Having to sell puppies....

[Emmerybored]

and its breaking my heart. We had planned to sell them when she got pregnant but then she only had 2 and decided to keep them.
I have since got a job and know its not fair to have 3 dogs in the garden all day so we decided to sell.
Its horrible i love them so much already (they are nearly 10 weeks old)
just felt like a rant

i generally only pop onto the doghouse these days as too busy and ralph the dog takes more work than the children.

steven was born this year :) so yes you must've missed that one.

he is crawling now, and trying to get at the rainbow rice i made today for play.

Bloody hell. I should know that. Or did I and have forgotten?

I can remember you being pregnant, but thought you had another girl. How are the girls, do they like having a wee brother?

they love having a little brother.

maybe you remember me being pregnant with dd4? this is all of them anyhoo

Oh, they are gorgeous. Great blog, didn't know you had one.

trying to get back into blogging, but finding it hard. havent written much since waitingforthecall

"Ephiny
You state that a rescue should be a last resort, if the owner really cannot keep the dog. But if anyone has posted on here that they are going to rehome their dog privately, they get flamed. Not quite sure how that goes together - not trying to get at you, just looking for clarification."

Sorry, that wasn't very clear - I definitely don't think rehoming privately is usually a good idea. But sometimes I think people are too quick to say 'oh, just put the dog in rescue' as though there was unlimited space and funding. It's not always that easy, there are often long waiting lists, and even if your dog does get a place, they're taking up a space that could perhaps have gone to a pound dog, for example, who will now be killed instead.

What I'd see as the ideal situation is more people taking responsibility for their dog (and any puppies they allow them to have) as a lifelong commitment, even if it means a struggle and an inconvenience to them, even if it restricts where they can live, even if it means they don't have as much money or can't advance their career as well. Which is why I tried to make some suggestions to the OP about ways she might be able to keep her pups. I don't know of course whether any of those suggestions would work for her, not knowing her full situation, and I don't expect her to explain herself on here. But I do know there are so many dogs in rescue for stupid and unnecessary reasons, where the owners could have kept them, but just didn't want to or chose to prioritise other things first. So in that way I wish people would see it as the last resort, not a magic solution to any dog-related problem.

firstly, there are lots of irresponsible breeders and lots of irresponsible owners. That is surely not in dispute here. However, to suggest that someone does not care about their dogs if they A allow them to breed or B do not use a rescue to rehome the puppies is just patronising. Equally to suggest that all dog owners who buy a puppy are being irresponsible because they are A not rescuing a dog and B fuelling the backyard breeding trade.

Of course it is not ideal to let your pets breed if you don't have suitable homes for the offspring. But equally, ending up with a litter of puppies doesn't mean you're going to rehome them all to uncaring, unfeeling people who will end up abusing them. And similarly buying a puppy from someone who is not necessarily a registered breeder doesn't automatically mean that you're funding someone's puppy farm.

Of course there are things you should look out for when you're buying a puppy. I've seen adverts in the free ads papers for puppies for sale with "will deliver" on the ad - no-one in their right mind would surely want a puppy from somewhere like that. But equally when I was a child we got two puppies from people who didn't appear to breed for purely financial gain - this was just their dog who had happened to have puppies and they had sold them. As I said further up the thread, it was common when I was younger.

I would personally never take on a rescue dog. That is to say I would not actively seek to do so, purely because you never know its background whatever the rescue might tell you. I've known far more people who have taken on rescue dogs and end up with nightmare behavior/agression/destructive tendencies that they were either never made aware of or that simply hadn't manifested itself while the dog was in kennels than anyone who has taken on a puppy.

WRT to people not feeling comfortable posting here, it's IMO not good enough to slate them for posting that. It doesn't matter whether some people feel they get support here, if there are people who feel that it is too intimidating/agressive here and that they would not feel comfortable here (and there are enough of them on this thread alone) then surely those who regularly contribute here ought to question why people feel that. There are enough people that feel like that to indicate that it's not all them.

Thanks, Ephiny. That is clearer.

What I don't understand though, is this "go to a rescue to get a dog, don't buy a puppy", but if everyone did that then the puppies would end in rescues too.

Maybe the UK should look at other countries to see how they deal with this. Here in CH, there are strict laws about breeding dogs. A private person is only allowed to let a dog have two litters.

'I've known far more people who have taken on rescue dogs and end up with nightmare behavior/agression/destructive tendencies that they were either never made aware of or that simply hadn't manifested itself while the dog was in kennels than anyone who has taken on a puppy.'

There are puppies in rescue centres. Tiny puppies. Because people don't neuter their dogs. The pregnant mothers are dumped. Have a look at this rescue.

They have pups and lots of dogs between 2 and four years old that were kept to breed from. They were often kept outside and not even given names. They have to learn how to play. The rescue has them because they're no longer of use to the breeders. They'd be killed. A hell of a lot of them are rescued from Ireland.

I see what you mean MmeLindor, about the puppies ending up in rescue instead! Though ideally people should not be breeding in the first place unless they have a reasonable expectation of there being homes for the pups, and are prepared to keep them themselves (or take them back) in the case of things not working out, at least until another home can be found. And I can imagine most rescues would take quite a dim view of a breeder trying to offload puppies onto them that they'd been unable to sell!

Interesting to hear about breeding laws in other countries. The more I think about it, the more I think this is the root of the problem - just far too much uncontrolled, unrestricted breeding, resulting in far more dogs and puppies than there are good homes for.

I agree with MmeLindor - way too much aggression on this thread and on this topic in general for it to be either accessible or helpful.

Do we have to have a "I never post in the doghouse it's all too bitchy" thread every single time a misguided/uncaring/irresponsible (delete as applicable) owner comes along expecting sympathy?

The doghouse section is very supportive, but will not support cruelty or anything which could endanger a dog or puppy.

Well said Dooin

In here, and a lot of the other threads where people get honest answers (I'm not talking about nastiness) people over-react when they don't like the answers.

If you know people are going to disagree with you and you aren't ready for it, either don't post or strap on a pair FFS

Dooin
I realise that MN is a place for straight talking, but look at the first posts on this thread, and tell me that those are proportionate responses to the OP.

"Really?"

"I do hope you are not serious, OP"

It is well known on MN that if you ask about rehoming a dog, you are going to be flamed. And if you ask about what kind of puppy to buy, you are going to be berated for not going to a rescue.

And I were to have seen this kind of response on any other topic, I would have posted in defence of the OP, even in AIBU. I hate the pack mentality (no pun intended) of MN sometimes.

It is this kind of response that gets MN the "nest of vipers" reputation. Do you know how many blogs and newspaper articles there are about bullying on MN?

I was not flamed when I rehomed one of my dogs.

I agree with MmeLindor. I read active convos, and see 'The doghouse' threads. There is an aggressive subset of posters who call their aggression 'passion' and beat every poster over the head with their experience of working with rescues.

Seriously, I thought I was a dog lover. I really did. But even for a dog lover, those posters' posts are enough to turn me off.

Why don't you take on board the comments you complain of, and treat posters with a bit of the respect you seem to reserve for the dogs?

I am glad to hear that you were not flamed, Misdee, but that may be because you were not an "unknown" like the OP.

Or because your reasons were more acceptable to some of the other posters.

And I am going to look at the puppy this evening (maybe I am wrong but very excited...)

I am a serial lurker in the Doghouse as current circumstance don't allow me to consider a dog.

But - before I read stuff on here I, admittedly naively, had no idea that and why buying/getting as a gift a puppy from a friendly neighbour whose bitch had had a litter, was a bad idea. I would have thought that was perfectly ok. Equally, giving puppies away to people you consider to be 'nice people' - whatever that is anyway.

FWIW, I grew up with rescue dogs, one was a phantastic pet, the other was a biter which we had not been made aware of before getting him. There was no support, no back-up and no follow-up. In the end, we took him back to the rescue. Who admittedly took him back. I have never, ever felt as bad as when I had to lead the resisting dog back to the kennels .

Having said that, I can only imagine how strongly people who are involved in animal/dog rescue must feels about naive numpties like me.

Whenever the time comes that I will think seriously about having a dog again, I will come for advice to the Doghouse, because I know the advice will be in the dog's best interest. Are we not all Big Girls here (and Boys) who can take a bit of being shown the error of our ways??

Pacific
We got our dog from a local woman. It would never have occurred to me that this was not a good idea. Now I know, I would be more cautious.

Which is why I am saying that we need to be less contentious on this topic. I think it is fab that there are so many posters willing to educate others on the best way to find or rehome a dog.

But if people are nervous about posting on TheDoghouse, they are not going to benefit from that advice.

Fair 'nuff, MmeL. Just because I have rhino skin, doesn't mean to say everybody has to have one too .

I am pretty tough, Pacific.

And if need be, I have lots of chocolate to cheer myself up.

Don't rub it in...

Of course there are some lovely pet owners out there who have bought privately, and of course there are no guarantees that people wont lie at homecheck - but i have experience of both and know which one i wouldnt do again!!!
I bought a pup 3 years ago from a BYB - (naively and regretably) - she wasnt from a reputable breeder - her living conditions were appalling and she was a petrified wreck at 11 weeks old - hence why i couldnt leave her there - i see now that by buying her i have probably encouraged the horrible man to have subsequent litters! He also had lots of other working breeds for sale. This dog i bought has got so many issues which i attribute to her poor start and despite spending a lot of money on training she still has these issues. I have learned to accept her for what she is and work around her issues - which does limit us quite substantially. If she were a dog looking for a home i dont think even the best rescue would find anyone who would want her - but we love her.
Then - when she was a year old we started fostering for a lovely rescue - partly to try to get our dog used to other dogs in an environment we could manage (very successfully). We have now fostered 27 dogs and 9 rabbits and spend a lot of time engaging with vile pound ladies who have no hearts and plenty of people who hand their dogs over to us as they have not really considered the long term impactof having a dog - or whose puppy is no longer cute when its chewing their furniture and pooing on their cream carpets - or is simply being replaced as it is no longer a puppy!!
I am not against sensible breeding - where they have waiting lists and only breed when they do - where they don not have multiple litters and live in sheds - and will offer lifelong back-up.
Neither am i flaming the OP - i am offering her the benifit of my experiences.
Of course i am not saying that all BYB pups will have the issues that mine have - and i know i was just unlucky - also rescue dogs can come with issues - i have experience of that too - but with rescue back-up its a hell of a lot easier to cope with! Actually i have never met a dog with so many issues as mine - and by the way she is KC registered - so thats never a guarantee of any breeding standards or living conditions!
I have now subsequently adopted an approx 9yr old rescue dog - who lived for many years in appalling conditions and was a petrified wreck when i got him in November - he is now the happiest, most well adapted, loyal loving friend i could ever wish for!
When people ask for advice on here they should respect other peoples experiences - as in the whole i think people offer constuctive advice - and everything thats been said on this thread has imo been for the future welfare of the pups - not to flame the op.