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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

so I went to see some pups today and it was awful :-(

410 replies

AllergicToNutters · 11/03/2012 16:59

They were living in rank cages outside on concrete floors. The smell was horrid. There was Dad and a Portuguese pointer in a cage, Mum was sooo skinny and looked as if she had been bred and bred. The pups looked healthy enough but the one remaining pup ( so I had no choice in selecting one for us) was shaking and whimpering. He was absolutely beautiful but I didn't take him. I felt awful. The pups were kept in a shed away from the other dogs and Mum. They were clearly not 'indoor' dogs. Very sad and don;t know what I can do.....Sad

OP posts:
D0oinMeCleanin · 12/03/2012 22:20

Yes it is. This is the dog that runs fear through the hearts of most of my family (well my mum and my sisters Grin)

misdee · 12/03/2012 22:23

yes chickens, he takes care of poorly children for me. he cuddles up with them when they fall asleep on the sofa.

but if hubby tries to sit on the sofa, he does his upmost to shift dh off the sofa, so he can spread out more Grin

misdee · 12/03/2012 22:23

oh what a devil he looks there Wink

ChickensHaveNoLips · 12/03/2012 22:24

Hmm, seems like quite a few of us have crossbreeds/mutts who aren't super dogs. Who'd a thunk it?

ChickensHaveNoLips · 12/03/2012 22:25

Jasper shows serious jealousy issues if I cuddle DH. He will get between us on the sofa, and then lick DH's ear until he runs screaming from the room. DH has a thing about ears.

misdee · 12/03/2012 22:25

is jasper stinky again?

i need to thornit ralphs ears tomorrow.

ChickensHaveNoLips · 12/03/2012 22:30

As soon as the bum dragging starts, I squeeze. At the moment, it's weekly, and it might be that way for all of his life. Neither of us particularly enjoy it, but it takes 20 seconds and then he's happy, non-stinky and non-infected again for a week. Good job I love him, eh?

herladyship · 12/03/2012 22:33

I have a cocker/springer cross, I wanted to name him 'sprockett' in honour of his genetic roots but dh vetoed my suggestion as 'naff' (he has no taste Wink)

He was bred by a friend of a friend who own both parents. of the 5 in litter they kept 3 as working gundogs and only sold our pup & one other. They will not be breeding again in near future. Since then (mainly via the doghouse) I learnt a lot about the politics of dog breeding, but Im still happy with our decision to buy our fab little doggy & feel his breeder (whilst some would call them byb) was as responsible & as ethical as possible in the world of dog breeding

we also have a rescue dog (x breed terrier) and will stick to rescue dogs in future as puppy ownership has given me grey hair Grin he is 15 months old now & a delight

ChickensHaveNoLips · 12/03/2012 22:35

herladyship, Jasper is 8 months old and some days I want to put gin on my cornflakes.

herladyship · 12/03/2012 22:40

Grin at the gin on cornflakes

fraser has just started agility class which makes him wildly excited to the point where his eyes seem to revolve in his head!

rest of the week he is a chilled out little chap with a passion for chewing shoes...

misdee · 12/03/2012 22:50

Agility classes? That would require effort from ralph so no chance here

readyveg · 12/03/2012 23:51

I have three pedigree rescues. I love their pedigree diversity, I know one will probably live at least 40% longer than the other two. I know the two biggies won't live for more than 8 years in all probability. It's a negative, although not really for them they tend to be healthy then to develop a condition and be soon gone. The healthy little dog may well spend it's last few years getting old, blind, deaf, lumpy, arthritic... My friend's mongrel (lots of collie) is on year four of advanced old age, not much fun for either of them.

I have pedigree dogs because I won't be considered by most rescues as have been pregnant or with small children when looking. Breed rescue is more accommodating and as much as I love all dogs I do love the breed traits and differences. Dog diversity makes them more beguiling. Not that my ilk tempered anti social oiks show their breeding.

Flatbread · 12/03/2012 23:54

Red,

I have ordered the book, thanks for the recommendation.

You have some very thoughtful points. I do wonder how the modern designer cross breeds - e.g. labradoodles will play out from a genetic diversity and health perspective in the long-run? It seems to me, in these cases we are taking two pure ingredients and creating a cocktail.

But the cocktail will always have the same ingredients and be susceptible to the set of genetic problems besetting the two breeds. Since recessive genes can skip a generation or two, I wonder how much of testing is done by breeders, and does this lead to further culling of the gene pool? (Also, will future labradoodles mate with other labradoodles to perpetuate the breed...and with what genetic consequences?)

However, if a labradoodle mates with another type of cross breed, and the subsequent generation mates with other dogs, and so on, then we have greater genetic diversity and these mutts/mixed breeds will be healthier on average.

The more random and diverse the mating pool, the lower the risk of genetic disorders. But the downside, like you mentioned, is that people will not necessarily know the size and energy level of the pups beforehand.

feesh · 13/03/2012 05:47

I was born with hip dysplasia and I was the result of a random mating :D

And for the third time, Flatbread, HOW DOES NATURAL SELECTION OPERATE IN THE DOMESTIC DOG?!

swallowedAfly · 13/03/2012 07:13

as to not needing a pedigree i see your point but at the time i decided i wanted to get a dog my son was 3, i had a cat and i had never had a dog before since i was a little kid.

i needed a dog that was robust and usually good natured/tolerant/saintly around small children (obviously no guarantees but you can at least improve your chances), i needed a dog that would be easy to train and not have too demanding characteristics or traits for a first time owner. i did my research. despite having always loved collies i resisted their allure because they are known to be very intelligent dogs who can be very destructive in a home if not properly trained and stimulated and the collective knowledge about that breed was instructive in informing me that it was probably not a wise idea for me to do get one as my first dog and when i had a small child to take care of.

in the end i got a labrador. it wouldn't have been the dog i'd have chosen if i went with my whims or on aesthetics but on investigation it seemed to be the best breed for my circumstances. i went to see a litter and resisted the very active and assertive madam who was determined to come home with me and climbed all over me and chose the puppy who seemed a bit quiet and a little reticent but upon a bit of careful fuss and... connection iykwim was playful and sweet and i could see would be confident without being too mental.

she was the one who had been handled the most by the young child in the family so she was a) used to children and their intense loving and b) the most human-relationship-orientated. so firstly i chose a breed by the collective long standing general knowledge that we have about that breed and then i chose a puppy from the litter by her temperament and how she'd been handled with reference to our needs. that allowed me to get a very good idea of what kind of dog i was getting and to have the best chance of making dog ownership a success for me, my son and the dog.

i also then have an awareness of potential problems with the dog i've selected - for one thing with a lab being very careful about not overfeeding and training her to be very responsive to praise and fuss rather than only to food and to make sure she gets lots of exercise and develops a joy in running that is equal to her joy in food Wink

it has turned out perfectly for us - she is a fabulous dog - has eons of patience with my son and children and the cat and is very soft but at the same time has a very active, playful nature and loves running and playing with other dogs who she is great with. she's clever and has been fantastically easy to train - perfect off lead in the fields from as soon as she had innoculations. loves huge long walks and active days but can easily cope with lazy days sleeping peacefully in her bed and only getting short walks or none at all on a day where everyone is ill and it's pouring with rain. i will stop praising my pfb dog now but seriously it has worked out perfectly for us and i really believe that is due to having researched and picked a suitable breed and then having made a sensible selection of which puppy to take home.

Flatbread · 13/03/2012 08:53

Swallow, great you found a lovely dog that suits you family. I am not judging people who get purebreds.

But what I was pointing out is that this whole emphasis on going to so called responsible breeders is not to the benefit of the dog species. These breeders perpetuate purebreds mainly, and while they might try to mitigate some of the problems associated with the breed, they are still culling the gene pool, with serious health implications for future generations.

Imagine the extreme scenario where we all got dogs from these 'responsible' breeders. There would only exist a carefully selected pool of purebreds and fashionable cross breeds. And as genetic testing increases, more would be culled from the breeding pool and from a select number of this smaller pool, the generations be bred. And from a smaller subset, would the next and so on. Do you see the issue here? We are reducing genetic diversity. This is ultimately to the detriment of the dog species.

(As an aside, bichon breeders are being urged to breed dogs with known health defects because a dog and their genes are more than the sum of their hips or eyes, and you don't want to lose the diversity in 'good' genes which might happen if you only focus on culling out the potential defects)

The maligned mutt, born from generations of random selection is the most genetically diverse and on average, the healthiest. But they would not exist if all dog reproduction was controlled by breeders.

Feesh, random mating is a or b in what I listed above. It may not seem random to you because in (b) owners are making a choice. But it is random from a genetic matching/ diversity perspective. Especially when done over time and over generations.

AllergicToNutters · 13/03/2012 09:03

blimey - I didn;t expect this debate when I started the thread! GrinGrin

OP posts:
feesh · 13/03/2012 09:14

Flatbread, I thought you were a scientist! (a) or (b) do not natural selection make!

Labradorlover · 13/03/2012 09:38

Prehaps mongrels are healthier in the short term because generally they aren't used for breeding further generations...........but what do I know, I've got Labradors so I'm not a dog lover according to Flatbread Hmm

MiseryBusiness · 13/03/2012 09:58

I think its been said quite a few times but Flatbread's idea of natural selection doesnt work in domestic dogs, it can't work.

I may be missing something but as dogs are now domesticated it would be nigh on impossible to just let them all breed with each other to create a superior gene pool, it just can't happen.

So then we're left with not breeding any dogs, ever. Then the dog population die out? Is that a better idea than trying to promote responsible breeding and making dogs as healthy as possible?

Allegric - Have you found any more suitable puppies? Did you decide to report the ones you saw the other day?

EdlessAllenPoe · 13/03/2012 10:07

"A lot of people want pedigrees. It's one of the main reasons people give for not getting a rescue dog."

i think this is a sign of a lack of knowledge about dogs - pedigree dogs can be got through rescue - you will find many in generic rescues, or through breed rescue....

EdlessAllenPoe · 13/03/2012 10:13

mongrels aren't healthier.

though generally mongrels are small dogs, and has been said, smaller dogs live longer...

labradoodles and the presence of hip Dyplasia amongst doodles is a classic example of why crossbreeding is no replacement from well-informed health testing and breeding programmes. you wind up with dogs that (although as good a pet as any other dog) don't have the promised quality (ie non shedding) and are then vulnerable to the health problems common in two lots of dogs rather than one...

it is perfectly possible to breed a lab or poodle with a coefficient of inbreeding about the same as that of the average wolf.

EdlessAllenPoe · 13/03/2012 10:15

i will affirm again - most people don't need pedigree dogs. a Heinz 57 will make as good a pet.

Give one a home :)

LtEveDallas · 13/03/2012 10:21

Oh Allergic, I'm glad you came back. Your thread has made for some interesting discussion Smile

Did you see my question way back up there?

OP an awful lot of rescues have dogs in Foster Homes that may be closer to you, and some are willing to move dogs to foster closer to potential owners to check suitability. We had MuttDog moved to a foster 2 hours from us, rather than 6 hours to the rehoming centre. Have you tried that?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 13/03/2012 10:35

So, Flatbread, when you said, "...Basically you want a designer dog, you don't care about dogs and their welfare, only your gratification...." to me, about my decision to get a purebred labrador, that wasn't you 'judging someone who'd got a purebred'? Hmm