My dog has bitten my toddler - new home needed urgently or PTS within 2 weeks

[lil88]

P is a former rescue lurcher dog is 7 years old and has been with us for over 3 years and been in and out of foster homes before we had her. It was not until we had her for a few months that we found out one of the reasons she was given up for fostering was because she has bitten a toddler climbing into her bed. She also has nervous aggression with other dogs which was only apparent after a few months with us and still suffers from separation anxiety. To cut a long story short, My husband and I were fortunate to have a baby nearly 18 months after we had homed P. With a young baby to cope with we knew it would be difficult to give P the attention she needed and also we had some concerns about the risk of P biting the baby at some stage and therefore had her up for rehoming at EXXX where she came from. However we have not had any one interested and despite our attempts to enquire with other rehoming centres, we have drawn a blank as they have either told us, to return her to EXXX, she was a difficult dog to rehome, or they had a long waiting list. Further EXXX has not come up with an appropriate foster home for her nor will take P back. Our baby is now a 23 months old strong minded child and she and P always compete for our attention. Indeed our LO can be rough with P who has generally responded with baring her teeth at our LO or run away from her. We have tried to tell our LO to be gentle with P otherwise she would be bitten but she does not listen. Things came to a head on Sunday, when my LO was bitten on the wrist by P after when our LO had patted her quite strongly and lost her balance and fell on P. This took place at the doorway of my kitchen. This incident has not fazed our LO and I only fear that matters will escalate. I am afraid that our LO's safety is our priorty and although P is not to blame for the incident due to the nature of our LO, we can not risk any future incidents which could end up with a worse result for my LO. We have decided that if P can not be taken in by one of the dog charities, we will arrange for her to be put to sleep in 2 weeks time. So can anyone provide a kennel or foster home or home P. We are based in Worcestershire.
This has also been posted in Lurcherlink appeals for help

Midori, have you considered the possibility that a 'suitable home' just isn't available? Not now, and quite probably not in the near or distant future?

Also, just googled lurcher and tbh i would imagine these type of dogs would be able to clear a stairgate without much problem.

Most dogs can clear a stairgate without any problem. All of my own dogs can, none of them do/will. This dog is not exactly laying in wait to jump a stairgate and attack a child, it is trying to avoid the child, the stairgate is to prevent the child getting to the dog, not the other way round. Plus, you can get 'dog gates' which are higher than normal stairgates, although plenty fo dogs could still jump these if they wanted to.

And yes, as I said, homes for dogs like this are few and far between. Homes for any dog are few and far between, there ar ejust too many. However, it's about living up to your responsibilities, isn't it? Obviously the OP doesn't want to put her child at risk and rightly so, she has already shown that she isn't willing or able t0 alter or control the child's behaviour or work on getting the dog to be happier around the child. Physical seperation is not time consuming, it doesn't require much more than minor life adjustments and means the dog can stay until a home is found, which yes, may be a long time, but the upshot is, the dog gets to live and perfectly happy life.

Midori - sorry I think you are brig completely unrealistic and blinkered.

Really? Why?

I am trying to analyse my response here. I suppose the lack of apparent regret in the original post set me off.
If I ever had to take the decision to put my healthy dog to sleep i think I would be a lot more in pieces.
Not saying that the OP should be should t for being strong minded.
It would have helped me understand it a bit more if it was clearer that this had been thought through more, a lot of effort had been put in to solve the issue, was an agonised decision and was a little less "find a home or PTS gun to dog's head".

"should be told off for being strong minded". Fast typing on phone!!

we have 3 dogs, a lurcher (nervy but very well behaved), terrier (looks adorable, not good with children) and a greyhound (loves kids but huge). I also have a 10 month old baby who loves them.
They are NEVER, EVER left alone together or in as position where LO could cause harm or get herself bitten. the dogs and child are seperated by stairgates and will be until such a time that LO is old enough to learn how to handle them properly.
I love my child, and i also love my dogs. A few years inconvinience is well worth it in my book to make sure everyone is happy and safe.
Have read a few of these posts recently and tbh, it really saddens me that people put an animal who doesn't understand in this sort of position. Not to mention safety for the LO.
They are ANIMALS, not stuffed toys.

I feel my earlier post was a little harsh to the OP. I live in an area choc full of chav "status" fighting dogs, where some children have been bady bitten. Dogs are used as potential weapons round here, as penalties are lower than carrying a knife by a small minority of ignorant barstewards.

Often had to use my own dog to help reassure and train very young children and toddlers re dog saftey as a result. (There are chidren who are terrified of dogs for good reason!) It's a sad necessity around here if you want to be able to go to the park (& like many inner city areas most families don't have gardens).

I actually blame the orginal rescue for this situation. It's just not fair to give a nervous dog with a history of snapping at a child to a novice dog owner, and then refuse to take the dog back when the new owner becomes aware of the dog's history.

A successful rehoming is I think totally dependant of full disclosure & honesty by all parties. Rescues spend a LOT of time criticising breeders, but need to take a harsh look at why people often still prefer to spend a fortune on a pup rather than one of their offerings. I say this as the proud owner of my 2nd rescue dog, both times the charities involved have been explempary in their dealings with me.

A Lurcher is a cross breed of a sighthound with x or a mix of sighthounds.

class="underline">sphotosd-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/401239_10150504604341531_1265447091_n.jpg These dogs are both Lurchers There is a clear size difference. One could clear a stairgate with ease. One probably couldn't. Niether would. Mainly all they want to do is sleep in peace.

OP did not say what her Lurcher was a crossed with. It could be the size of a small terrier or it could be crossed with a great dane. Either way it has sighthound in it meaning it just wants somewhere quiet and safe to sleep and a short walk each day. My tiny lurcher snaps if she is disturbed from sleep or cornered. We don't allow her to be disturbed or cornered. No one, child or adult has been hurt by her.

OP, you don't say anything about how your DD is, how badly injured she was by the bite? I'm assuming then that it was just a little nip that actually didn't cause any damage? Sorry if I'm making a wrong assumption here.

Obviously you're right to worry that it could have been worse, and might be worse in the future, and of course the safety of your child has to be your top priority. But if I were you I would see this as a big wake-up call that you must carefully supervise all dog/child interactions, and keep them separate when you are not able to do this. In fact if your child has been 'rough' with the dog before, and he's responded by baring teeth etc, that was a warning sign that things were not OK, and should have allowed you to prevent this bite ever happening. A toddler being allowed to 'strongly pat' a nervous snappy dog is surely asking for trouble.

I don't think this dog should be 'PTS', there is no need for that. I think you can keep both child and dog safe and happy if you're prepared to put in the effort. Obviously if a suitable child-free home can be found via rescue, that's ideal, but unless/until that happens he is your responsibility.

ImNotAnsweringIt
That was a very good post, and certainly food for thought.

I had never thought about the issues surrounding no kill rescues, but would certainly have no hesitation about having a truly aggressive dog PTS. I hadn't thought of the knock on effects, that filling the rescues with these dogs may mean that other dogs are PTS.

There was a programme on BBC recently where they trailed the police dog response unit for a few days. It was heart breaking to see healthy and well natured dogs being PTS. One was wagging its tail as the vet put it on the table. It still makes me cry when I think about it.

Getting back to this thread, and this issue.

I don't think the OP has been harshly treated - there were a few nasty comments, mainly before she came back to clarify the work that she had done with the dog.

Most were simply upset that a dog should be PTS because it nipped a child who was irritating it, and the OP did not seem to be making the effort to keep the child and the dog apart.

I agree up to a point about 'no-kill' rescues. If the no-kill policy means you have to turn away dogs who then get PTS by the owner or the pound because you couldn't take them - well, either way a dog is dead. It's an issue close to home for me, as my older dog had to be rescued from the RSPCA who had taken him from a terrible situation and prosecuted the owner, but were going to put him to sleep after the court case as he was 'unhomable' (no he wasn't). But in a way I can't blame them, after all most dogs like him don't get homes, and I can't take them all.

I'm reluctant to criticise either type of rescue tbh, as there is no way they can save every dog in need, it just isn't possible. The rescuers I know work incredibly hard for little reward or thanks, and do the best they can for the dogs.

I remember that programme MmeLindor, it was a lovely friendly little bull-breed puppy, as I remember, PTS simply for having the wrong measurements and therefore being deemed 'pit-bull type'. Still wagging its tail with happiness at having human company and attention, even as they were putting the needle in. Absolutely heartbreaking :(

There are childfree homes where dogs are adopted - ours is one, and in fact I'd say the majority of rescue homes either have no children, much older children or DC have left home. Perhaps the MN demographic skews the perception, but the majority of households don't have young DC in them. One of our dogs is very nervous around children and would never have been homed successfully with DC - however, the rescue was responsible and waited for the right owner to come along (us) and he is living very happily with us. We are regularly visited by children in our wider family - DC are drilled very seriously on every visit on safe dog behaviour (the only thing I am strict on) and dog has got to know them and is now considerably more relaxed. Even so, we are very vigilant.

This case sadly illustrates why many rescues have blanket policies of not adopting to families where there are children under 5, and for asking about plans for a family (recently criticised on here as being an invasion of privacy). We were asked (politely) at our homecheck about plans for DC - it really is a sensible question, and one that good breeders will ask too, since the arrival of DC and managing the toddler/dog relationship is so often the trigger for dog abandonment.

The rescue concerned seems to be getting a bit of a pasting, would be interesting to hear their take on this story, particularly as they are a well regarded organisation that I have previously only heard very good things about.

OP, as you are in the Borders area, and I know which rescue you originally dealt with, if you are serious about rehoming, please try

Greyhound Rescue Wales

or RGT South East Wales (Greyhound Welfare)

or even Greyhound Rescue West of England (they cover most of England now). All three of these charities do take in lurchers, and might possibly be able to help you.

Please PM me if you require further information about any of these three organisations ( I do a lot of voluntary work for two of them) and have many further contacts in the sighthound fraternity.

This dog really does deserve better than the needle.

My parents also foster and have adopted dogs into a child free home. Funnily enough they actually have a lurcher who was rehomed for biting a small child and showing aggression towards people and other dogs.

She happily interacts (with constant and vigilant supervision) with their DGC, although my children have very clear and firm rules on how to interact with any dog, not just fear aggressive ones, that includes never approaching the dog. If they want to fuss over a dog they must always call the dog to come to them. They've actually helped to build up the confidence of this lurcher, by behaving calmly and kindly around her and showing her that not all children want to pull on her tail or sit on her or behave roughly with her (which is how the first bite, that resulted in her being rehomed with nervousness issues occurred)

It's not been easy, but was managable and my parents were both happy to work her with her to give her the second chance she deserved.

Dooin, agree. One of the loveliest things about rescue is sometimes you meet with dogs who are nervous for all sorts of reasons (not necessarily child related) and over time these issues can be overcome and dog settles into becoming a much loved happy family member. As with any dog, time spent in training is never wasted and pays back so richly.

And teaching good "dog manners" is essential for any child, whether or not there is a dog in the house.

I think anyone who posts on or reads the doghouse regularly would know of the problems I have had with Devil Dog. Had he been in a rescue and not a pound, and had he been assessed prior to rehoming he would never have been placed in a home with young children or cats or men.

As some posters here will know I have poured my heart and soul and much of my disposable income into making the situation safe for both the dog and the children and the cat. Not so much DH

There have been times in the past when I felt that giving up would be easier for both the dog and myself (although rehoming or killing him was never an option, by giving up I mean realising and accepting that he will always be a dog that needs 'managing' and would never be fully trained or trusting of children and strange dogs)

Recently he has repeatedly shown me that he gets it. He finally gets it. He is no longer a Devil Dog, but a happy, well adjusted, well socialised, balanced dog.

I cannot even begin to describe the sense of pride I get when he curls up on my lap (something that was previously unthinkable) or approaches one of the children for attention, as opposed to just tolerating their presence. Or when he walks past a dog or a horse without reacting.

He sat with his head in dd2's lap last night and would not leave her side all night because she had been away for a few days. This is the very same dog who would growl at and then hide from children when he first came to us, only ever showing a glimmer of trust in myself and spending much of his time hidden under desks or in crates, quite happy to avoid interaction with people.

We still need to work on his powers of invisibility and the dining table, but, hey, no one is perfect

He is no longer my problem dog, but actually the better behaved of the two

Watching him trust in people and behave how he knows he is expected to, certainly makes all the work with him worth it and kind of makes me want to go and find another devil dog, to do it all again.

People like me and Midori and Scuttle who are willing to put this time and effort into a dog are by no means a rare breed. We are out there, waiting to help dogs like this. The problem is there are just so damn many of them, we often already have one or two that we are working with.

A dog who has snapped or nipped or shown aggression is not a lost cause in 99.99% of cases they just need time, patience and understanding and a handler willing to put their all into helping them.

This is a very sad situation for all concerned. ImNotAnsweringIt's reply was one of the most thought provoking things that I have read on MN for quite some time. The thought of the pound dogs being pts just because their 7 days have elapsed is so sad.

It is a short time but if I lost my dog I'd look hard. Dog Warden/Council/Police (who, while no longer dealing with strays, should refer to DW) would be somewhere I'd try in less than 7 days. It takes a few minutes. Better still, collar and tag (legal requirement) and up-to-date microchip.

When you say you took the dog in and tracked down its owners; who from and how did you track them down?

Thanks, yes it was fairly common for dogs to get out when being looked after by others. Tragic if they had a tag, so a Notice was delivered to the house (Notice of Seizure; a legal requirement if address is known), no one claimed the dog or got in touch so potentially the dog could have been PTS before the owners knew anything about it. I didn't know this to happen; it was sometimes obvious if a well looked after (and often expensive looking) dog came in that this may be the case.

I do recall a dog being re-homed via a rescue centre after 3 1/2 weeks in the stray pound, then the owners returning from holiday. They got the dog back but very hard for the new 'owners'. Not sure they forgave their dog sitter friend!

Temporary holiday tags are a must!

what a hijack, so sorry OP, I'm rambling.

Believe it or not a lot of people do not realise we still have dog wardens and wouldn't have the first clue on how to go about properly looking for their lost dog or who they should be contacting.

Especially older people, who might not be so computer aware.

My Dad has helped track down a lost dog, who was in the pound, for an elderly couple, whose only way of finding their dog had been to contact the police (who told them they no longer care for stray or lost dogs and left it at that ) and then walk the routes their dog normally walked in the hope of finding him and to advertise in the classified setion of the local paper.

Fortunately they bumped into my Dad who was willing to help them and took their contact number and later went on to find the dog in the pound. Had they not encountered anyone willing to help, their poor dog would likely to have never been found.

7 days is not long enough. Especially when you factor in holidays, dogs being lost in different counties due to be being cared for away from home or stolen and then later dumped. Sickness. Or just general lack of awareness of services available.