A Man kicked my dog this morning

[ExitPursuedByABear]

I was horrified! Yes, BastardDog is dog on dog aggressive, but it is all bark and no bite - (sound and fury signifying nothing).

I was marching up the canal towpath trying to keep warm, when my dog crouched down into 'play' position and I saw two big bouncy Munsterlanders approaching. Their owner was a long way behind. I see these dogs regularly and chat to both the man and woman who own them, on several occasions. I always call my boy back and put him on the lead until they are passed and have discussed with them the reasons why. Today I was concerned that I had seen them too late, but bless his soul, my boy came back when shouted so I put him on the lead and crossed over to the other side of the canal. As we passed I joked with the man that they would all have ended up in the lock if they had met and he said something about tossing a coin.

I carried on walking but a train went past and my dog likes to chase them. As I turned round I realised that the man had crossed over behind, so my dog ran into his dogs as he was chasing the train. They had a sniff then a fight broke out at which point the man started shouting "I'm not having this". I shouted my boy and he came back but went ahead of me. I walk with a stick so was trying to catch up with him to put him on the lead but the man kept on walking in the same direction, quicker than me and caught up just as I was about to put my dog on the lead and another fight broke out. At which point the man kicked my dog in the belly making him yelp in pain.

I asked him what he thought he was doing and he said he didn't want a vet's bill. Then he said that dogs will be dogs and it shouldn't affect our friendship. What fecking friendship? I marched off with him shouting after me that it shouldn't affect us. He then shouted that I had ruined a lovely day .

Not sure why I am posting really. It just really upset me. I make every effort to avoid other dogs. I know he had every right to cross the canal and walk in the same direction, but I still don't think he needed to kick him.

Stupid bastard.

aprilanne's son's dog is a puppy though.
It probably will get off lead time when its older with good recall.

Aprilanne, I know this is off topic, I don't know how old the pup in question is, but massive long walks might not be a good idea.
The breed is meant to have a walk of 5 minutes per month of age until 1 year to protect their joints.

Being offlead isn't a default thing though, it's conditional upon whether it's safe and appropriate to have a dog offlead.

A dog that will approach other dogs and bark at them (whether it will scare the human as well or not) isn't appropriate, so in a situation where that's likely to happen, the dog should be onlead.

I'm sorry, but if your dog is aggressive with other dogs, he should be on the lead whenever other dogs are around. It's really not fair on everyone else. I don't condone the man's violence, but done people think of their dogs as children and would do anything to protect them....so overreactions should be expected if your dog runs up and behaves aggressively. I do feel for you, it's no fun keeping a dog on a lead....we had an aggressive dog once and he had to be muzzled and kept on a lead at all times.

YY your dog (that's dog, not boy!) should have been on a lead the whole time. Of course the man shouldn't have kicked him but he would not have been kicked if you had been controlling him properly

Sorry about your bad encounter OP. Did I understand right in that you walk your dog off lead next to a train track?

I do feel for you, if my dog was kicked by someone I would be livid. However, looking at it from the other perspective, if another dog was attacking my dog, what would I do? I would try and break the fight up. I wouldn't want to get my hands in between fighting dogs, so yes, I'd probably use my feet. You say he is all bark and no bite, but how is anyone to know that?

It really does sound as though he needs to be on a lead at all times.

To be honest I think he should have been on a lead.

My DS is now terrified of dogs (after absolutely loving them) following an incident on a beach where a dog off the lead jumped up and bit him at the age of 3

I'd be very upset if someone kicked my dog - that in itself might be a vet's bill, too. But I can see it from his POV as well. Nothing justifies the kick but having had other dogs offlead, being aggressive with my old dogs when they were on lead and fully under control - and then be caught up by breathless owners whining that "He was only being friendly" or words to the effect it's all sound and fury signifying nothing... Heard it a million times, TBH, and I never believe it. Why should this man?

I'm firmly in the camp of your dog should never be offlead if you don't have a very good recall. And from what you say, your's may not be as bombproof as you think it is.

I am astounded that you let a dog aggressive dog off the lead anywhere near other dogs. It's hugely irresponsible as your dog or the dogs he attacks could be hurt and even if they are not each fight will set your dog back in its training.

Perhaps the guy should not have kicked your dog but you should not have put your dog in a position where it could get kicked.

As for having your dog under control off lead you clearly do not, otherwise there would not have been a fight. If you insist on having your dog off lead around other dogs why don't you at least muzzle him?

I've been the dog kicker in this situation and I don't regret it.

Three little terrier type dogs started attacking my rottie who was on the lead, the owner was shouting from across the park to no avail, so I tried to kick then away.

Why? Firstly, believe it or not I do not want my dog to be attacked.

Secondly, I could not guarantee that my dog would not bite back. If you have a dog off lead following yours around no matter how you try to lead yours away, there is not much else you can do.

Although my dog seemed scared more than anything else, I did not want to risk my dog ripping one of these dogs to shreds. The man probably thought that if your dog attacked first, it would not win and so tried to get your dog to back off.

It depends.

When he kicked your dog was he still in fear that his dogs could be attacked again?

Or when you called your dog and he ran past you. Did the mans dogs stay near him and he then marched over just to kick your dog?

If the latter then he was being very unreasonable. If the former I can understand how if someone was scared that their dog was going to be bitten that they might kick them. I'd kick my own dog in such a situation!

Oh I know I am always in the wrong in these situations, but I have met the man several times, he saw me recall the dog, cross over the canal and let him off the lead as there were no other dogs on that side. Then he followed me. Of course he is free to walk wherever he chooses, I was just surprised.

The train track is not really accessible.

If he had kicked him to separate them, called me a stupid bitch and marched off, I would have understood.

It was the 'dogs will be dogs, let's not it affect our friendship' comment, then repeatedly shouting after me that got my back up.

Yes, dogs will be dogs so let them sort it out.

And we are not friends.

I am actually more on exits side on this. If a dog attacked mine and was recalled and went away, I would wait until that dog was back with its owner. I WOULD NOT charge after it passing the owner, thereby insighting another fight.

Yes Exit maybe shouldn't have let her dog off, but the man could have avoided the 2nd/3rd situation. It probably is a matter he thinks he knows best and a good kick will sort it out.

And those that screaming hysterically about it could be a child - it wasn't, and nor is it likely to be. I think exit knows her dog quite well and works very hard to work with its issues....children aren't one of them.

Exit - put it up to experience, we all make mistakes.

Sorry but you shouldn't have had your dog off the lead - clearly he's not all sound and fury signifying nothing if there was an actual fight.

Dunno what you expected the man to do? There had been one fight, another one broke out - if I'm reading your OP right?

I love my dog - but years ago I was in a position where I was walking my very small terrier on a lead (because his recall is crap when there is any distraction!) and another dog attacked him. I dropped the lead, grabbed toddler DS and screamed. A man came out of a house and kicked the larger dog. My dog had to have tons of stitches and antibiotics = he'd been bit right on the back of his neck. Very frightening and very expensive.

It was a barking fight, not a biting fight.

Thanks Mrslaughlan.

But the other man doesn't know your dog. And you know he's aggressive around other dogs. And you don't have great mobility to catch him. And he clearly wasn't under your control.

Sorry but I genuinely do think you're in the wrong.

I'm sorry you're upset though and sorry the man was shouting at you.

Exit - I'm not unsympathetic, my dog is a complete nightmare with other dogs and because I can't trust him just to make noise or in fact that his muzzle will prevent him from hurting another dog due to his size I have to manage him very very carefully.

But your dog wasn't under control and you can't rely on other owners to keep out of your way or letting dogs sort thing out themselves.

For starters you have no idea how other people's dogs react to being barked at...they might ignore it, they might bark back, they might well react quite badly to it.

Like I said, kicking him seems OTT, but, sorry, yes, it was your fault that his walk was ruined.

Can I just check? Your dog had two fights/barking incidents with the owners dog - you acknowledged to the owner your dog was aggressive and you are surprised that the owner protected his dogs. His method was inappropriate but not unsurprising.

I do see where Mrs laughan is coming from but life with reactive dogs is not fair It must always be the owners responsibility to keep their dogs safe and prevent them from being put in a position where these days they can be prosecuted. There are a lot of dog walking numpties BUT it is always the owners responsibility to prevent incidents. Most reactive dogs owners need to be hyper vigilant and go out of their way to prevent incidents - my issue is always with the he just wants to play owners

I rehablitate reactive dogs and have to choose where I walk them carefully. A canal would be a very hard area as it is usually hard to move away from people as you are limited by water on one side of you!

There are strategies you can use when walking reactive dogs if you want any help just pm. Sorry that you had a scary walk though it does sound like a horrid incident.

He was totally unreasonable to have kicked your dog.

But Exit, come on, why have you got a dog aggressive dog off lead in an area where other dogs are walked? It's completely unacceptable and you should know that.

I'm sorry but this absolutely and utterly boils my piss, and if your off lead dog had had a go at mine, even a barking fight, then you would have got an absolute earful from me. I am absolutely and utterly sick to fucking death of aggressive off lead dogs spoiling my dog walks, to the point now that I will walk at completely antisocial times or drive for miles to try and avoid the idiots who do this. It COMPLETELY ruins what should be a perfectly relaxing and enjoyable experience for me and my dog. I do not give a tiny shiny shit if your dog needs the off lead exercise, if it's dog aggressive then for the love of God keep it on a lead.

"I do see where Mrs laughan is coming from but life with reactive dogs is not fair"

It sucks tbh...if anything ever happens it's always your dog's fault, because you're the one with an 'aggressive' dog, even if your dog was perfectly under control until they let their dog come over and behave rudely.

You need to think about where you can walk and when and what you're going to do if you spot a dog coming.

You can't even have a little passive aggressive moan if another dog does make yours kick off because that quite often gets you a load of abuse about how their dog is friendly (I once made the mistake of saying, a sorry would have been nice to a friend walking with me, it did not end well) in fact just dealing with your dog and minding your own business can attract full on rants from other owners. (Thankfully not often, but, it happens)

On top if that is the stress involved anyway, that's not much fun either and of course knowing that every time something happens you may well have undone weeks worth of progress.

But, you can't assume that other owners will display common sense - far too often they just don't seem to have any. It absolutely has to be up to you to control your dog, because there's always the possibility that in a worst case scenario you'll be legally liable and it could be your dog that pays the price for that.

But didn't exit say that she had chatted to these people and they knew the reason why she put her dog on a lead when approaching them? So the man knew her dog was dog aggressive but probably knew as well it was all bark and no bite. So I think he should have avoided you when you chose your path. There are 2 red setters on one of my walks who have in the past chased my lab, he tries to get away and has tail down so is not enjoying the chase (he usually does). So if I see them I go a different way and shrug shoulders. I think the man was OTT but you perhaps could have kept a better look out.

You might think you know your dog Exit but as pps have said you cannot predict how it will react in any given situation, even though it may have behaved a in a predictable way for some time.

My dog is quite passive and if another dog sniffs her will usually lie down and let it sniff.

If another dog takes her precious ball she can get a bit cross but will usually just look at me as if to say 'get my ball back'.

A couple of weeks ago we were in the park and a large puppy would not leave her alone. He was in her face barking and bouncing around and not taking her low level growling as a deterrent as we went on trying to play.

After a good deal of this, and it it went on for a long time - she suddenly turned and started almost screaming at him, she's quite high pitched - in fact I thought he'd hurt her as she will scream if trodden on (she's not very big) but it was a really aggressive growling and snarling - teeth bared - from her; at which point I grabbed her harness and got her away from the situation; had they been left to get on with it I think she might have attacked him and then she would probably been badly hurt.

I was flabbergasted. She's 3.5 and she's never ever behaved like that before or since. But clearly, given enough provocation even the mildest mannered gentle dog can become aggressive.

You can't know what your dog will do at any given time, and a dog on dog aggressive dog must absolutely always be on the lead and under the owner's control if walking where they are likely to meet other dogs.

Having said that I'm sorry you're dog was kicked, it must have been very distressing to see you dog hurt. Hope he's okay.

How horrible for you Exit. Surely any sensible person who saw someone trying to get their dog under control would keep their distance, especially if they had been warned. It does seem remarkably arrogant of the man to just keep catching up when your dog has come back to you. What a horrible fright for everyone. Narrow paths are a bloody nuisance with off-lead dogs. They invite conflict. It sounds very much like an accident.