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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

so I went to see some pups today and it was awful :-(

410 replies

AllergicToNutters · 11/03/2012 16:59

They were living in rank cages outside on concrete floors. The smell was horrid. There was Dad and a Portuguese pointer in a cage, Mum was sooo skinny and looked as if she had been bred and bred. The pups looked healthy enough but the one remaining pup ( so I had no choice in selecting one for us) was shaking and whimpering. He was absolutely beautiful but I didn't take him. I felt awful. The pups were kept in a shed away from the other dogs and Mum. They were clearly not 'indoor' dogs. Very sad and don;t know what I can do.....Sad

OP posts:
BeerTricksPott3r · 13/03/2012 18:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MiseryBusiness · 13/03/2012 18:34

I agree D0oing. I may bang on about how much I love Dalmatian's, own them etc. I love all dogs, whether they are purebred or not.

My best friend has a Lurcher and he is fab.

PineCones · 13/03/2012 18:43

I think the KC has a lot to answer for in promoting standards in certain breeds that make no sense from the perspective of the dog's health or wellbeing. So to some extent, even a responsible breeder, if they are breeding pedigree dogs, are perpetuating the problem. This is obviously a much bigger deal for bulldogs, shar pei, Pekingese, king Charles spaniels and the like, rather than Labradors or cockers.
The only distinction is- where the dog is being bred selectively for a look (sloping hipped GSDs and flat nosed pugs for example) it's a problem, as opposed to for a temperament.

I don't know how one can make the distinction except I know that I wouldn't go for a breed where its looks caused it health problems.
Having said that I have a rescue who is a breed, but not a pedigree, and already showing signs of bad hips. I love him to bits and it breaks my heart that he will suffer in the years to come.

PineCones · 13/03/2012 18:46

Oh dear. The thread had moved on. Which I now see Blush
So, mine's eaten tiny glass bottles. Obviously they had to be surgically extracted.
No prizes for guessing the breed.

RedwingWinter · 13/03/2012 18:48

I agree, Dooin.

But I would be sad to see all purebreds die out.

Pinecones that sounds painful and expensive.

PineCones · 13/03/2012 18:49

redwing all I'll say is, god bless petplan. They bleed me dry but they came through Smile

swallowedAfly · 13/03/2012 18:51

yeah, i absolutely adore king charles but i don't think i can in good conscience ever buy one. wish i could find a rescue one that didn't get snapped up the minute it appeared. thought i'd found one yesterday, rang as soon as i saw it and it had only been online for a couple of hours and it had already been found a home.

i know, i know i shouldn't care what breed it is. but i have my lab and for a second dog i think a little dog would be good for number two and i know the breed and like them. most small dogs in rescue are jrts that usually come with a can't live with cats or children under x age warning.

swallowedAfly · 13/03/2012 18:52

you all make me feel quite lucky with my lab - she's never eaten anything that needed surgically removing - at 15months she'll eat any food going but nothing non food.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 13/03/2012 19:10

Our lab eats all sorts of poo. In fact the list of things she's eaten is long and heroic - everything from steak and salmon steak to the aforementioned poo, by way of 15 mince pies, raspberry turnover, apple cores, broccoli, sprouts, cheese, lots and lots of butter, several tiger loaves - and her best effort, 4.5kg of dried dog food! She looked like a hairy brown barrel on legs after that last feat of gastronomy. Though there is a mumsnetter whose dalmation ate 10kg of dog food, plus the bag. And a child's potters wheel and the clay, on another occasion.

Ddog2, who we think is part wiemeraner, and is incredibly long-legged, can reach much further onto the worktop than ddog1, but her best effort was to lick a toad. Yes, I did say lick a toad.

She came in from a walk and started dribbling furiously, and when it didn't stop, we took her to the emergency vet (why is it they don't do this sort of thing during regular surgery hours). She checked in the dog's mouth for shards of stick or bone (as in Whippy's case), but found no injuries, and as it is the wrong time of year for toadstools (the other major culprit for hypersalivation), she said the most likely thing was she'd licked a toad.

That new hobby cost us £140! Luckily we have pet insurance, but even so, we hope she finds other, less toxic things to lick!

Slubberdegullion · 13/03/2012 19:31

Thank you for answering Flatbread. It does sound quite lovely and utopian in Iceland, certainly not having and overpopulation or stray problem would be wonderful. Having owners lined up for your pups before you put the dog to the bitch would help with this I'm sure.
Sadly of course we do have a huge problem with unwanted dogs in this country. I'm still musing on the best methods for overcoming this.

I had to google as back in the corners of my brain was one of those weird pub-quiz facts that dogs were banned in Iceland. Turns out it was only Reykjavík and the law was changed in 1984. They do have a KC now so I guess some icelanders do have pedigree dogs now.

I'm not anti-mutt either, the unknown quality of what sort of dog your puppy would turn into, and whether I could meet its needs would be a worry for me though.

D0oinMeCleanin · 13/03/2012 19:40

Oh I wouldn't want to see pedigree breeds die out. I'd like to see less of them but I'd like to less of any dog breed, mutt or not, until the situation in rescue is under control.

The only thing I want to die out is irresponsible breeders, people who believe that indiscriminatly breeding more unwanted puppies can be anything but a bad thing and possibly the kennel club.

EdlessAllenPoe · 13/03/2012 19:50

"So for most of us although we don't need a dog to actually survive, they can for some tick boxes further up in terms of 'things that humans psychologically need'"

absolutely, though i think more people own dogs than can give them good homes

BeerTricksPott3r · 13/03/2012 19:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RedwingWinter · 13/03/2012 19:52

That's an interesting fact, Slubber.

Flat, I also thank you for your reply and explanation. I think there is a difference, though, between pedigrees from puppy mills and those from responsible breeders, and I suspect that is a confounding factor in those studies. Actually I would be interested to know if there is any empirical evidence looking at that. If you've read those papers and they took the source of the pedigrees into account, please let me know.

I have just been wondering idly whether the people who breed dogs to be assistance dogs could subsidize their breeding programme by also breeding said dogs to be pets, since they would are breeding for temperament. But as I understand it they can't tell as puppies which ones will make the grade, so they would probably think they were wasting resources. (Plus of course to do it properly there wouldn't be any money in it).

This is a funny thread. You have to be able to discuss genetics and eating poo in the same breath.

RedwingWinter · 13/03/2012 19:53

Dooin, we're on the same page (literally and figuratively).

peeriebear · 13/03/2012 20:54

My mutt (the aforementioned part Staff, definitely part Lab, part GSD) ate our turkey crown at Christmas. We had eaten barely a third of it and the greedy greedy ARSE ate the LOT overnight. I thought I had put it way out of reach and clearly had underestimated his determination. It was big, heavy, solid meat, good quality from a decent butcher. I was furious and still nurse a secret grudge about it now. He was shitting through the eye of a needle for days.

Flatbread · 13/03/2012 21:09

The studies look at pure breeds as a whole. While responsible breeders might mitigate some of the impact of a shallow genetic pool, the incidence of genetic disorders will on average always be higher than a diverse genetic pool.

Regarding my dog, i was the first one to say that i am guilty of contributing to the dog population. We can home the pups ourselves (even Gracie now, since our builder asked if he could have one of our pups) but were strongly urged not to do that and go via DT, who have a waiting list of families needing puppies.

If overpopulation of dogs is the major concern, then imo, no one should breed dogs. This is how I rank irresponsible behaviour

Puppy pure breed/designer dog farms - most irresponsible . Increasing number of dogs, worsening genetic pool

People who buy designer dogs - directly or indirectly incentivising dog breeding and puppy farms when rescues are full

Responsible pure breed/designer breeders - increasing number of dogs, perpetuating a shallow gene pool

Mutt breeders - increasing number of dogs, increasing genetic diversity

People giving up their pets to a shelter - increasing number of dogs in shelters, could be mitigating circumstances like owner died etc.

People who adopt dogs from shelters and do not breed - most responsible and win the dog champion award of the year

saintmerryweather · 13/03/2012 21:12

I wasn't aware that icelandic sheepdogs are classed as mutts. I thought they were a distinct breed in their own right, all of a spitz type. Silly old me.

I don't like the way labradors, collies, JRT, staffies or any mix of these breeds look. Since this is mostly whats contained in rescues, if I want a dog I will either go to a breed rescue and get me a purebred dog of the type I do want, or I will buy a puppy from a KC assured breeder, who doesn't churn out litter after litter, who will take the dog back if I am unable to care for it and who health tests their dogs. I'll make sure (by checking the pedigree....very easy to do) that the dog's ancestors have not been line bred, and I will make sure that the dog is likely to be of decent enough quality to show, and to do agility, as well as being a good pet.

I'm actually shocked that flatbread thinks she is a responsible breeder.

EdlessAllenPoe · 13/03/2012 21:20

those studies are rubbish as they fail to look at the human component.

how much people spend on their dog at purchase is a possilbe indicator of attitude to Vets bills as well...

and dogs are usually identified as 'closest breed' when they see the Vet, so non-pedigree dogs are recorded as pedigrees. So, my friends rescue GSD type dog that spent the first year of its life chained to a wall and has terrible stress problems (surprise surprise) is a 'pedigree dog' for Vet, but nothing of the sort in fact...

daisydotandgertie · 13/03/2012 21:41

Message poster Flatbread Tue 13-Mar-12 15:08:34 Lol, personal attacks. Refuge of the clueless.

I know I was on the end of an unwarranted personal attack up thread somewhere - and accused of hypocrisy to boot for owning 4 pedigree Labradors.

I am sticking with my responsibly bred pedigree labs, I need their skills, honed over generations to do the work we do together.

I know of a number of Labrador breeders in Iceland, along with a thriving working, showing and competing scene; and all those pedigree dogs are registered with the Icelandic Kennel Club. They clearly don't have just one pure breed and lots of mutts.

Clueless? I wonder which one of us is.

swallowedAfly · 13/03/2012 22:01

wow so for buying a labrador i'm only one degree less evil than a puppy farm owner in your eyes?

and where do people who let their unspayed bitch get pregnant? am i worse than one of those for buying a lab?

AllergicToNutters · 13/03/2012 22:09

swallowed you are obviously evil personified. We all are. We should be eternally damned. Shame on us for not getting a cross breed from someones 'accidental mating in their back garden Shock

OP posts:
ChickensHaveNoLips · 13/03/2012 22:16

Where does 'unintentionally bought a pup from a deliberate cross breed mating by scummy puppy farmers' rate? Because I can tell you I certainly feel worse than if I had bought a pedigree dog from a decent breeder.

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 13/03/2012 22:23

I keep lurking on this thread, and have just read Pinecones post re the KC.
It made me think of this article. Maybe things will change for the better.

D0oinMeCleanin · 13/03/2012 22:29

What about accidentally acquiring a pure bred puppy and then accidentally keeping it instead of finding a rescue space?

Or going to breed rescue?