Putting aggressive dog down.

[Blackfellpony]

Not going into loads of detail because it's really identifying but I'm asking whether anyone has any experience of making the decision for your dog if you can't cope with it any more?

Did you ever get over the guilt?

Dog is the sweetest most loving dog at home yet outside is so fearful and unpredictable. We have already had trainers, behaviourists and vets opinions yet it feels never ending, it's one incident after another and I don't think I can manage it any more

I agree, I think you are doing a brilliant job of managing him and he behaves perfectly at home and around your family; that makes the decision to PTS so much more difficult.

I think you should have a complete ban on other people trying to stroke him or interact with him because he clearly doesn't like it and it's one of his triggers. That's absolutely fine and should be respected. People assume all dogs want to be petted and that's not always the case. Each dog is an individual and whilst it would make your life less stressful if he was chilled out, that's just not who he is. But you clearly love him and he loves you. The bond between you is strong and that's a very special thing.

One thing I would say though is to be hyper aware of his behaviour around your son, I'm not sure how old he is? But if he's a baby, right now there is nothing for your dog to worry about, the baby is not a threat. However as he gets older and becomes a naturally boisterous toddler/young child, the dog may perceive this as a threat, considering you said he was a complete wimp.

In any case I don't think you have to make any rash decisions, keep doing what you're doing, try and seek out as many safe walking places as you can. Put the dogs in the car and drive somewhere rather than walking the streets. Where about are you? If you happen to live in Wiltshire I would be happy to help you, I could act as the 'stranger' and you can practice walking past with him so he can start to learn how to ignore and focus on you.

We currently have baby gates etc up all the time, he is never left with the baby and most of the time does not react to anything DS does. Right now baby is having a screaming fit and dog is snoring his head off in bed.

I would never leave them alone, or leave DS with the other dog but I do understand the thoughts that he is unpredictable. We have other children in the immediate family and he is fine with them. He plays ball while they are running around screaming etc.

I am not for one second saying I trust him but just trying to explain.

I've briefly spoken to trainer about the incident and she thinks it could be his way of trying to protect us as I did have DS with me, perhaps he felt threatened by the man and was trying to get rid of him (successfully ). I can't say for sure what he was thinking though.

He's strange as he loves attention from people he trusts, he runs up to our immediate family or friends when they visit desperate for attention but bring a stranger in and he can't cope with it at all. It takes months for him to accept someone new.

She has suggested he is not off lead which I agree with and am kicking myself for letting him off yesterday. We have also gone over muzzling etc and she is coming out again next week to discuss in depth and help make a decision which is best for us all.

Sorry just reread a few of the post I must have missed, tropicalfish I agree the man must have been terrified, more so as when one dog was barking at him the other one was leaping about trying to play so it proberbly looked like there were two in on it (dog 2 is pathetic and would have been wondering what was going on!)

I am really concerned about the man, hence posting in the first place but I don't know how to find him and what to say.

I could have written the exact same post. My dog is lovely in the home and to people he knows, but is terrified of everything outside and of strangers. He was fine until he got attacked by 2 dogs one day in the park and the owner of the dogs started hitting them all with a stick. I managed to grab mine before he was hurt but the damage was done and he has been fearful ever since.

We had a behaviourist see him and over the last year and a half we have seen huge improvements, but we too had an incident where he got off lead and ran at someone's dog and was lunging and barking aggressively. Since then I can't walk him. I get so nervous and he senses that and it makes him more fearful. So walking is my husbands job. We don't walk him everyday as it is so stressful but we do lots of training and games in the house.

The kennels he used to go to as a pup refuse to have him now as they are scared of him. However out of desperation when our house sitter fell through in the summer we took him to a new kennels who were amazing with him. They have a special pen for fearful dogs. He let them walk him and had a couple of runs in their field every day. They said he is a lovely dog and that has given me hope for him.

Whatever you decide know you sound like an amazing owner and are doing whatever you can for the best for your dog and your family.

I think you've done all you can. The dog just isn't sound. Honestly, it wasn't nice what happened to then man but I'd let that go. You made a mistake. Everyone does and will do again. If you can keep up the current scenario and are happy to do so then keep him but if not I wouldn't feel any guilt PTS. He's not a dog who can be rehomed.

" I do understand the thoughts that he is unpredictable"

Mine isn't unpredictable in that I know when he's likely to react, sometimes he's having a better day and doesn't...

But in or outside with people he knows well or has been carefully introduced to or outside with dogs that he knows well or if they're calm and he's been carefully introduced (they don't have to be calm when he knows them, but for initial introductions) then he's a friendly, actually over friendly because he sees so few people or dogs up close that he gets over excited, nice dog.

But I know exactly what he's likely to react to and so it's manageable.

One thing that may become an issue though, sorry to add something in.

Your baby will get older and will want friends round to play and then at some point stay overnight...is it going to be do-able to separate the dog effectively for long periods of time? And with children who may not follow instructions?

Mine are a lot older, my youngest was 14 when the dog developed issues, so old enough that she and her friends could be relied on not to open doors when told not to and if DD has a friend overnight she won't let them in the living too until she's made sure the dog is away, but that wouldn't work with younger children.

You're also going to be very limited in terms of day trips and holidays because you can't do kennels or dog walkers,

Those are all things that while not urgent, you will need to factor into your thinking about whether to keep going with the dog or not.

Like I said mine are teenagers, they're not interested in doing anything with me, lol...but is not be happy with having my DC (if they were young) missing out on what are fairly important childhood experiences because of the dog, it's not fair.

It might be that you can plan in solutions that mean that doesn't happen, but they are things I think you'll need to consider.

Before this the plan was to move to somewhere more suitable. We were in the process of finding a house with a separate room/conservatory or something we can make into a dog space for when visitors come so we can put them safely away and DH was designing a dog run so DS can play in the garden away from them if wanted.

Baby is a long way off having sleepovers but it's something that has crossed my mind. I don't want to deprive him of holidays because of a dog

Oh I know that stuff isn't soon

Just, things that'll come up eventually as he's a young dog still.

Thanks tabulahrasa, i appreciate your comments It is something I've worried about as I know realistically he will never be able to be around strangers or children, it throws up quite a few challenges if I am to keep him.

We managed the worlds smallest walk tonight, just round the block. He was very spooky and barky but I actually feel better than I have crossed the door, even just for 5mins. I think I need to find somewhere new to walk that wont make my anxiety worse.

The secure field thing - I take mine to one twice a week, so he doesn't get walked those days and I know it's not the end of the world if he doesn't get a walk the day after it before he's not going to there.

So as long as he's getting walked about 3 days a week it means I can pick and choose a bit whether I feel up to actually going with him for a walk.

I have actually considered not walking him at all, his behavioural specialist suggested it, but my garden is also tiny and other than for those few minutes if we meet something he doesn't like, he enjoys going out.

I am going to hunt for somewhere safe for him to go.
We have our other dog which is also a problem as I still want to walk him everyday but the reactive one can't be left, so it's a struggle between leaving him behind stressed or take him stressed. Not sure what to do for the best on that front?

I too have one docile 'easy' dog and one reactive dog. He's a lovely boy and luckily his problem isn't with humans (he loves them all) it's with other dogs, not aggression or fear but massive overstimulation due to never having been socialised as a puppy (he's a rescue), we have to find remote places to walk and I often drive forty five minutes away to get somewhere that I know there will be either hardly any other dogs or if there are they will be on leads (English heritage property). Madness and I understand how stressful it is. I get that it's restricting your life and that although you love him, you're not happy are you? That's not the way it's supposed to be when you have a dog. There may be an alternative to PTS though. Have you considered Dogs Trust? They do not put dogs down (a manageable heart condition would not be an impediment) and for dogs that cannot be rehomed (for all kinds of reasons) they have the Star Unit which caters for dogs that have behavioural issues. But more relevant to you maybe, they also have The Sanctuary. This is a minimal human contact unit where they can live with other dogs but have the bare minimum of human contact (and the two staff who are there are regulars). It might be worth contacting them and asking for their help and advice.

"so it's a struggle between leaving him behind stressed or take him stressed. Not sure what to do for the best on that front?"

If it was me, I'd leave him at least sometimes...your choice is him stressed at being left or both of you stressed at taking him.

So if you start to leave him sometimes, give him a Kong or a chew or something and start with short periods, chances are he'd get used to it and worst case if he doesn't...one of you is less stressed which will have a knock on effect.

OP, your dog sounds as though he has lots of really good things about him.
My rescue collie cross can be difficult for me to walk, and I need to be constantly aware of possible fear triggers which would cause him to bark and pull towards people.
He is better with DH, and we think that's because he senses my tension.
We love him very much, and he's the centre of our lives: we just do what we need to do to keep him happy.
Hope this all works out for you.

Isitjust it is madness as life would be so much easier if he was gone, but also so much more empty?

My other dog is a sweetheart but we don't have the sort of bond me and this dog have, strange but true. I feel like reactive dog would do anything for me wheras the other one would happily trot off with anyone...that does sound mad I agree though

He couldn't go to a secure unit basically as he adores human company from the people he loves (i.e. Immediate family)
He cries if I leave him alone, he is obsessed with being with my other dog, he would go mad with stress without us alone in a kennel.
Also his condition isn't just a heart one, he has another problem which means he needs hands on daily contact and regular supervision. It's not just a case of medication but much more hands on than that and we or immediate family are the only ones he allows to deal with this . Sorry really vague but it's a really rare condition and would identify me in seconds if I haven't been already!

Kong is a really good idea actually we do have one lying around somewhere!

I also have a reactive dog, doesn't like strange dogs so walk very early where I don't see anybody. Have you looked on dog walking fields they are on facebook and also website, it will give you details of secure walking fields in your area.

"My other dog is a sweetheart but we don't have the sort of bond me and this dog have, strange but true."

I reckon it's because of all the extra work you have to put in, my dog absolutely adores me...he pines if I'm away for a few days with work. He's ok being left, but he's crate trained so he just crashes out, but, he follows me from room to room all day.

Don't get me wrong he loves everyone in the house, but I'm absolutely his world...but in a way I kind of am, I'm doing all the extra training caused by trying to resolve his issues, his walks are all focussed on me and what I'm doing with him because he's not just off lead and sniffing about like other dogs.

I'm sort of all he really has going on, the provider of all entertainment and activity...

It's been discussed (we have weird discussions, lol) if anything happens to me he's to be PTS, because no-one else knows how to walk him and avoid most triggering situations and I'm the only one that can do vet's visits and things with him. It's a weird combination of me taking him to the vets to examine him for them and then me managing to keep him calm long enough for any really really essential hands on stuff, but no-one else would manage it, and he has a lot of vets visits.

There are days where I really resent not having a normal dog...even worse because he's the first one I've had that wasn't a rescue and I was really looking forward to not having any issues to fix lol but I also love him loads and in so many ways he is a great dog.

We have considered moving somewhere rural with a field, he'd be such a fantastic pet if we could, lol

I would love 1 of those fields for my dog none around here there was an indoor place but it closed down he could run about play safely, he only has a 30 minute walk its about all he and we can cope witn any longer and he is angsty and desperate to get home.

God you sound just like me OP! My boyo adores me (well, I am adorable!) and follows me everywhere (tbf he adores all of the family) whereas my girl, the laid back easy one, will go to anyone who shows an interest! Funnily enough I also have the walking problem, but with us it's our girl who can't bare to be parted from boyo and wails and pines if I try to walk him without her. Although she's a dream to walk, it makes it hard having to big string dogs to control. I'm guessing that's a problem for you too? Would it be a bit easier/less stressful if you only had to concentrate on him? Luckily for me my DDs are now old enough to walk our girl (seriously my Grandma could walk her with one finger, she's that easy) which means I can now concentrate on walking and dealing with the boyo, this means less stress for me but also less stress transferred to him down the lead I suppose, it makes it more likely that will have a 'successful' walk. So much better than the days where I had no option but to walk them together. Is that an option for you OP, is there someone else who can walk your other dog at the same time, friend or family member. Or could you afford to have a dog walker come and walk your other dog whilst you just dealt with him on the walk?

Ps know you've already answered this but brain games and training, think BGT style dog dancing courtesy of my DDs, have really helped our boyo. I always thought that long walks were the answer to get the stress out of him and tire him out and then he'd be more relaxed around other dogs. But I found we were walking longer and longer, six miles or so each day, and it didn't seem to be helping. DT behaviourist explained that it was because the walk was overstimulating him and he was coming back worse than before we went out, even though he appears on the face of it to love his walks.

I can't believe how many of us there are to be honest!

I can't find a field near me so far but will keep trying. I'm going to try and do some training with him a few times a week instead.
Not sure exactly what yet...maybe recall is a good place to start

I have asked DH to help more, usually our routine is that he looks after baby while I walk dogs so it makes it difficult to take someone along. I've thought about taking him separately but he is worse without the other dog. I am really going to try and separate them a little though so they can be apart at times, at the moment they are inseparable really so it makes training the bad one really hard (and the other one would like a break I bet!)
I'm lucky in that my other dog rarely needs a lead on, he just trots beside us really so he isn't a massive problem but it does mean I have two to contend with rather than one!

OP, so pleased to read your update: you sound so much more positive.
You just need to find what works for your family and your lovely dog.

"I can't believe how many of us there are to be honest!"

You can't tell how many people there are because we're all walking in weird places, at night and running off at the sight of anyone else, rofl

Haha tabula you're so right. Luckily mine ok with all humans, just not other dogs, so when we went on hols in summer DHs eldest DD and Boyf came to dog sit. We did explain, in detail, the where's and whyfors but the first weekend they took boyo out at Sunday lunchtime - prime dog walking time! - won't bore you all with the details but, needless to say, they never did that again! Midnight and 6am walks ensued after that for the duration!