Putting aggressive dog down.

[Blackfellpony]

Not going into loads of detail because it's really identifying but I'm asking whether anyone has any experience of making the decision for your dog if you can't cope with it any more?

Did you ever get over the guilt?

Dog is the sweetest most loving dog at home yet outside is so fearful and unpredictable. We have already had trainers, behaviourists and vets opinions yet it feels never ending, it's one incident after another and I don't think I can manage it any more

Also try not to worry too much about what happened today. It was an unfortunate one off. He got loose and you won't make the same mistake again

Blackfellpony living with a reactive dog is hard - I know i have one! I too long to have a "normal" dog. My guy is dog reactive but to any dog even a dog miles away. He is now 6 and we can manage most situations - he trusts me and I am aware of what he is capable of and what he can deal with.

I have worked with him and we can compete in agility - but could not walk past a dog in the street without him going ballistic. We have to drive to far off places to walk him to avoid others.

However reading your thread your dog can do loads - the ability to walk him in group walks, and him being so loving and calm at home is an amazing step for a young reactive dog - you must have worked so hard with him.

It can feel very isolating, feeling like you are the only person in the world with a reactive dog and also I know the feeling that you think people are judging you and blame you. Intelligent knowing dog owners will recognise what a fantastic job you are doing.

I run a naughty but nice dog class and see every week how hard the owners of reactive dogs work. Some people are lucky and get dogs that do not need loads of training. Reactive dog owners put in hours and hours of training, they rearrange their lives for the dogs - they all should be recognised for being the awesome owners that they all are.

Your dog may continue to improve but there will always be occasions that will trigger him and to help you be able to live with that you need strategies in place.

You are correct to always use a muzzle and a double ended lead attached to a head collar and a harness.

Waits to be shot down in flames here but a reactive dog dos not need a walk outside every day - they do need stimulation and exercise but this can be done in the garden of the house - if interested I can give you games etc to help with this.

By not walking everyday you can bring down your dogs stress levels (and yours!) and relax and enjoy your dog and what he is good at.

When we go away we get a dog sitter to come to our house - they are under strict instructions not to take the dog off the premises. It is ok for the dog to live within their limitations for a while - after all the alternative is to be cooped up in a boarding kennels for a week!

I also understand you thoughts on PTS and you would not get a flaming from me if that is what you decide - it is a heartbreaking position to be put in.

Do get back to your behaviourist and also the person who runs your group walk - you need support. If I can help at all do pm me as I have colleagues all over the uk who could help you.

and for you. Do not judge yourself you are not to blame for the situation you are in . You are a caring loving diligent owner who is dealing with a hard situation.

Thank you to everyone who has replied.

He can do a lot, at home he is pretty much perfect, he spends most of his day sleeping and playing with my other dog. He isn't aggressive at all. He's really clever and picks things up quickly but as soon as he is frightened all rational thought goes out of the window.

He has come on loads at socialisation and tends to ignore all the people in favour of the other dogs who he plays with. He is a bit skittish when people try and touch him but fine if they leave him, that's why it's such a shock that he has done this today and normally he goes out of his way to avoid confrontation unless cornered.

Win thank you for being so understanding, I haven't made any decisions as yet. I'm more trying to psych myself up to walk him tomorrow or whenever incase I see the man or word has got round
I don't know whether to walk somewhere different or just man up and go and hope if I see him I am able to explain.

It's a shame he can't be 'fixed' and I do know he will always be like this and that's what's scary, potentially never being able to go anywhere or do anything again because of the dog seems silly but then again we are responsible for him and to put him in kennels would cause him major issues so we haven't done it! He does not accept new people easily, it takes months of consistent work before he trusts someone enough to let them around him safely. He generally barks and lunges at someone but has never made contact. I don't think the man today was bitten, I very much hope not but I didn't actually stop to talk to him as I just wanted to get the dog away and run

I have emailed my behaviourist to ask her to come back out and go from there.

Thank you blackbird, we have been using food to treat every time he sees a person so he sees people more positively. We also reward for sitting and waiting which he has been doing really well. I have a young baby and perhaps have been lazy the past few weeks I don't know and he has reverted back?

Did your behaviourist recommend him being neutered?

Most behaviourists will tell you it can make fear issues worse.

No lilcamper, he was already neutered by the time I consulted this behaviourist.
I didn't realise at the time but his behaviour hasn't got worse post neutering, he hasn't changed really.

I wouldn't walk him tomorrow. Play games have fun in the garden. Give both of you time to relax.

A really simple game to play to play in difficult situations is "Look at That". Obviously start at a distance that he is happy when he looks at a person (I would use a clicker) click and the dog will turn towards you and you instantly treat. the idea being that when he sees a trigger he turns to you for a treat rather than go towards the trigger. It is a really powerful tool and if trained correctly can get you out of loads of problems with a reactive dog.

Another managing tool is the "Lets go" game again just practice this in the garden. Walk with dog on the lead and then slip your hand down the lead, turn and walk in the opposite direction. I always say lets go and walk off quickly and reward with a game of tug. "Lets Go" becomes a fun game of controlled chasing of you. Again if you see a trigger situation a quick lets go will become a Pavlovian response and the dog will follow you happily.

Unfortunately LilCamper it is neither here or there why he was castrated - not much can be done about that now :)

I was just trying to gage the behaviourist.

I use LAT myself. Donna Hill has a fab you tube video on the subject.

OP I feel for you. My old APDT and PPG boss is a GSD specialist but she is in Dorset.

I can ask for recommendations?

Thank you both of you. We are up north!

We have been doing something similar in our training. Look at trigger, look back and reward and he was doing well with it. He was not really reacting to people and only really reactive to dogs on a normal walk after 6 months of hard work. He would still lunge if someone interacted with him but generally if they left him he left them alone. This is why I can't understand today, why did he feel the need to do this? I just hope it was all mouth and the man wasn't hurt.

I will try the excersises and look up the training tonight. He couldn't care less tonight and I'm stressed to bits!

We had a very large German Shepard and it sounds very similar. We sent him away for a week of intensive training which cost over £1000 when he came back he was much better but still not right. They said they are so intent on protecting you they start trying to get in first, before there is even a problem. We did similar to you, quiet walks etc then one day we just stopped taking him, it was too stressful for everyone. Eventually a baby arrived in the family and the risk was too great. We had the vet come to our house so it was less stress for him. It really wasn't a horrible process but very sad, we absolutely made the right choice for everyone including him.

Thank you for sharing root. Fortunately he has never been any trouble at all with our son, he is very gentle and affectionate towards him however we never leave them alone together or let them interact unsupervised. If he had shown any aggression to any of us it would be a much easier decision in a way

I wouldn't ever get my dog out down in circumstances I could control and make sure they never injured anyway, I doubt the man will of been hurt if your dog was muzzled, I know how bad a scared gsd can be :/ but as you say you took him with a commitment to look after him. My dog can't go in kennels either. He can barely get his jabs at the vets. I really think the plug in and calming collars help tho. They release hormones that seem to work. I've also found making sure he's got the correct amount of protein in his diet has helped. You're doing all you can really to make sure he's okay. 1 of the nurses at my vets actually has a gsd with issues her self and recommended medication, sure it was some sort of benzo tranquliser, thankfully I'm not there yet

He has a heart problem so can't have any drugs, we have discussed them before but it's too risky.

I wish I wasn't considering it honestly, but I really am struggling keeping two big dogs excersised with a baby when one behaves like this. I don't have any help with walking them as DH works long shifts and its pitch black by the time he gets home. It's also supposed to be me time as the dogs are my time to get out but it's totally ruined by stress and drama.

I try and do as much training as possible but I work and as I said have a baby so it's not always top priority during the day. Sometimes I'm literally rushing out for an hour with a baby on my back and rushing back!

I don't know if the man was hurt, I hope not but he was very angry and tried to follow me as I ran away ( I think!)
Maybe I should look for him so I can explain I don't know? He can pick up sticks with his muzzle on so it's possible he could have been nipped?

I hope things feel better tomorrow and can make some sort of plan.

Hi OP, can you try and relax a little. I understand your anxiety, I really do. I had very similar, with my GSD. Please give yourself a little time to reconsider your decision to PTS.
As you say yourself, you took a chance, and didn't secure your dog, as well as you could have, before your walk. Unfortunately he and you both, are paying the price. Apart from this, not his fault, you are doing great !
He sounds otherwise, to be very well managed, and a joy at home.
He is only 2yrs old, look how far he's come, under your guidance, he loves you. Could you map out a walking plan etc, with your behaviourist.
I walked my boy with a chain collar with one clip, and a half choke, with a clip from the other end, so a double lead, plus a basket muzzle. I also walked him very early morning, or took him away in the car, his recall was fantastic. But like you, I was always on red alert, like a meer cat, bobbing up and down. It was stressful, but we managed, we had an incredible bond.
My boys gone now ... think about it please.💐

Oh i see, could you try these tho??

www.adaptil.com/uk/What-Causes-Stress-in-Dogs/Dogs-and-fireworks?_%24ja=tsid%3A%7Ccid%3A214769317%7Cagid%3A13723056397%7Ctid%3Akwd-13231759327%7Ccrid%3A147863564836%7Cnw%3Ag%7Crnd%3A9498869230891526747%7Cdvc%3Am%7Cadp%3A1t1&gclid=CjwKEAiAr4vBBRCG36e415-_l1wSJAAatjJZ9aXzgJ5sC3Bgk9vRBg0YDpfZcyBAfGeC0vQNUW4OuhoCwaXw_wcB

Or a weighted vest/harness?

I totally get how stressful it is trying to manage a reactive dog and juggle a baby and work, it's exhausting.

My youngest lab was very reactive towards dogs and people on walks (but loved people in the house) from a very young age however she just barked and whined, never any physical aggression, just completely fearful. This all started when she was 7 months old and my son was born. I struggled for a year with her but finally found a good behaviourist and I worked the dog every day. But, my god it was hard work and there were days I was in tears, wished I'd never kept her (I bred her!) but thankfully she has turned a corner and now at 2.5 she is the best dog I've ever had. I can't imagine how hard it must be for you having put in so much work and still not reaping the rewards.

You said you can't ever go away either as you can't get a housesitter which again must be very hard on you. Having said that, apart from his misdemeanour today, it sounds like he's a great dog. I really would consider taking him to the private dog field, even if it's 3/4 times a week. He gets to have a good blast off the lead, no muzzle and you can just relax and enjoy your time with him. It's worth the money I think

Personally I dont think it is acceptable to have a dog which is aggressive. Its not your fault op as you are a nice and decent person as is evidenced by your conscientious response but you cannot have a dog that exhibits risky behaviour. Accidents can always occur, you cannot guarantee that your dog will not escape and that man must have been terrified to be under attack by a massive alsatian.

We had one similar - you have done what you can. Phone the vet, explain the situation and ask for him to be PTS - pay for it on the phone. Most vet's are relieved that people make the sensible decision before any one gets hurt. Take him to the vets and say goodbye - it is heart breaking.

I have never regretted the decision - best for him and the family, and safety of others.

I have RTFT and it seems to me that you know PTS is the right option, but you feel very sad about doing it and are therefore second guessing yourself.

I just wanted to say: if you think it is the right thing to do, it IS the right thing to do. You've clearly tried everything and no one except you really knows that or will understand how difficult it has been and to what extent managing this dog has taken over your life. Sadly this is a decision only you can make, so be brave and have the courage of your convictions. It will be really hard, but it is also the most responsible course of action. Good for you - he is lucky to have you and you've done more and better than most.

Don't be too hard on yourself.

I had an unpredictably aggressive dog which we were able to rehome to a quieter house with no children but quite honestly I do not understand why people go to such lengths to keep some dogs from being pts.
You really cannot live like this and I'm not sure it's going to teach your child much about the joys of dog ownership either.
We have just euthanised our elderly cat (completely different circumstances obviously) but it was a calm peaceful experience, while it was sad she slipped into what appeared to be a very peaceful sleep.
There is a case to be made that he is not happy living like this and therefore you owe it to him rather than to yourself to do the deed.

"quite honestly I do not understand why people go to such lengths to keep some dogs from being pts."

Because having a young dog, that you've had since it was a puppy PTS for a non physical reason is a very very hard decision to come to.

Especially when like mine or the OP's mostly, you know they're happy, they're enjoyable to own, you love them and if you could just exercise them alone that mostly would be always.

Like I said, if/when I get to the point where I'm no longer willing to do everything I need to do to manage mine, I won't feel guilty...but I will still be devastated.

Do you have to walk him? I guess you have to weigh up whether his life as a home/garden dog would be better than no life at all. If he has your company, the company of another dog and a good quality of life at home then maybe that's an option. He won't be physically as fit, but he will feel secure. Would that be enough and take some of the stress off you?

I say this as someone who has put an aggressive rescue dog to sleep, but it was after he hurt someone quite badly in our home.

I had this problem with GSD. He was lovely at home so gentle etc but if anyone came close he would lunge and snap. He never actually drew blood but came close and grazed a couple of people.

I managed him for a few years as advised my the GSRescue which was tiring and I felt anxious all the time as he did escape sometimes. Eventually I had no choice as he pinned down and went for my son (4) when he accidently tripped over next to him. Luckily I was next to him so pulled him away quickly. I don't know if he would have followed through...

I called the Rescue but they wouldn't take him and in so many words said not to feel guilty about having him PTS. I don't regret my decision but it is very sad notheless.

I'm sorry you are in this situation.

Thank you for all of your experiences and opinions, it has helped to talk it through.

I don't think he would attack family, then again the same could be said for any dog. What I mean by that is he has never shown any indication of being uncomfortable at home, it's only outside. Saying that, he isn't left the baby or allowed to interact with the baby without one of us present to supervise. Even so, he has only ever been gentle and shown happy signs when around my son.
He is actually a massive wimp, if you stand on his paw or accidentally hurt him he yelps and runs rather than bites or snaps. When he was sick I injected him 3x daily and he never so much as growled, however if a stranger did it then it would be WW3.

Once he was attacked by a dog and ran screaming, he didn't fight back but he will give dogs lots of verbal abuse if he is walking past

I'm not trying to defend him, I'm just trying to explain why I'm so conflicted.

I couldn't not walk him, perhaps I could find another place to excerisise him but he would need to be walked or he would go stir crazy! We have a small house with a smallish garden, he loves walks and jumps 6ft in the air when he sees his lead. I also have another dog and he would scream the house down if I took the other dog and not him!

maybe I'm biased, but it seems you're doing great managing him and absolutely no need for him to be PST, he's fearful, not vicious by nature which is where my opinion comes from

I don't think he would attack family

With the greatest respect, you didn't think he'd run off after a stranger but he did.

You could have another ten years of this.

You are obviously a loving and experienced owner but dogs are supposed to enrich our lives, not cause so much stress and anxiety. Let him go and concentrate on the lovely dog that you do have. You sound as though you've done all you can and if you weren't desperate you wouldn't even be considering it.

I am sorry for you though. He won't know anything about it.