Putting aggressive dog down.

[Blackfellpony]

Not going into loads of detail because it's really identifying but I'm asking whether anyone has any experience of making the decision for your dog if you can't cope with it any more?

Did you ever get over the guilt?

Dog is the sweetest most loving dog at home yet outside is so fearful and unpredictable. We have already had trainers, behaviourists and vets opinions yet it feels never ending, it's one incident after another and I don't think I can manage it any more

Hey we could all support each other by meeting up for a dog walk together!.......Except we can't........oh the irony.

I've got one as well. It is so draining. Mine is six now and tbf has improved substantially from when he was younger, but he'll always be an untrustworthy nightmare with strange dogs. He ran out of the front garden once (gate left unlatched - never again, he's not allowed out the front off lead now) and attacked my neighbour's dog who was walking sedately down the street - there was no damage, but the sound and fury was awful. My neighbour was VERY good about it. He's never been aggressive to people but he's a collie and 'talks' a lot and he grumbles if strangers try to stroke him, which is invariably interpreted as a growl. Also a rescue, never socialised, fear aggressive, lead defensive. Diamond at obedience and agility. Mad crazy wolef.

The amount of loose dogs I have to defend him from is unreal. I wish people would put their dogs on lead when they see another dog on lead, it would make life so much easier. Instead I have to get him behind me and fend them off, otherwise, oh, the sound and the fury...people round here think I am the crazy dog lady and he is a hellhound.

Two is very young OP, he might get somewhat better with age, as mine has. Then again, I would never question your decision to PTS if it's the right thing for you.

My dog is a collie he is probably off a farm collie rescue said we got him at 9 months after he had been returned to rescue from a puppy he is loving but bloody exhausting im the only 1 in our family he hasnt bitten he seems most bonded to me he pines when im not there I do love him but jeezo he is exhausting

Would I put a GSD down for simply barking at a total stranger. No I wouldn't. Can you give any other details OP? Have you reared the dog from a pup? Did you attend puppy classes? Do you spend time, every day, training your GSD? Is it possible your dog homed in on the aura of the stranger and decided you needed protection from him? There is a great deal to consider before having him pts :( The main thing you need to ask yourself is have you provided your dog with enough training and socialisation for him to become a happy, well balanced, socialised dog who is able to enjoy life to the full, without presenting fear to others. If not then you need town the failure.....Sorry!

• to own - not town

Fluffy RTFT. It answers all your questions.

In summary- he isn't just barking though is he? He hasn't bitten because he is muzzled and I am extremely careful with him around strangers and dogs...not because he wouldn't.

He has been trained from day 1 after I rescued him. I have spent £1000s on training so far, one to one behavioural sessions weekly as well as agility, socialisation classes weekly and a group walk every Saturday. It's not like I've just sat and let it happen but he is the way he is.

It's possible he is protecting me I'm not sure but it was pretty shitty regardless of why and shook me up to be honest.

Sorry don't mean to sound blunt there but it's those type of comments or awful look as I'm walking that make me hate walking him, having people automatically assume I have just let him run riot or not bothered when it really isn't the case

He was very well socialised as a baby, I even took him everywhere even to work every day to meet people and try and bring him out of his shell but it all backfired in my face

It's such an emotive issue BlackFell, possibly Fluffy didn't read the full thread. Like myself, when I read the title, I admit to jumping in, with my reply. The fact is, when I was in your situation, I allowed my anxiety to take over, if it hadn't have been for the wise words of my vet, I too may have gone down the road, you are considering. Your boy hasn't actually been aggressive, he has displayed his nervous disposition. You can handle this, you have been handling it, very well. If he has one good run out each day, he will be fine. Get up very early, like I did, take him/them out, and go back to bed if you wish. Maybe you could try to begin leaving him alone for very short periods, with a frozen Kong (gravy/biscuits/paste), or a treat ball, he can roll around, stag bars are good too.
It is very uncomfortable and embarrassing, when our dogs act this way, but there are few text book GSDs, they are high energy, need constant stimulation, and we need to keep on top of their training, always.
Keep going BlackFell, please ... remember, he hasn't actually hurt anyone, it was a very simple mistake, (that many of us make), on your part. 💐

People like to think there are no bad dogs, just bad owners...it's nice, it's reassuring - but it's not as simple as that.

My dog has been introduced by the behavioural specialist (it's a vet btw, just to make the title clear) to someone as - he's the proof that you can do everything right and still end up with a dog with major behavioural issues.

Sometimes genetics win over environmental factors, sometimes the early experiences you didn't know about cause issues you couldn't have predicted, sometimes things happen that you couldn't control and cause issues...

If it wasn't for the heart condition, I'd say he had a chance as a police dog. He's large, aggressive, young and very tuned to his handler.

The trainers would also be able to advise on whether he had a future in society if he wasn't accepted. There's a huge centre in Manchester and one down in London somewhere. If he was accepted as a trainee then he'd have a whale of a time building his own confidence and doing what comes naturally to him.

Look into it?

Gosh what a horrible situation.

However I think you have done everything you can and I think the best thing would be to PTS.

What would worry me is the potential for an accident. My dog got attacked and seriously hurt by two greyhounds which had got out because someone had left the door ajar. People make mistakes, the man was very apologetic and paid the vets bills but it does happen. How would you feel if this happens with your dog and someone got injured?

My old girl was the most friendliest dog you could meet. Absolutely fabulous with people and other dogs.

In the evening I would drive to the local train station to collect dp coming off the train. Loads of people would get off the train and walk past the car. She would stand in the back wagging her tail and smiling at all the people passing trying to spot dp, we had a big estate car.

One evening she started to growl, her heckles rose and she started to throw herself at the window of the car. I tracked her eyes as she followed this guy walking past the car. If she had got out of the car I don't know what she would have done to this guy. As soon as he was out of site she was her usual self although she kept glancing to the corner of the building this man had gone behind.

I thought it was strange but thought no more of it. Until a few days later when she repeated the behaviour. There was this guy again. Every single time she saw him which was only a few times more she repeated the behaviour. Never ever did this with anyone else.

Even the most calmest dogs can take an instant dislike to some people.

A friends dog, who she has had since he was a puppy is on Valium because he has so many phobias and is scared of lists and lists of things. Could this help with his anxiety.

If he is muzzled and his lead is on and his walks are kept to very early or very late at night and you checked out the possibilities valium might offer could this help.

"If it wasn't for the heart condition, I'd say he had a chance as a police dog."

I'm pretty sure fear aggression is not what they're looking for in police dogs, some forms of aggression are trainable for that, but nervous dogs are unpredictable when you're putting them into what would often be stressful situations.

Tabulahrasa is absolutely right. Genetics play a HUGE part in dog behaviour. I hate the "it's all in the upbringing" line. It's so inaccurate.

What stands out to me is your comment about taking him everywhere to bring him out of his shell.

The thing with socialisation is that just exposing them to new experiences is only part of the story. Those new experiences need to be positive. It sounds as if he's always tended to be shy/wary? If that tendency is innate it's an uphill battle from the start 😕

The day I got him he was terrified, cowering etc. He came out of his shell at home but not anywhere else. He has always been skittish outside even as a puppy- think barking at bins or carrier bags that move in the wind that sort of thing.

I was looking at photos of him as a young dog and even they scream nervous at me now, but at the time I just thought with training he would get better.

I battled with socialisation lots when he was younger but he was a magnet for aggressive dogs (maybe because he gave off a funny vibe I don't know!) and he was attacked 2 or 3 times, then again at about 10months which required stitches. He was also bullied by another dog in the family (not mine) which caused him to be even more submissive around dogs, then one day he just decided to go crazy at a dog when it wouldn't leave him and he nipped it.

The people thing has been an issue from day one, he had lots of vet treatment that didn't help and also I have no idea what happened to him before I got him. I thought by lots of people stroking him he would improve but I think what I actually did was made him feel like he has to be aggressive to get rid of people who want to stroke him. What I should have done was teach him that he doesn't need to interact with people and that's okay but it's too deeply ingrained in him now.

He would be no good for the police as he is a huge scardey cat, crowds would send him into a quivering wreck and if someone shouted at him he would panic!

You poor thing. I have had aread through some of your posts. I understand that your dog escaped his lead, raced up to a man, and cicled him while barking his head off. I'm sure it was quite scary for the man. I hope the man knew how to behave in the circumstance, ie standing still, not moving. It sounds from what you write that he compounded the situation. I know it is really hard to behave appropriately when you are afraid, but it must have been terrifying for your already afraid dog. The other thing I wonder about is that your dog circled the man and barked. Had he wanted he would have got a lot closer and knocked the man over. I have been knocked over several times by my lovely hounds, and they give a hell of a whack. So, your dog has good inhibitions in that he didn't actually attack. I think you have had a terrible shock. I really hope you can both find a way forward. There is a time when PTS is the only option left. Are you really that far down the line already? It sounds as though you are doing lots of good stuff. Has anything helped? Behaviourists come in all shapes and sizes. I have come across no end of well qualified behaviourists who, in certain situations have been less useful than a chocolate tea pot. Have you seen someone who specialises in the particular breed of your dog? They might be able to advise where more general pet dog behaviourists are less helpful.

Another one with nothing but support for you. I've got 2 reactive rescues. It's not easy.

They're mostly walked separately, as they're too difficult together. But our home circumstances are different to yours. We couldn't have managed this lifestyle with young babies.

It's quite soul destroying, especially as the worst dog is only 2. We could have another 15 years of this!

We have found canicrossing and biking to work in various combinations, and continual training.

They're super in their own way but it's like a full time job!

Oh and persevering with separate walks was definitely worth it. Especially in the evenings. They know the routine and the naughty one patiently waits for dog 1 to return before going out.

To be honest OP I think your original intention to have him PTS was the right one. I have dogs (and other animals) and always have had and I'd describe myself as a soppy animal lover. Over the years I had one dog, a collie, who was like your dog.

I don't think people understand just how much time and energy (and emotional energy) a dog like yours takes. How you have to plan ahead the whole time and can never relax and enjoy a walk. My collie (who was lovely with the family) finally got a chance to have a go at someone who came to the house unexpectedly to collect his child from a playdate and just went for him out of the blue. It was an adult male and he hurdled the fence to get away. I knew that if that unexpected visitor had been a child, my dog would have bitten them.

He was a lovely dog in many ways but I had him PTS and I have never regretted it. It is impossible to watch a dog 100% of the time as your recent experience showed. One day he will bite someone and GS are big, strong dogs. He will do a lot of damage.

Love him and do the right thing for him.

I think what you have to realise is that fearful GSDs are known to develop aggression at some point so this could manifest itself in the family you can never rule it out. Also to keep a GSD with these issues is also bringing down the breed as a whole. Is yours a white GSD?

It is your choice and it took us 3 years to come to a decision but if your dog hurt and worse case scenario killed someone when you knew he had fear/aggression problems you could have criminal charges brought against you. Sorry to bring this up.

All I can say is as your children get older they will want friendships and I would not be happy to let my child play at a house with a fearful GSD; even though you have the dog contained who would risk this with their child.

Hi OP

You sound a lovely person who had a horrible experience the other day. I just wanted to give another perspective on the thread - but please before I add this don't think I am in any way doing this to make you feel bad because I'm not!

I had a similar experience the other day to what it sounds like the man your dog barked at had. I have grown up with dogs, used to work in a kennels etc but don't have a dog of my own at the moment as I have young DCs. I was in the park early the other morning with a friend as both our kids are going through the early morning waking phase! There was a man walking a large GSD who was muzzled. The dog somehow slipped his lead and made a beeline for us ( possibly because of the children mucking about). He circled us and was barking, lunging etc. My DC are confident around dogs, but luckily did as I said and stood still. My friend's DC is already frightened of dogs and starting screaming hysterically which of course led to the dog becoming more frantic. The dog then began to focus his attention on the child coming nearer. My friend was also hysterical by this point.

Another man walking his dog ran over and the dog then turned his attention to this man's poor dog. He dropped the lead and the dog chased the other one. Luckily before anyone was hurt, including the other man, the owner manged to regain control of the dog.

The owner was devastated and hugely apologetic - explained he walks early, muzzles and always has on a lead but the dog had somehow slipped it. He was in tears. Dog had never gone for anyone before. I suspect the dog probably couldn't have hurt any of us. Even with my confidence with dogs though I must admit it was a very scary experience and it was hard to stay still.

I genuinely had some sympathy for this man and could see he wasn't being irresponsible it was just one of those things. My friend and the other dog owner were less polite it must be said.

Unfortunately my eldest child is now terrified of any dog. His friend hasn't been able to leave the house and becomes hysterical if he sees any dog.

I'm only mentioning this because sometimes even for the best owners accidents happen and they can have consuquences which, if you are out walking in a public space, can affect others. I get the impression from your OP you have this concern and I guess I just wanted to say that is a genuine concern.

You sound a very caring, sensible person who obviously knows your dog well and who will make the right decision if you trust yourself - and by that I don't mean necessarily PTS, more just that you should have confidence in whatever decision you make.

I know very little about dogs so feel free to ignore me. To me it sounds absolutely exhausting to be keeping your dog, its obvious you really love the guy and are great owners.
Buy when he attacked last night, it just broke you. Even after all the time, effort and precautions, even after checking, double checking everything, 7 foot walls, keys, muzzles, double leads and not being able to leave him, even after the training, the money and the constant record player in your head about him, even after all that, he still cant change. I think in that moment you realised that this is your life for the next 10 years and really, what's it all about. If he hasn't changed now, after everything, he never will.
It was like a bolt of lightening, you will never trust him, and you know that for sure now.

Of course its hard to come to terms with that. I don't know what you are going to do, but I just wanted to wish you luck x

Thank you all.

Had a lovely walk with my old boy this morning, it made me reflect on how much I miss just being able to go out and relax without the stress and worry.

Greydidi that sounds awful. It actually happened to me a few years ago (circled by two huge huskys) and I remember how awful it was, so I do understand a little how people must feel.

I still am really conficted. On one hand I desperately want to return to my normal life but on the other I don't know if I can live with the guilt if we are able to manage him. I am confident nothing like this would ever happen again as we have put in place measures to prevent it but the measures mean a total lifestyle change for us!

That's a half life, full of stress for you and the dog.
The guilt if he hurts someone would be far worse, and you will not get any sympathy if that happens unfortunately.

Sorry you are in such an awful position, but take your time, no big decisions need to be made right now. Mind yourself.