Putting aggressive dog down.

[Blackfellpony]

Not going into loads of detail because it's really identifying but I'm asking whether anyone has any experience of making the decision for your dog if you can't cope with it any more?

Did you ever get over the guilt?

Dog is the sweetest most loving dog at home yet outside is so fearful and unpredictable. We have already had trainers, behaviourists and vets opinions yet it feels never ending, it's one incident after another and I don't think I can manage it any more

Sorry- didn't want to be one of those annoying drip feeders but was trying to stop myself being identified.

He has been aggressive before but not bitten hence putting the measures in place so he wouldn't get the opportunity. He hasn't bitten anyone but he would have if he wasn't muzzled and micromanaged.

We can't have visitors to the home without locking him up as he is aggressive to them, we can't go on holiday, cant go away and leave him with someone, he's terrified of strangers and strange dogs (he will play once he knows they are okay but not before)

He is very sweet and loving when not frightened but if he is scared that's when he tries to defend himself or us. I spend my life making sure he is okay. He is a perfect dog at home, friendly, plays with toys, is incredibly gentle...he even sleeps with the cats and grooms them. He has never so much as looked at anyone at home in the wrong direction which makes it harder, strangers are a different matter though.

We have used a vet behaviourist who works alongside an apdt reg trainer. Both diagnosed fear aggression. We have been using behavioural adjustment training and positive reinforcement for a year now. We attend socialisation classes once a week and he has progressed to being able to play with other dogs and take treats from people but he can't be touched unless I am there reassuring him.

I am massively disappointed in myself and him for allowing this to happen when I knew it was always a possibility I guess.

Please don't blame yourself, its not your fault. Sometimes dogs are just this way and there is nothing that can change that, no matter how hard we try. You sound like you've tried really really hard for a long time.

From what you have said in your last post, I would put him down because he is scared and its controlling every aspect of your lives and its not fair to you or to him.

I agree sometimes dogs are just like that sadly this isnt your fault what happened just brought it all to a head for you

I think you sound like an INCREDIBLY responsible and sensible dog owner. I am so sorry that you're in this position and I cant imagine how you're feeling. All I can say is that I would consider PTS in this situation and I certainly don't think that would make you a bad person. He hasn't bitten 'yet', but ultimately could end his life in a police kennel in disgrace. Would you rather make that decision now for yourself and remember him for the loving pet I'm sure he is with you? Whatever your decision, I wish you all the best.

I've a very similar dog, he's a rottie and the fear aggression is caused by a painful medical condition, but the same issues and micro management.

If at any point I've had enough, he'll be PTS and I will be sad, but not guilty...it's hard work and I know for a fact that I've put in more time and effort than most people would, so when it is time for me to have him PTS, I won't feel guilty.

Have you got kids who have friends over?

I suppose it's how easily you can segregate him when you have visitors over. My dog was smaller so a lot easier to manage but when we had visitors over he either had to be in the crate (snarling and growling non stop) or on a lead and muzzled. It was stressful.

I can only imagine its worse with a bigger dog.

We spent two years doing all the ignore the bad behaviour, praise the good and he didn't improve. I think fear aggression is that hardest to sort out.

Thank you to everyone who has replied. I don't have anyone in real to talk to, most of them think I am mad and DH adores the dog so he is biased.

He has improved with training but one tiny thing reverts him back to square one. I've realised I can never trust him around strangers and never will, hence muzzle. I knew this before today but it's been a shock I admit as I didn't think he would actively seek someone out. Previously he has only ever barked at people who tried to interact with him, not someone minding his own business!

He does have a medical condition, it's not painful as such but requires daily meds and management. He has had some lengthy hospital stays which no doubt has contributed to his fear of people and being touched. I don't understand why he would run up to this man though? Trying to scare him away I don't know?

We don't have him around visitors full stop. We always ensure he is locked outside. He is perfectly happy and plays with my other dog or runs around until it's time to come in. We have a garden room so sometimes he lies in there.
If my son has other children round the dogs are locked out and to get to the garden you have to pass me and then get the key so it's pretty difficult. We have 7 foot fences and a huge locked gate so they are more than secure. God it sounds like Fort Knox, it really isn't that bad but annoying none the less!

Micromanaging a fear aggressive dog is hard work, stressful and relentless. I don't blame you at all for considering PTS. What aspect of keeping him stresses you the most? Is it walking him? If so, look for a private dog walking field that you can take him to. I have one myself and it is completely safe and allows the owner and dog to have a stress free walk. You sound like you are able to manage him at home by keeping him separate so that's good.

I have five dogs and they mean the world to me, but if any of them displayed severe behavioural problems that were not manageable and were causing me extreme stress in my life, I would PTS.

Walking is stressful. I used to pick up a lead and go. Now it's a rigmarole of waiting for the right time, muzzling, keeping him on lead, constantly watching for triggers etc.
We thought about a private field but it's so expensive here, £5 per hour was the cheapest I could find which would be £35/week as he needs a walk every day. We do go to classes and stuff too which also cost a small fortune and I try to keep him busy but it's not easy.
I was just getting over the worst of it, I thought we were turning a corner but obviously not. We had got to a point where he was sitting and watching while people passed without a meltdown but we are back to square one, he is lunging at everyone and everything again and I don't know why.

His basic obedience is excellent, I don't know why his recall failed today as normally it's 100%.

I hate the restrictions on everything. I envy people who can go to the lakes for a holiday or sit in cafes and drink tea with dogs wrapped around the table!

I too envy people with placid not bothered dogs i get envy when they plod by not arsed about anything

The fact you cant put him in kennels relaxed in the knowledge he will be ok just sounds very stressful

My dog is only a tiny cocker spaniel, but what you are saying sounds exactly like our situation.
It is hard work and scary, must be easier for us as cockers are less scary a presence than a huge alsation. it is a constant drip feeding of incidents and really hard deciding which is the final one, is it now the time.

My cocker has got worse as she has got older, now she is going blind it has got really bad.

I think it is only selfishness that we haven't done the deed.

And where is the breeder in all this? German Shepards are one of those breeds that needs to be bred well and by a competent person or they can have horribly unstable temperaments. They also are keenly in tuned to their owners and he may be triggering off your anxiety to some extent. How is he if someone else like the behaviourist takes him out alone? If he has an unstable temperament then honestly the kindest thing to do is PTS. Just as a word of advice if you choose another dog go for a non guarding breed. Something that won't feel the need to defend you.

It's awful isn't it work

He is okay when walked in a group, better I would say than when it's just us. He is bad when other people walk him too but worst with me. He can't be handled by someone he does not know, he is hysterical...literally screams, barks, wees himself, squirts anal glands and cowers and then eventually goes for a bite.

He was a rescue, I don't know who bred him. I acquired him as a puppy due to nobody wanting him once they discovered his medical condition. He was fearful from day 1.

I have always had GSD and trained many dogs, I've competed in agility etc. I'm not a novice owner, he is my 5th German shepherd. We also have another who is literally the easiest nicest dog I have ever met who is also a shepherd so I don't think it's me as such but I agree I am nervous now.

" I am nervous now."

I find that a bit of a vicious circle, I know he'd be better if I was more relaxed, but I need to be watching him and the environment constantly and to be ready when he reacts...o physically can't do both.

Just do it.

I am a complete novice, who completely skimped on training because "oooh look how cute she is".

You will recover from the guilt, you will realise you had tried everything, and you can't just turn a dog out of the home like you can an unruley teenager, as tough love isn't going to help.

You have been through social services, had all the help available, there are no adoption options, if you re-home you will be even more worried as you had to let the people know the aggressive nature and what sort of person would want a dog like that? well we know one sort and we DO NOT want our pets there!

You know in your heart nothing is going to improve matters.

Is it just fear or maybe something neurological ? He doesn't sound well

You have to look at his welfare too. Living in constant stress and fear is no life for a dog.

And someone I really respect from a behavioural point of view recently said to me, 'Dogs are totally unaware of mortality and therefore have no fear of it.'

Sometimes it is kinder for them.

I wouldn't just do it blossom without exploring every avenue, he is our pet and a member of our family and I took him with a commitment to look after him, he is not even 2 yet and our whole family would be devastated
When he was sick we just hoped he would live, he battled through and survived despite the odds and now I am going to still condemn him, it's like he was never meant to live really when i think about it but hindsight is great isn't it.

I thought it could be something wrong in his head but I spoke to the vet and she was unconvinced as it only ever happens to strangers, never us. As unpredictable as he is I know him well enough to know what usually triggers him and avoid it, she felt if it was neurological it would be lots more random and happen at home also.

At home like I said he is lovely, he plays and acts like a normal dog. Right now he is curled up in bed with my other dog. He competes in agility and attends a dog obedience class every week. We also do huge socialisation walks weekly to build his confidence in which he runs and plays off lead in a huge group and around all sorts of people (muzzled of course) but he is one of the best behaved there.

Ideally I would live somewhere remote with lots of land and no people but sadly this isn't and never will be the case and so I've tried to manage with him the best I can but I'm reaching the end of where I can go I think sadly.

I think the fact that he was a rescue pup speaks volumes too. You know nothing about his breeding, what behavioural traits existed in the line and what kind of environment he was born into.

Some people assume it's never the dog, always the owner. I do not agree with this, I think certain dogs have inherited traits and your dog is an example of this. You are an experienced owner, you have tried every avenue and unfortunately the problem still persists.

With regards to this latest episode, I think he just found himself in an unexpected situation and reverted back to his previous behaviour because in that moment, he was unrestrained, his blood would have been up, you were likely stressed too, the man kicked out at him ramping up the dogs anxiety and it just escalated.

Had it not happened would you still be considering PTS? Could you just chalk it up to a really unfortunate incident and one that you will not happen again? It's a very difficult situation you're faced with and you don't need to make any decisions immediately.

He is only two and is still an adolescent which can be a very challenging time. I'm assuming he is neutered? What do you feed him? If you really don't feel right about PTS and can continue to manage him then maybe give yourself a timescale, let him get to full maturity as in my experience they do start to chill out. You could reassess in a years time?

He is neutered and vaccinated etc.
He is fed skinners, he can't have raw due to his condition as it effects what he can eat.

If this hadn't happened I proberbly would persevere as I felt we had been getting somewhere, but I'm scared of being that person that scares others with an awful dog for my own selfish reasons

Regardless, it will never happen again as he will never be put in that position again but it's stuck in my head replaying over and over. I'm literally dreading walking him tomorrow!

We are the people with the loony dog that spins and froths at cars and wll be your friend 1 day and bark at you the next it is very very stressful

I sympathise because walking an aggressive dog is really stressful. But just try and plan it out so you know exactly where you're going and for how long. Try and stay upbeat so he doesn't pick up on your stress. Walk with headphones in with your favourite music as it will give you something else to focus on.

Have you been shown how to use food for positive reinforcement?