you - German pointer (short- or wire-haired), vizsla, weimeraner. Very trainable, very birdy (if working lines), very clued in to their humans (deeply affectionate), and capable of collapsing in a heap when indoors. But also a big fuck-off bark.

If those are too big, one crossed with a working-line lab could be the answer. I know a cracking little GSPxlab: bright, beautiful, happy (her owner knows whose doorstep to leave her on if she ever needs a new home....)

Oh, and we have an HPR, who utterly adores the cat. Any other cat would be lunch, but our cat is absolutely worshipped.

Border collie all the way, we have one. Soon to be two. Bright, loyal, keen to please, energetic, hard working, gentle... wonderful pets and devoted to their owners ...

I really really do love vizslas, and I wonder if I've just been put off by one particular pansy of a dog!

I do know a GSH/lab who GinDog adores and whines when he can see her but I don't let them play - she is so unbelievably bounding though but is only a teen, so she will probably calm down.

Weimaraner! I have two, so incredibly affectionate and protective but not overly so. If all is well in the house they settle very quickly, if one of us is away or there are visitors, they want to know what's going on.

The bitch is super clever. And I mean sharp as a tack. She can open her cage (just to show us that she can) but again settles well with something to chew.

Can run forever but likewise, happy with an hour of play in the fields.

One question I have about collies.. do they have a tendency to go a bit....loopy with old age? I know a few that have a warning attached with them because they've gone a bit crazy in their older years

What about a field spaniel? Might possibly be a little small but has all the other traits you desire!

I've never kept them myself but anecdotally the ones kept by friends and family haven't?

Dalmatians can be very prone to losing their marbles due to overbreeding, and our old cocker went completely nuts, unfortunately.

Only dogs I've had have been labs, pointers and spaniels until the ridiculous tiny fluff ball we have now, I just thought border collie based on what you are after. Pointer also a good bet, but collie probably the most likely to keep pace with a patterdale I would think.

GSPs and crosses do calm down eventually. Say at about eight .

TBH ours stopped being a total teenaged lout at about 3 or 4. He would have been much easier to manage on a farm, though. And I'd have another one... in fact, DH and I vaguely planning another one.

This is my toller. He's the best dog I've had. Brought up with labs and had springers. He's been a dream to train, smart, active and an excellent family pet. Does hours of exercise every day by if we have the odd lazy day he's ok with that too.

An Irish Terrier will meet your needs, but probably not the gundog bit

A smooth collie (as in the short haired version of a rough collie, not a smooth BC) sounds like it could really suit.

They're energetic, very intelligent and trainable, make decent watch dogs, aren't too big and have short coats.

Unfortunately not that common but they're fab dogs.

I'm really trying not to be swayed by how cute a dog looks, but it's really bloody hard when they're all so good looking

Okay, so, I think from this thread I really like border collies and labs still, but also Irish setters, tollers, vizslas, plus any sort of cross breed with similar traits. Narrowed down list then

I've joined that Black Retriever page linked above too.

Oh the Belgian Malinois looks great too. Aahhhhh

Our German Wirehaired pointers are full-on, active, intelligent dogs who love to be outside, yet sleep all evening. Coats are easy to keep clean, too. Quick wash with the hosepipe, towel dry and they are done. Really loving, friendly dogs, but definitely bark when needed!

"Oh the Belgian Malinois looks great too."

I think they're possibly not what you're looking for, they're like more intelligent, more driven, more intense German shepherds...they're amazing dogs, but they are very full on.

Smooth collies are an idea though - as clever and energetic as a border collie, but with an off switch. They're pretty rare, but not impossible to find.

Malinois are not for the faint-hearted - not sure if just the physical exercise would do it, they need to use their brains.

Another vote for Smooth Collie.

I am swaying towards a border or smooth collie I think. I just wouldn't want them to get bored if they aren't herding

Smooth collies are lovely but rare as hens' teeth.. fewer than 50 puppies registered last year

And hello to sloth, fellow Toller owner

Here's mine - also the best dog I've ever had