Would you put up with a dog that bites?

[Sweetdisposition91]

Hi,
My dog in question is a 5 year old Rhodesian ridgeback. I've owned him since he was 9 months old, he was very nervous aggressive, aggressive to strangers, hadn't been socialised, dominant etc.
I took him training classes, made him experience all different kinds of social situations (whilst muzzled!) and gradually over time he became a confident dog who enjoys human attention. However, there has always been on going issues and I've never met another dog like him!

He has bitten me various times over the past 5 years, causing me to bleed, scar etc. Although he does growl at certain times, every time he has bitten me he gives no warning, and goes into a frenzy attack where he will grab my arm/hand 3/4 times before he calms down. I have seen some behaviourists with no such luck as there is no specific triggers, although it is predominantly when I try to stop him from doing something or over food if he shouldn't be eating it (but will let me take bones and food off him under a normal circumstance)

So basically, has anyone had any experiences of dogs that unfortunately will always have this side to them? a trainer told me this and said I just have to manage him!

And would you just put up with it?

I honestly can't ever see him changing as it's not just me he has also bitten my mum and brother. I love him so much but it's getting to a point where I am now becoming scared of him in certain situations which I know will never end well!

Please be gentle with me as I feel embarrassed to admit this and I am a responsible dog owner when it comes to walking him etc.

I think posters are annoyed because it seems as though you are minimsing the risk that your dog poses. Not just to you, but members of the public too.

dogsandbabies.wordpress.com/2010/03/27/do-dogs-bite-out-of-the-blue/

You can getting him used to the muzzle with clicker training. Has none of the trainers and behaviourists you have consulted helped you out by teaching you how to introduce a muzzle? It seems pretty basic stuff for a dog that has already bitten numerous times.

You also need to consider all situations carefully. Could he ever break away from you on the lead? If yes, he should be muzzled on all walks as well as on the lead. Could other people approach him or coincidentally come within biting distance? If yes, again he should be muzzled and on the lead. Could someone come into your garden while he is loose (e.g. postman, a child after a ball, someone lost)? If yes he should be muzzled in your garden. Could someone come into your home without your knowledge, e.g. relative or health visitor or carer? You must warn everyone about him.

Im sorry but if your dog has bitten he is dangerous. How do you know he wont bite someone outside the home? You say you put him on the lead as soon as you see someone coming but what if there is food on the floor again he clearly didnt listen to you last time that happened and how do you know the person walking towards you wont try to help you get him back. Its really not worth the risk.

I run at 530am.

I have a neighbour who lets her 4yo run up to dogs. I've explained politely that she really shouldn't let him do that but she does a twinkly laugh and thinks it's hilarious.

So that's another 2 people on your dogs radar who could be bitten.

I feel sick reading your responses op.
It's only a few days since a supposedly safe dog killed a three month old baby and horrendously disfigured a toddler who remains critically ill.
I don't understand the mentality of someone keeping an unpredictable dog, that you're frightened of, that's bitten a number of people already yet despite umpteen pp on here saying pts you persist in making excuses for keeping it.
Yes, that's harsh but I wouldn't want your dog anywhere near anyone else.

I really don't want to debate with anyone else now, like I said im keeping him on lead and muzzle training him And unless things got considerably worse I am not even considering pts at this stage and moment so I'm sorry to disappoint you all!

I didn't come on here asking whether I should put him down or not so I don't know why there is such up roar from me not wanting to as it is a very individual personal decision and an extremely hard one at that.

Well actually you're thread title asked if we would keep a dog that bites

Realistically the answer should always be no

Also every knowledgeable dog owner I have met, trainers etc have never advised me to put my dog down so unfortunately I'm not going to be influenced by random people who doesn't actually know how he is in full.
I don't mean that to sound sarcy and I appreciate your opinions but ultimately it is my decision with my dog and I feel like you're trying to force me into putting him down rather than actually giving me any options and making me look irresponsible for keeping him!

Yes I was seeing if anyone has kept a dog where they've bitten them, and pts opinions are fine but not when they're being forced on to me to do.

"It's only a few days since a supposedly safe dog killed a three month old baby and horrendously disfigured a toddler who remains critically ill."

That's a completely different situation...I know my dog would bite, so there's no way in the world he'd be in the same house as young children, never mind in the same room.

It is slightly concerning that the OP hadn't thought of her dog as dangerous, but, she's said repeatedly that she's going to keep him on lead and muzzle train him, that makes people far safer than from a dog where the owner thinks it wouldn't ever harm anyone.

I have said this already but the victims of a dog bite does not need to be a child for it to be fatal. One torn artery and you have up to six minutes before you bleed to death. To say nothing of pain, suffering, sepsis, infection, tetanus.... Knowingly keeping a dog that bites alive should be criminal.

And OP, remember that the behaviours experts etc are being paid by you and it is in their flat financial interest to tell you to keep working with the dog. You are knowingly risking your life every day by keeping this animal. That is your choice, a stupid choice but yours. You are risking the lives of anyone else in your vicinity also - that I'm afraid is not your choice.

No, you didn't ask whether you should have him pts. You asked whether anyone would put up with: being bitten, scarred, a dog who will only be muzzled when he decides, who has seen several behaviourists without success (or why ask for recommendations for more?) and who sounds to be the one in control in your relationship. And people have said 'no', they would have him pts because they care about what could happen to others around him. You simply cannot guarantee that he won't bite someone else. And to decide that you are no longer going to debate with the very 'random people' whose opinions you happily fought until it became clear that overwhelmingly, they were not going to give you the answer you want, is, frankly, silly.
I truly hope that your dog doesn't bite a stranger, whether they be adult or child, because I have seen the damage a large powerful dog can do and I would not wish that on any innocent person. But I suspect that one day he will, and will cause serious damage. If you are happy to take that risk with your own life, fine. That you are willing to take that chance with other's well being is beyond irresponsible, it's criminal.
How

*sought, not fought.

Nobody is "making you look irresponsible", you have been managing that perfectly well by yourself by walking a dangerous dog off-lead and un-muzzled in a public place. You say you are going to change things now. Good. But if nothing changes, you can't go on burying your head in the sand, because your dog IS dangerous.

" Sweetdisposition91

Also every knowledgeable dog owner I have met, trainers etc have never advised me to put my dog down so unfortunately I'm not going to be influenced by random people who doesn't actually know how he is in full. "

I understand your predicament, but your dog is dangerous. I am a knowledgeable dog owner and I know how "protective" we are over our pooches.
But I feel, I have to point a few things out, some from first hand experience.
A Rhodesian Ridgeback is a powerful breed, that was developed for lion hunting. Being a quick thinker, with a certain amount of aggression, would be valuable traits for a prized hunting dog to survive... that is a far cry from a couch potato! With his DNA he might just not be able to cope with modern life. (Have you considered giving him a "job"? Just a thought, I had a very dog aggressive JRT rescue, but he was the best agility dog I have ever owned. He didn't give other dogs a look, when he was in that ring, while on walks, he would beat up anyone and anything on 4 legs.)

A dog trainer might not recommend what is sensible, because they don't want to upset their client and ruin their reputation in the process. After all, why should they cut off their source of income?

I grew up with a dog as you describe yours- lovely family dog very playful with us, very obedient ... But over a 6 year period he bit & snapped his way around the family. It only happened 1-2 times a year, but it did happen. It was only when he bit someone's finger off (clean bite and certainly not a stranger) that my parents said enough is enough.
As I said earlier on, you are under tension, it's probably subconscious and you are unaware of it. But your dog certainly will pick it up and act accordingly - especially around food.
Ask yourself, when / where is your enough? (I hope, it is before he bites you in a way, that you won't be able to do your job, and go through the pain of operations and a lifetime of explaining "my pet dog bit my hand off....")

I don't want to be patronizing or horrible to you, you have given this dog every chance there is, but I still think he is not the right dog for you.

Ylvamoon - brilliant post

Ylvamoon thanks for your post.
The thing is I'm not suggesting he isn't a dangerous dog, and I'm not naive enough to think it would never escalate like some posters seem to think! I just don't want to put him down before exhausting every possible option first!
I don't know what job he could do? He is such a lazy inactive dog as much as I try to encourage him, I used to do small bits of agility when he was younger but he's had his cruciate ligament op done so prob not wise to do anything too strenuous with him now. What other things could I do with him do you think?
I don't know tbh I guess when he bites although he has caused puncture wounds in my arm, he only ever bites my hand/arm which although I know is completely unacceptable and inexcusable I feel as though if he really wanted to hurt me he could you know? And these bites are warning bites but obviously where he's a big dog they hurt! I realise I sound ridiculous there but if these bites were more extreme I probably wouldn't hesitate to consider pts.
I think maybe I need to establish with him that he can trust and feel secure with me to take the responsibility from him? And avoid trigger situations which when I think about it now, I could probably pin poI think WHY he bites, it's just frustrating that it's only certain times, rather than every time he's in a particular situation. I'm going to listen to this new guy who will come to see us, as he said he will be able to tell me if his behaviour can be corrected through training or if it will never change and I consider pts or learn how to manage and avoid his triggers.
I understand why people keep saying pts but that isn't what I want as he is such an amazing dog the rest of the time, and he is a humongous part of my life, it would absolute devastate me if it came to that.

Yep, it's just all about you. And your dog.

Sweetdisposition91, I rest my case. You already have tried everything- of course there will always be someone telling you they can help. It's up to you, to draw the line.
There are many K9 sports... like agility, obedience, or doggy dancing- the most obvious ones. There are others for "hunting" or retrieving type dogs. A breed club often has links to breed specific activities, it will probably involve some research & traveling before you find what is right for your dog.

If the muzzle does not work and you ever do need to pts, remember it does not have to be cruel. The vet can come to you. You can tell him he's a good boy. Give him his favourite chew. And he goes to sleep.

OP, I understand your love for your dog, and how important he is to you.

However, he has bitten you numerous times and you are frightened of him, in some circumstances at least. You asked 'Would you put up with a dog that bites?' and the answer has come back loud and clear 'No'. And of course that means the dog should be pts, very sad though that is, as he cannot be rehomed.
Instead of facing that, you've become more and more defensive and have played down the dog's aggressive tendencies in your replies. That is not responsible.
You have done your best for this poor dog and shouldn't feel guilty at a decision to euthanize him. As has been pointed out, he wouldn't know a thing and wouldn't be in pain.
Save your guilt for anyone who might suffer from your unwillingness to face what should be done.

" I feel as though if he really wanted to hurt me he could you know?"

Hmm, but he is choosing to...yes he could bite even harder, but he's not holding back if there are puncture wounds - my dog is going to be a similar size, except with bigger jaws and he can carry a balloon without bursting it.

Your dog is biting down, don't kid yourself that he's holding back, he might not be putting full force into it, but he's not holding back either.

I'm not quite sure what the point of a sport would be...it can work with other kinds of aggression because they're focused on the activity, or for a generally stressed and frustrated dog but as this seems to be resource guarding over unexpected items, well you'd have to be actively working with him all the time to prevent incidents.

My experience with behaviourists is that if an issue is outside of their experience or something they're not happy to work with - they'll say so, I've had one turn my dog down as her specialism is fear aggression and she wasn't happy that that was what he was displaying.

So if it's a properly qualified registered professional you're seeing, I'd expect them to act like one and not work with you if they know that either it's pointless or they're not the best fit.

"that isn't what I want as he is such an amazing dog the rest of the time, and he is a humongous part of my life, it would absolute devastate me if it came to that".

What I want, my life, deviating for me. How bloody selfish. You are putting people in danger every single day for your own selfish wants. You know it is wrong, otherwise you wouldn't have asked the question you did in the OP. Believe me, you could be far more devastated by the next attack from this dangerous dog than anything you would feel from doing what you know is the right thing.

I often walk at 5.30am ish so me me and my boy be on radar

Something to think on if your dog bit another or someone then your be liable to be sued to as he has history and chances are any insurance will wiggle out

TBH by sounds he will need be muzzled all times when he is out and when people around (if just you then that is your choice

What have the trainers said in pass ?
Presuming he had check that not in pain